(12-27-2019, 02:08 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-26-2019, 11:32 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You must have missed the testimony during the house hearings. It was a recurring thing. Trump didn't care about any specifics of Ukraine's corruption and didn't even know what an investigation should look like. He wanted an announcement of an investigation, in the American media, nothing more. That's propaganda.
He didn't do what every other President in living memory would have done in the situation. Including Nixon. So "somebody" is an awful lot of people.
Notice how the left is pontificating about "caring" "feeling" etc.
Rational people focus on standards of suspicion & probable cause.
The man lost 7 billion dollars in aid money and enriched his family. Did any of the opinion witnesses locate our 7 billion dollars? Did the explain the path of the money from burisma through 4 countries to hunter biden? Dud they explain why joe biden lied about the status of the investigation for the last half decade? Did they call John Kerry's son to have him recount that he cut his business ties with biden because Burisma smelled so bad?
The idea that the chief executive wouldn't be concerned about corruption that specifically targeted HIS campaign with propaganda and got his campaign manager thrown in jail is asinine.
U dont care about an ambassador admitting in open court that she allowed Ukrainian election interference. U dont care that fiona hill worked with Christopher steel. U dont care that bill Taylor did work for NGO's funded by burisma. You dont care that George Kent testified that he himself had to cancel planned projects with Burisma because of the appearance of a conflict of interest. U dont care that it's part of the open record that ukrainian sources contributed to the propaganda used to spy on the trump campaign. U dont care that the head of the nbu in ukrain was convicted of election interference (let off because of the statute of limitations) . U dont care that the chief executive has a DUTY under a treaty with ukrain to report corruption.
The only thing you care about is #orangemanbad
Which man? I have no idea what you're talking about in this paragraph.
Ukrainians wanted Paul Manafort in jail. This is not news. A word of advice: if you ever decide to spend decades of your life living in other countries and running political campaigns that are designed to make one half of that country hate the other half, expect to make enemies! Make sure that every other aspect of your life is on the up and up! It's never a good idea to cheat on your taxes or embezzle money from mobsters, but especially don't cheat on your taxes or embezzle mobster funds when you have so many enemies in so many countries...
I have never understood why Trump supporters use the word "spy" so much. When the Patriots tried to get the Rams' play call signals, that was spying. The Rams were the Patriots' enemy. The Patriots were using deceit and trickery to get information that the Rams did not want them to have. When the NFL went and investigated all of that, that was not spying. The refs are not the enemy. The league officials are not the enemy. Enforcing the rules is not spying.
Similarly, the FBI was not the Trump campaign's enemy. The other campaigns were. To the extent that the FBI gathered information from the Trump campaign, they did not share that information with the Clinton campaign or any other enemy of the Trump campaign.
(12-27-2019, 10:36 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2019, 02:08 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Notice how the left is pontificating about "caring" "feeling" etc.
Rational people focus on standards of suspicion & probable cause.
The man lost 7 billion dollars in aid money and enriched his family. Did any of the opinion witnesses locate our 7 billion dollars? Did the explain the path of the money from burisma through 4 countries to hunter biden? Dud they explain why joe biden lied about the status of the investigation for the last half decade? Did they call John Kerry's son to have him recount that he cut his business ties with biden because Burisma smelled so bad?
The idea that the chief executive wouldn't be concerned about corruption that specifically targeted HIS campaign with propaganda and got his campaign manager thrown in jail is asinine.
U dont care about an ambassador admitting in open court that she allowed Ukrainian election interference. U dont care that fiona hill worked with Christopher steel. U dont care that bill Taylor did work for NGO's funded by burisma. You dont care that George Kent testified that he himself had to cancel planned projects with Burisma because of the appearance of a conflict of interest. U dont care that it's part of the open record that ukrainian sources contributed to the propaganda used to spy on the trump campaign. U dont care that the head of the nbu in ukrain was convicted of election interference (let off because of the statute of limitations) . U dont care that the chief executive has a DUTY under a treaty with ukrain to report corruption.
