Quote:Better route running gets you more wide "open" and away from defenders better which at that point if the football is then thrown to you quicker with an accurate pass (Bortles) you have a better chance to catch it. I'm betting that some of the passes that were credited as drops to Hill in NY were situations where there wasn't much separation due to poor route running and even though they were catchable passes by rule, the DB was in position to make a quick contesting of the pass or knock it out of Hill's hands.
Keep ignoring the logic...
Quote:45. OK, I never said anything that would allude to the fact that I believe he would only catch 50% of the balls thrown to him, so again, I know you need to try to put words in my mouth to have a shot at sounding intelligent, but please refrain as it is a disingenuous tactic.
In 2 years he had 9 drops? He only caught 45 passes. So... Let's see 54 total... That means hill drops about 17% of all passes thrown his way.
Furthermore he played more snaps than any other wide receiver on the jets this preseason. You say its the jets fault but how are guys like Jeremy Kerley, David Nelson and Jalen Saunders beating him out?
Kerley has been with the jets since 2011. His whole professional career. So how is a guy like that outproducing hill? Kerley seems to have been developed just fine and doesn't have these freakish physical stats you can't teach.
Weird.
You realize there are sites out there that track this stuff so you don't have to make up lies?
Per SportingCharts.com
In 2013, Hill had 58 targets (or passes thrown his way) and 1 drop. 1.7 drop%.
In 2012, Hill had 47 targets (or passes thrown his way) and 5 drops. 10.6 drop%.
TMD is a first ballot lock for the Troll Hall of Fame.. 25 pages of pounding the table for a guy he admits has stone hands, is injury prone and cannot run routes because he believes Jerry Sullivan is a miracle worker.
Quote:Furthermore he played more snaps than any other wide receiver on the jets this preseason. You say its the jets fault but how are guys like Jeremy Kerley, David Nelson and Jalen Saunders beating him out?
Kerley has been with the jets since 2011. His whole professional career. So how is a guy like that outproducing hill? Kerley seems to have been developed just fine and doesn't have these freakish physical stats you can't teach.
Weird.
Some low ceiling guys can max their potential anywhere. Some high ceiling guys need the perfect situation and/or coach to max their potential. I'm getting the feeling that you are in your teens and have never see or paid attention to players that succeed in new atmospheres and with new staffs.
How can you guys keep misrepresenting our point? Our point has always been that working with Sullivan might turn the big, fast, athletic athlete into a relevant football player. He doesn't have to come in and be Jimmy Smith for it to make it worth it, he just has to be relevant.
Quote:You realize there are sites out there that track this stuff so you don't have to make up lies?
Per SportingCharts.com
In 2013, Hill had 58 targets (or passes thrown his way) and 1 drop. 1.7 drop%.
In 2012, Hill had 47 targets (or passes thrown his way) and 5 drops. 10.6 drop%.
Well to be fair, I guess he was going off the 9 number that I had heard credited to Hill for drop total (I think it was from rotoworld).
If your info up there is more credible though, it would make Hill even more appealing as a waiver claim. Thats only 6 drops.
Quote:
How can you guys keep misrepresenting our point? Our point has always been that working with Sullivan might turn the big, fast, athletic athlete into a relevant football player. He doesn't have to come in and be Jimmy Smith for it to make it worth it, he just has to be relevant.
Yep, in the end, he just has to pretty much be better than the guy he's replacing (which would assumingly be Mike Brown)
Not exactly a tall order there.
This thread will be funny to look at if the Jags indeed do claim Hill and watch all the same people so vehemently and consistently against the idea of signing him either flip flop or keep their heels dug into the sand on the Hill addition.
.gif "Laughing")
Quote:Yep, in the end, he just has to pretty much be better than the guy he's replacing (which would assumingly be Mike Brown)
Not exactly a tall order there.
Right, but he was using Catches + Drops = Targets (aka balls thrown his way). That is far from the truth. Geno threw a lot of un-catchable balls his way that are not drops.
Where is the uproar about Cecil Shorts and his drops? 66 catches, 124 targets, 10 drops.
Quote:Right, but he was using Catches + Drops = Targets (aka balls thrown his way). That is far from the truth. Geno threw a lot of un-catchable balls his way that are not drops.
Where is the uproar about Cecil Shorts and his drops? 66 catches, 124 targets, 10 drops.
Ahhhh, gotcha. I didn't think of it that way regarding point 1.......but thats typical for Achilles. Not exactly the most ethical when he argues his side of an arguement....
