I checked on it. I see huffing and puffing about the whistleblower, as if it matters who the whistleblower is, and a claim that Trump withheld aid from many countries besides Ukraine. This is an equivocation. Congress was notified about aid being withheld from other countries, and the reasons given were in each case national rather than personal or partisan.
More lies. Sad!
(01-25-2020, 05:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I checked on it. I see huffing and puffing about the whistleblower, as if it matters who the whistleblower is, and a claim that Trump withheld aid from many countries besides Ukraine. This is an equivocation. Congress was notified about aid being withheld from other countries, and the reasons given were in each case national rather than personal or partisan.
More lies. Sad!
I'm personally offended. I've spent a lot of time and effort trying to explain the ICA to u. I've patiently and meticulously laid out the probable cause against the bidens. I've repeatedly given u the basic requirements to establish corrupt intent. But u still post garbage like this. I want an apology.
If u hate the guy fine. Donate it volunteer against him in november. This kind of willful ignorance and undermining democracy has no place in this republic.
(01-25-2020, 07:26 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]As I was saying...
You said I'd wait until I got my talking points from Nancy.
I didn't. I read a couple of articles that Nancy wasn't quoted in, one of them was a Fox News article, then I formed my own opinion about it. Has Nancy said anything today? I have no idea.
(01-25-2020, 07:58 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 05:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I checked on it. I see huffing and puffing about the whistleblower, as if it matters who the whistleblower is, and a claim that Trump withheld aid from many countries besides Ukraine. This is an equivocation. Congress was notified about aid being withheld from other countries, and the reasons given were in each case national rather than personal or partisan.
More lies. Sad!
I'm personally offended. I've spent a lot of time and effort trying to explain the ICA to u. I've patiently and meticulously laid out the probable cause against the bidens. I've repeatedly given u the basic requirements to establish corrupt intent. But u still post garbage like this. I want an apology.
If u hate the guy fine. Donate it volunteer against him in november. This kind of willful ignorance and undermining democracy has no place in this republic.
Why would you be personally offended? I know nothing about you personally. This couldn't be about either of us personally.
I've also laid out repetitive arguments that you reject. No skin off my back, though.
(01-25-2020, 09:46 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 09:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You said I'd wait until I got my talking points from Nancy.
I didn't. I read a couple of articles that Nancy wasn't quoted in, one of them was a Fox News article, then I formed my own opinion about it. Has Nancy said anything today? I have no idea.
Why would you be personally offended? I know nothing about you personally. This couldn't be about either of us personally.
I've also laid out repetitive arguments that you reject. No skin off my back, though.
So you didn't watch it.
Nah. I've got better stuff to do with my time.
(01-25-2020, 10:11 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 05:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I checked on it. I see huffing and puffing about the whistleblower, as if it matters who the whistleblower is, and a claim that Trump withheld aid from many countries besides Ukraine. This is an equivocation. Congress was notified about aid being withheld from other countries, and the reasons given were in each case national rather than personal or partisan.
More lies. Sad!
(01-25-2020, 09:33 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]You said I'd wait until I got my talking points from Nancy.
I didn't. I read a couple of articles that Nancy wasn't quoted in, one of them was a Fox News article, then I formed my own opinion about it. Has Nancy said anything today? I have no idea.
Are you claiming that the factoid in red was something you happened to keep in a corner of your mind? Or did you read it somewhere like CNN as refutation (a failed one at that) of today's "many countries" statement? If so, are you confident that Schiff didn't just make it up for them like he has so many other lies?
Well I remember the withholding for Lebanon and the one for Pakistan being in the news, and the administration was quoted in those articles saying it was because they were concerned that bad guys might skim that money/ weapons away. I assume they must have told Congress why, if they told the press why.
But also one of the articles I read today had a quote from Senator Stabenow confirming that Congress was informed in all cases but Ukraine. I guess Debbie is kind of like Nancy. But I digress. Neither Congress nor the oress about Ukraine's aid getting withheld until there was a whistleblower.
So Rick Mulvaney is right. Aid funds are a form of quid pro quo.
(01-25-2020, 07:58 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 05:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I checked on it. I see huffing and puffing about the whistleblower, as if it matters who the whistleblower is, and a claim that Trump withheld aid from many countries besides Ukraine. This is an equivocation. Congress was notified about aid being withheld from other countries, and the reasons given were in each case national rather than personal or partisan.
More lies. Sad!
I'm personally offended. I've spent a lot of time and effort trying to explain the ICA to u. I've patiently and meticulously laid out the probable cause against the bidens. I've repeatedly given u the basic requirements to establish corrupt intent. But u still post garbage like this. I want an apology.
If u hate the guy fine. Donate it volunteer against him in november. This kind of willful ignorance and undermining democracy has no place in this republic.
This is why I can't take the dude seriously.
(01-25-2020, 10:23 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]So Rick Mulvaney is right. Aid funds are a form of quid pro quo.
Of course they are.
We give a quid, so that they'll give us a quo.
But the quo is not supposed to be something personal or partisan. It's supposed to be something for all Americans.
(01-25-2020, 10:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 10:23 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]So Rick Mulvaney is right. Aid funds are a form of quid pro quo.
Of course they are.
We give a quid, so that they'll give us a quo.
But the quo is not supposed to be something personal or partisan. It's supposed to be something for all Americans.
Lol, funny stuff right there.