The only thing you care about is #orangemanbad
Similarly, the FBI was not the Trump campaign's enemy.
Hahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!
(12-27-2019, 10:36 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2019, 02:08 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Notice how the left is pontificating about "caring" "feeling" etc.
Rational people focus on standards of suspicion & probable cause.
The man lost 7 billion dollars in aid money and enriched his family. Did any of the opinion witnesses locate our 7 billion dollars? Did the explain the path of the money from burisma through 4 countries to hunter biden? Dud they explain why joe biden lied about the status of the investigation for the last half decade? Did they call John Kerry's son to have him recount that he cut his business ties with biden because Burisma smelled so bad?
The idea that the chief executive wouldn't be concerned about corruption that specifically targeted HIS campaign with propaganda and got his campaign manager thrown in jail is asinine.
U dont care about an ambassador admitting in open court that she allowed Ukrainian election interference. U dont care that fiona hill worked with Christopher steel. U dont care that bill Taylor did work for NGO's funded by burisma. You dont care that George Kent testified that he himself had to cancel planned projects with Burisma because of the appearance of a conflict of interest. U dont care that it's part of the open record that ukrainian sources contributed to the propaganda used to spy on the trump campaign. U dont care that the head of the nbu in ukrain was convicted of election interference (let off because of the statute of limitations) . U dont care that the chief executive has a DUTY under a treaty with ukrain to report corruption.
The only thing you care about is #orangemanbad
Which man? I have no idea what you're talking about in this paragraph.
Then You're not qualified to pretend to have an opinion on the subject.
Ukrainians wanted Paul Manafort in jail. This is not news. A word of advice: if you ever decide to spend decades of your life living in other countries and running political campaigns that are designed to make one half of that country hate the other half, expect to make enemies! Make sure that every other aspect of your life is on the up and up! It's never a good idea to cheat on your taxes or embezzle money from mobsters, but especially don't cheat on your taxes or embezzle mobster funds when you have so many enemies in so many countries...
So when other countries FABRICATE EVIDENCE (black ledger) about a REPUBLICAN: hey that's just how the game is played! Go big or go home! When Republican wants the TRUTH about said fabrication: ABUSE OF POWER IMPEACH IMPEACH!!!
I have never understood why Trump supporters use the word "spy" so much. When the Patriots tried to get the Rams' play call signals, that was spying. The Rams were the Patriots' enemy. The Patriots were using deceit and trickery to get information that the Rams did not want them to have. When the NFL went and investigated all of that, that was not spying. The refs are not the enemy. The league officials are not the enemy. Enforcing the rules is not spying.
Similarly, the FBI was not the Trump campaign's enemy. The other campaigns were. To the extent that the FBI gathered information from the Trump campaign, they did not share that information with the Clinton campaign or any other enemy of the Trump campaign.
Have u been paying attention? The FBI fabricated evidence, spied on the campaign, leaked details about the investigation to the Clinton campaign, then helped leak the dossier when their election interference failed! Pay attention!
(12-27-2019, 11:02 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2019, 10:36 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Which man? I have no idea what you're talking about in this paragraph.
Then You're not qualified to pretend to have an opinion on the subject.
Ukrainians wanted Paul Manafort in jail. This is not news. A word of advice: if you ever decide to spend decades of your life living in other countries and running political campaigns that are designed to make one half of that country hate the other half, expect to make enemies! Make sure that every other aspect of your life is on the up and up! It's never a good idea to cheat on your taxes or embezzle money from mobsters, but especially don't cheat on your taxes or embezzle mobster funds when you have so many enemies in so many countries...
So when other countries FABRICATE EVIDENCE (black ledger) about a REPUBLICAN: hey that's just how the game is played! Go big or go home! When Republican wants the TRUTH about said fabrication: ABUSE OF POWER IMPEACH IMPEACH!!!