And BOOM goes the dynamite!!!! with that 2nd point. :yes:
They all seem to LOVE Shorts despite his briefcase hands.
Quote:Right, but he was using Catches + Drops = Targets (aka balls thrown his way). That is far from the truth. Geno threw a lot of un-catchable balls his way that are not drops.
Where is the uproar about Cecil Shorts and his drops? 66 catches, 124 targets, 10 drops.
Catches plus credited drops would be the proper way to do it. If I was to add in all the badly thrown balls to the equation then his numbers would have looked atrocious. There is no reason to bring uncatchable balls into the equation. That's why I didn't even consider it.
Quote:Ahhhh, gotcha. I didn't think of it that way regarding point 1.......but thats typical for Achilles. Not exactly the most ethical when he argues his side of an arguement....
And BOOM goes the dynamite!!!! with that 2nd point. :yes:
They all seem to LOVE Shorts despite his briefcase hands.
Saying 'briefcase hands' repeatedly is not going to make it a thing
Quote:Right, but he was using Catches + Drops = Targets (aka balls thrown his way). That is far from the truth. Geno threw a lot of un-catchable balls his way that are not drops.
Where is the uproar about Cecil Shorts and his drops? 66 catches, 124 targets, 10 drops.
You mean the uproar about Marcedes Lewis aka "giraffe with briefcase hands"? A certain poster rags and bags on Marcedes for his drops but bangs the table for Hill?
I get it now.
Quote:Ahhhh, gotcha. I didn't think of it that way regarding point 1.......but thats typical for Achilles. Not exactly the most ethical when he argues his side of an arguement....
And BOOM goes the dynamite!!!! with that 2nd point. :yes:
They all seem to LOVE Shorts despite his briefcase hands.
Even with his drop he still caught 12% more of the passes thrown his way than Hill
Quote:Catches plus credited drops would be the proper way to do it. If I was to add in all the badly thrown balls to the equation then his numbers would have looked atrocious. There is no reason to bring uncatchable balls into the equation. That's why I didn't even consider it.
Ok, well using your equation, here are the numbers SportingChart gives for Hill and Shorts for their career:
Hill: 45 catches, 6 drops. 6 / 54 = 11.1%
Shorts: 123 catches, 18 drops. = 12.8%
Shorts is our what....#1 or #2 WR? Hill would only have to come in and be our #4 or #5 WR to make it worth the flier. You already said that Sullivan can teach "routes, timing, where to line up, soft spots in coverage
", so if you're only concern is hands then you must want to cut Shorts too, right?
Quote:Even with his drop he still caught 12% more of the passes thrown his way than Hill
That is a terrible stat to compare across teams. Do you know how many "targets" Geno Smith threw that were uncatchable or easily defended by the DB? You don't blame the WR for those.
Quote:You mean the uproar about Marcedes Lewis aka "giraffe with briefcase hands"? A certain poster rags and bags on Marcedes for his drops but bangs the table for Hill?
I get it now.
Well, If Marcedes only had a contract like Hill's instead of being one of the highest paid $$$$ at his position, then I wouldn't bash on him so much about it.
Quote:Ok, well using your equation, here are the numbers SportingChart gives for Hill and Shorts for their career:
Hill: 45 catches, 6 drops. 6 / 54 = 11.1%
Shorts: 123 catches, 18 drops. = 12.8%
Shorts is our what....#1 or #2 WR? Hill would only have to come in and be our #4 or #5 WR to make it worth the flier. You already said that Sullivan can teach "routes, timing, where to line up, soft spots in coverage", so if you're only concern is hands then you must want to cut Shorts too, right?
Why would not wanting to sign hill off of waivers mean that I want to cut shorts?
Hill averages about 2 catches a game. He scored two touchdowns in his debut and only scored twice more in 22 games. Its just incredibly bad production.
Anyway, I already said that if hill was a free agent I'd give it a shot but not when the season starts in a week. If there is an injury or something then it would make sense but the guys on the team right now know the offense and have earned it.
Quote:Well, If Marcedes only had a contract like Hill's instead of being one of the highest paid $$$$ at his position, then I wouldn't bash on him so much about it.
Why does his contract matter? You've told me specifically in this thread that the Jags have enough cap space.
![[Image: troll-dancing-smiley-emoticon.gif]](http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/trollface/troll-dancing-smiley-emoticon.gif)