(01-25-2020, 10:38 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 07:58 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm personally offended. I've spent a lot of time and effort trying to explain the ICA to u. I've patiently and meticulously laid out the probable cause against the bidens. I've repeatedly given u the basic requirements to establish corrupt intent. But u still post garbage like this. I want an apology.
If u hate the guy fine. Donate it volunteer against him in november. This kind of willful ignorance and undermining democracy has no place in this republic.
This is why I can't take the dude seriously.
I don't know who you are either. Not personal.
Both of you seem to think I should view you as experts even though I have no idea what you do for a living or where you learn things.
I at least give links to what I talk about. Stuff from real journalists and real experts.
(01-25-2020, 10:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 10:23 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]So Rick Mulvaney is right. Aid funds are a form of quid pro quo.
Of course they are.
We give a quid, so that they'll give us a quo.
But the quo is not supposed to be something personal or partisan. It's supposed to be something for all Americans.
So the investigation for possible corruption of a leading Presidential candidate whose son received graft dollars - which opens up said Presidential candidate for extortion - is a personal matter?
Has anyone answered why democrats are allowed to investigate Trump under the guise of justice while simultaneously impeaching Trump for wanting an investigation into Biden for the same reasons? Are they not all doing the same thing?
(01-26-2020, 01:04 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Has anyone answered why democrats are allowed to investigate Trump under the guise of justice while simultaneously impeaching Trump for wanting an investigation into Biden for the same reasons? Are they not all doing the same thing?
Because the right conceded the triad of educational, media, and pop-cultural supremacy to progressivism for the last century.
(01-26-2020, 01:04 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Has anyone answered why democrats are allowed to investigate Trump under the guise of justice while simultaneously impeaching Trump for wanting an investigation into Biden for the same reasons? Are they not all doing the same thing?
They are doing it for God and Country, Trump is doing it for Person and Party.
Mikesez truly believes that nonsense.
(01-25-2020, 05:04 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I checked on it. I see huffing and puffing about the whistleblower, as if it matters who the whistleblower is, and a claim that Trump withheld aid from many countries besides Ukraine. This is an equivocation. Congress was notified about aid being withheld from other countries, and the reasons given were in each case national rather than personal or partisan.
More lies. Sad!
The last time I checked, My natural right to confront my accuser trumps a statute pertaining to the actions of the Inspector General. Especially in this case where it is alleged that the leaker would have been a subject in any investigation of the Biden's.
And you know what, you're right. There is no need for me to get personally offended. It is perfectly plausible that you are just incapable of understanding the points that I make or comprehending the level of your own ignorance on certain topics. Silly me, I must have forgotten.
under the 1974 Impoundment Control Act, you don't have to notify congress of a temporary hold if the funds are ultimately going to be spent before the end of the fiscal year. That would have occurred on 9-30-2019. The funds flowed between 9-11-19 and 9-12-19.
As for national interest, foreign aid money is TAX PAYER money. That means that making sure that it is well Spent is in EVERYONES interest. Joe Biden's administration lost 7 billion dollars in aid money to Ukraine. Crimes against the United States are by definition in the NATIONAL INTEREST. (That means everyone's) Potential violations of the Foreign corrupt practices act, (mandating that companies or governments take your son and his roommate as board members) are in the national interest. Extorting a foreign power falls under the same purview. Asking that these potential violations be investigated serves the NATIONAL INTEREST (I'm assuming you know what national means.... If I have to slow down for you please let me know.) There is more than enough probable cause to warrant an investigation. In order to prove CORRUPT INTENT (Corrupt intent means that mean old trump was only doing this to hurt lunch pale joe because he didn't want to get into a push up contest) then you would have to show that no REASONABLE (not never trump sissies) PERSON would see anything wrong with Joe Biden's son and his college roommate taking money from the most corrupt (as designated by the state department under the Obama administration) Oligarch in Ukraine and getting a prosecutor fired.
Now, if you don't understand any part of that then I'm here to help you. I'll answer any question you have. I tried to look for a crayon font but gosh darn it they didn't have one. But just continuing to spout the debunked trite maddow spin is getting embarrassing bruh. How much water can you carry for these people?
(01-25-2020, 10:45 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (01-25-2020, 10:38 PM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]This is why I can't take the dude seriously.
I don't know who you are either. Not personal.
Both of you seem to think I should view you as experts even though I have no idea what you do for a living or where you learn things.
I at least give links to what I talk about. Stuff from real journalists and real experts.
How irrelevant, but consistent. It's a messageboard, bro. No one knows who anyone is. I have two degrees in poli sci and international affairs. I have mentioned this before, but the truth is it doesn't matter. My education is unessential in an argument. It's called appeal to authority. This is true whether I appeal to myself or to any other authority. One could use authority as a weight to tip the scales in favor of a position when making a personal evaluation (all other things being equal), but it is not a metric for truth. You don't seem to get this, despite it having been addressed multiple times.
Even so, JJ constantly links to sources. I used to, before I realized you're a pretentious blowhard that holds everyone else to a different standard than yourself. You stand only on what is convenient to your current argument. I can understand why progressive posters do this: They are operating with a different world view. You don't make this same claim, so your motivation to argue seems to be driven by unearned pompousness. Even after people address every point you make, you just go back to using your original premise to support your position with zero regard to the conversation that came before it.
Imo, you are the most disingenuous person on this board. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that almost everyone on this board has a problem with the way you argue, which should give you pause, but it doesn't. I would much rather be involved in the point/counterpoint parts of these debates, but your involvement renders that moot. So, I instead choose to waste my time berating you. Fortunately for everyone on this board, I only have the stomach to do it in spurts.