I have never understood why Trump supporters use the word "spy" so much. When the Patriots tried to get the Rams' play call signals, that was spying. The Rams were the Patriots' enemy. The Patriots were using deceit and trickery to get information that the Rams did not want them to have. When the NFL went and investigated all of that, that was not spying. The refs are not the enemy. The league officials are not the enemy. Enforcing the rules is not spying.
Similarly, the FBI was not the Trump campaign's enemy. The other campaigns were. To the extent that the FBI gathered information from the Trump campaign, they did not share that information with the Clinton campaign or any other enemy of the Trump campaign.
Have u been paying attention? The FBI fabricated evidence, spied on the campaign, leaked details about the investigation to the Clinton campaign, then helped leak the dossier when their election interference failed! Pay attention!
The guy cheated on his taxes for about a decade. The FBI was investigating it in 2014. The black ledger turns up in 2016. Maybe the black ledger influenced the investigation. Maybe not. But it wasn't admitted in court, right? Manafort is in jail because there was plenty of credible evidence against him, regardless of if the black ledger is authentic or not.
(12-27-2019, 05:54 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2019, 11:02 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Have u been paying attention? The FBI fabricated evidence, spied on the campaign, leaked details about the investigation to the Clinton campaign, then helped leak the dossier when their election interference failed! Pay attention!
The guy cheated on his taxes for about a decade. The FBI was investigating it in 2014. The black ledger turns up in 2016. Maybe the black ledger influenced the investigation. Maybe not. But it wasn't admitted in court, right? Manafort is in jail because there was plenty of credible evidence against him, regardless of if the black ledger is authentic or not.
That WAS a case of a dormant investigation. It had already been looked @ by the FBI and given a pass. That's before he became the mark for the Russia Hoax. Generally, candidates are given defensive briefings "hey, u dont have access to the power of the state so let's make u aware that these two or three people may be a problem." Thats a far cry from "we've looked at this, there's not much impetus for further investigation, let's solicit fabricated evidence for a headline.
Not to mention, the veracity of the prosecution was ancillary to the original intent: to have Trumps campaign manager resign in disgrace softening the political battlefield to advance the russia narrative.
Notice Trump asks for an investigation, that Zelensky on the call would be open and honest, u think that's a crime. The administration Biden was a part of solicits fabricated evidence from both Ukrain and Russia with money from the DNC and that doesnt register to u.... @ all.
For anyone watching, this is why the articles are being held up! The narrative only makes sense in a vacuum when people dont realize Joe Biden was responsible for overseeing over 7 billion dollars in US aid that's not accounted for. They don't want you to actually see the documents where Ukrainian officials flagged over 5 billion dollars in money laundering. They dont want you to see Biden routing money through four countries. They dont want you to see Ulrainian officials convicted of helping Hillary, or hear the tapes. They dont want you to see John Kerry's don admit he thought the whole thing smelled. They don't want you to see American ambassadors instructing Ukrainian prosecutors not th o investigate billions of dollars in misappropriated funds. They dont want you to see the testimony by ukrainian officials that joe biden directed the firing to protect his son.
#orangemanbad...hemakecall
(12-27-2019, 06:23 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2019, 05:54 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]The guy cheated on his taxes for about a decade. The FBI was investigating it in 2014. The black ledger turns up in 2016. Maybe the black ledger influenced the investigation. Maybe not. But it wasn't admitted in court, right? Manafort is in jail because there was plenty of credible evidence against him, regardless of if the black ledger is authentic or not.
That WAS a case of a dormant investigation. It had already been looked @ by the FBI and given a pass. That's before he became the mark for the Russia Hoax. Generally, candidates are given defensive briefings "hey, u dont have access to the power of the state so let's make u aware that these two or three people may be a problem." Thats a far cry from "we've looked at this, there's not much impetus for further investigation, let's solicit fabricated evidence for a headline.
Not to mention, the veracity of the prosecution was ancillary to the original intent: to have Trumps campaign manager resign in disgrace softening the political battlefield to advance the russia narrative.
Notice Trump asks for an investigation, that Zelensky on the call would be open and honest, u think that's a crime. The administration Biden was a part of solicits fabricated evidence from both Ukrain and Russia with money from the DNC and that doesnt register to u.... @ all.
For anyone watching, this is why the articles are being held up! The narrative only makes sense in a vacuum when people dont realize Joe Biden was responsible for overseeing over 7 billion dollars in US aid that's not accounted for. They don't want you to actually see the documents where Ukrainian officials flagged over 5 billion dollars in money laundering. They dont want you to see Biden routing money through four countries. They dont want you to see Ulrainian officials convicted of helping Hillary, or hear the tapes. They dont want you to see John Kerry's don admit he thought the whole thing smelled. They don't want you to see American ambassadors instructing Ukrainian prosecutors not th o investigate billions of dollars in misappropriated funds. They dont want you to see the testimony by ukrainian officials that joe biden directed the firing to protect his son.
#orangemanbad...hemakecall
You don't think Trump got defensive briefings?
You think someone in our government asked for Ukraine to fabricate evidence? Why? Who? Remember lots of people in Ukraine had motives to get Manafort put in jail.
As for the other stuff, missing money, routed through four countries.. it doesn't register because it doesn't sound credible. My reaction to all this type of stuff is "big if true". Is Fox News picking up these stories? Not that I've seen.
(12-27-2019, 07:08 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2019, 06:23 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]That WAS a case of a dormant investigation. It had already been looked @ by the FBI and given a pass. That's before he became the mark for the Russia Hoax. Generally, candidates are given defensive briefings "hey, u dont have access to the power of the state so let's make u aware that these two or three people may be a problem." Thats a far cry from "we've looked at this, there's not much impetus for further investigation, let's solicit fabricated evidence for a headline.
Not to mention, the veracity of the prosecution was ancillary to the original intent: to have Trumps campaign manager resign in disgrace softening the political battlefield to advance the russia narrative.
Notice Trump asks for an investigation, that Zelensky on the call would be open and honest, u think that's a crime. The administration Biden was a part of solicits fabricated evidence from both Ukrain and Russia with money from the DNC and that doesnt register to u.... @ all.
For anyone watching, this is why the articles are being held up! The narrative only makes sense in a vacuum when people dont realize Joe Biden was responsible for overseeing over 7 billion dollars in US aid that's not accounted for. They don't want you to actually see the documents where Ukrainian officials flagged over 5 billion dollars in money laundering. They dont want you to see Biden routing money through four countries. They dont want you to see Ulrainian officials convicted of helping Hillary, or hear the tapes. They dont want you to see John Kerry's don admit he thought the whole thing smelled. They don't want you to see American ambassadors instructing Ukrainian prosecutors not th o investigate billions of dollars in misappropriated funds. They dont want you to see the testimony by ukrainian officials that joe biden directed the firing to protect his son.
#orangemanbad...hemakecall
You don't think Trump got defensive briefings?
... just shaking my head... wow...
You think someone in our government asked for Ukraine to fabricate evidence? Why? Who? Remember lots of people in Ukraine had motives to get Manafort put in jail.
Chalupa and a female fbi agent. I forget her name @ the moment.
As for the other stuff, missing money, routed through four countries.. it doesn't register because it doesn't sound credible. My reaction to all this type of stuff is "big if true". Is Fox News picking up these stories? Not that I've seen.
Documentary evidence doesnt need to "sound" credible. It has to be verifiable.
(12-27-2019, 11:02 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2019, 10:36 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Which man? I have no idea what you're talking about in this paragraph.
Then You're not qualified to pretend to have an opinion on the subject.
Ukrainians wanted Paul Manafort in jail. This is not news. A word of advice: if you ever decide to spend decades of your life living in other countries and running political campaigns that are designed to make one half of that country hate the other half, expect to make enemies! Make sure that every other aspect of your life is on the up and up! It's never a good idea to cheat on your taxes or embezzle money from mobsters, but especially don't cheat on your taxes or embezzle mobster funds when you have so many enemies in so many countries...
So when other countries FABRICATE EVIDENCE (black ledger) about a REPUBLICAN: hey that's just how the game is played! Go big or go home! When Republican wants the TRUTH about said fabrication: ABUSE OF POWER IMPEACH IMPEACH!!!
I have never understood why Trump supporters use the word "spy" so much. When the Patriots tried to get the Rams' play call signals, that was spying. The Rams were the Patriots' enemy. The Patriots were using deceit and trickery to get information that the Rams did not want them to have. When the NFL went and investigated all of that, that was not spying. The refs are not the enemy. The league officials are not the enemy. Enforcing the rules is not spying.
Similarly, the FBI was not the Trump campaign's enemy. The other campaigns were. To the extent that the FBI gathered information from the Trump campaign, they did not share that information with the Clinton campaign or any other enemy of the Trump campaign.
Have u been paying attention? The FBI fabricated evidence, spied on the campaign, leaked details about the investigation to the Clinton campaign, then helped leak the dossier when their election interference failed! Pay attention!
None of this is true. You're a duped Trumpette who spouts the [BLEEP] like a good Nazi..
Pathetic.
If Joe or Hunter Biden got their hands into even a fraction of this missing 5 billion dollars... they would have moved to Switzerland or Panama a long time ago! Raking in even 1 percent of that action amounts to 50 million dollars. One thing that a guy who just got his hands on 50 million dollars would never do is accept a sketchy board position for $600,000 a year. Guys who accept offers like that are still trying to build their way up into "don't need a job" wealth status. Guys who have that status already are looking for image-enhancing jobs where they can donate or decline the salary.
(12-27-2019, 11:29 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2019, 11:02 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Have u been paying attention? The FBI fabricated evidence, spied on the campaign, leaked details about the investigation to the Clinton campaign, then helped leak the dossier when their election interference failed! Pay attention!
None of this is true. You're a duped Trumpette who spouts the [BLEEP] like a good Nazi..
Pathetic.
Way to set an example "Administrator"
(12-27-2019, 11:29 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2019, 11:02 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Have u been paying attention? The FBI fabricated evidence, spied on the campaign, leaked details about the investigation to the Clinton campaign, then helped leak the dossier when their election interference failed! Pay attention!
None of this is true. You're a duped Trumpette who spouts the [BLEEP] like a good Nazi..
Pathetic.
Actually... national socialism doesnt align with the right of the political spectrum because... oh nevermind.
(12-28-2019, 12:00 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]If Joe or Hunter Biden got their hands into even a fraction of this missing 5 billion dollars... they would have moved to Switzerland or Panama a long time ago! Raking in even 1 percent of that action amounts to 50 million dollars. One thing that a guy who just got his hands on 50 million dollars would never do is accept a sketchy board position for $600,000 a year. Guys who accept offers like that are still trying to build their way up into "don't need a job" wealth status. Guys who have that status already are looking for image-enhancing jobs where they can donate or decline the salary.
It was 83k a month not 50.
For him & his business partner Devine archer. There is no standard commission for international money laundering, just missing money & a no show job.
Sounds like a mod on here should read Don Jr's new book "Triggered".
(12-27-2019, 11:29 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-27-2019, 11:02 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Have u been paying attention? The FBI fabricated evidence, spied on the campaign, leaked details about the investigation to the Clinton campaign, then helped leak the dossier when their election interference failed! Pay attention!
None of this is true. You're a duped Trumpette who spouts the [BLEEP] like a good Nazi..
Pathetic.
It's TRUE that Joe Bribum wont comply with a Senate subpoena. Almost like he has something to hide.
(12-28-2019, 12:13 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-27-2019, 11:29 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]None of this is true. You're a duped Trumpette who spouts the [BLEEP] like a good Nazi..
Pathetic.
Actually... national socialism doesnt align with the right of the political spectrum because... oh nevermind.
Nazi is a state of mind, not an ideology. Socialism or communism are ideologies. A Nazi doesn't care about how much of the economy is under the government's control. A Nazi just wants all government power to be invested in a strong dictator, and he will call you unpatriotic or worse if you dare say anything bad about the leader, and God help if you're not the same religion or ethnicity as the leader..
(12-28-2019, 10:43 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2019, 12:13 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]
Actually... national socialism doesnt align with the right of the political spectrum because... oh nevermind.
Nazi is a state of mind, not an ideology. Socialism or communism are ideologies. A Nazi doesn't care about how much of the economy is under the government's control. A Nazi just wants all government power to be invested in a strong dictator, and he will call you unpatriotic or worse if you dare say anything bad about the leader, and God help if you're not the same religion or ethnicity as the leader..
A. Foolish.
B. There are no Nazis here and RJ should walk that post back.
Biden's answer about testifying is bizarre. He claims he will defy a subpoena because the media would spend 3 weeks covering everything Biden said and Trump would get away. That sounds like an admission of guilt. Why would your best buddies in the media cover it unless you were guilty? And why would Trump get away unless you were guilty?
(12-28-2019, 11:47 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2019, 10:43 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Nazi is a state of mind, not an ideology. Socialism or communism are ideologies. A Nazi doesn't care about how much of the economy is under the government's control. A Nazi just wants all government power to be invested in a strong dictator, and he will call you unpatriotic or worse if you dare say anything bad about the leader, and God help if you're not the same religion or ethnicity as the leader..
A. Foolish.
B. There are no Nazis here and RJ should walk that post back.
RJ didn't call JJ a Nazi. He said he was behaving like a Nazi. Making up or parroting as many useful lies as can be imagined to create a fiction in which the dear leader does no wrong, and where anyone who says he does wrong are actually the ones doing wrong.
Thankfully JJ has not scapegoated any ethnic or racial minorities yet, but he is playing the propaganda game the way the Nazis would.
(12-28-2019, 01:20 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (12-28-2019, 01:05 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]RJ didn't call JJ a Nazi. He said he was behaving like a Nazi. Making up or parroting as many useful lies as can be imagined to create a fiction in which the dear leader does no wrong, and where anyone who says he does wrong are actually the ones doing wrong.
Thankfully JJ has not scapegoated any ethnic or racial minorities yet, but he is playing the propaganda game the way the Nazis would.
1. He did call jj a Nazi. "Like a good Nazi" implies that the person is already a Nazi.
2. Nazi isn't a "state of mind" it was a political/economic system.
3. JJ isn't paroting "useful lies," he's making true statements. That fact that your MSNBC-addled brain doesn't recognize them is your problem, not his.
Nah, let it ride. It’s that level of spittle-flecked childish name-calling which undermines their argument better than any opposing view.
(12-28-2019, 12:39 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]Biden's answer about testifying is bizarre. He claims he will defy a subpoena because the media would spend 3 weeks covering everything Biden said and Trump would get away. That sounds like an admission of guilt. Why would your best buddies in the media cover it unless you were guilty? And why would Trump get away unless you were guilty?
Rational words sound bizarre to bizarre people.
The prosecution goes first.
After the prosecution rests, the defense has its turn.
Does that sound rational or bizarre to you?
I hope it was rational because the next part is like it but just a little more complicated... If the people subpoenaed by the prosecution show up to answer questions under oath, the people subpoenaed by the defense should do the same.
However, if the prosecution does not get a fair response to its subpoenas, neither should the defense.
So, practically, Biden has no obligation to respond if Bolton and Mulvaney and Pompeo do not respond.