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I still like Keenum honestly. The one bad game against the SB champs didnt make me change my mind on him. He was one of the best college QBs of all time and showed a lot of that last year. If the Vikings dont resign him I hope we take a look.
(02-11-2018, 04:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2018, 03:43 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Almost every other teams has higher draft picks and more draft picks since we draft 29th and don't have a 5th rounder. That's truth.
And every year a number of teams find great talent picking in the twenties, and fifties and on and on.
Picking later is not some sort of draft death sentence. There will be upgrades to be had even if the team stays with its current picks.
That's why I said probabilities. Any or all 5 of the things I said could feasibly not turn out against us. It's just probabilities. Odds. Likelihoods. I guess I have to hammer that home since I said it every time but people are acting like I said it's carved in stone.
(02-11-2018, 04:48 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2018, 04:39 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]And every year a number of teams find great talent picking in the twenties, and fifties and on and on.
Picking later is not some sort of draft death sentence. There will be upgrades to be had even if the team stays with its current picks.
That's why I said probabilities. Any or all 5 of the things I said could feasibly not turn out against us. It's just probabilities. Odds. Likelihoods. I guess I have to hammer that home since I said it every time but people are acting like I said it's carved in stone.
Right. You listed a bunch of "maybes," followed each of them with the word "truth," and then called the whole post "facts."
And
then you claim not to be spinning anything.
You might want to reassess what you think "spin" is.
Look at a few picks taken right after the 29th pick
Watt, T.J.
Foster, Reuben
Ramczyk, Ryan
Robinson, Cam
Baker, Budda
Lamp, Forrest
Cook, Dalvin
To just name a few, I think this year there will be similar talent fall to our pick.
(02-11-2018, 04:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2018, 04:48 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]That's why I said probabilities. Any or all 5 of the things I said could feasibly not turn out against us. It's just probabilities. Odds. Likelihoods. I guess I have to hammer that home since I said it every time but people are acting like I said it's carved in stone.
Right. You listed a bunch of "maybes," followed each of them with the word "truth," and then called the whole post "facts."
And then you claim not to be spinning anything.
You might want to reassess what you think "spin" is.
Nope not buying that at all, it is not hard at all to convey what I was saying if you were trying to have an honest conversation. Let's try phrasing it like this, since I clearly underestimated the level to which people will go to purposefully misconstrue a point.
1. The FACT that we had a bottom 5 schedule and will be replacing bottom ranked teams with top ranked teams means we will PROBABLY be facing a much harder schedule next year.
2. The FACT that our division was awful and will be getting various upgrades from QBs returning, new coaching, injured top contributors returning, etc means our division will PROBABLY be more competitive next year.
3. The FACT that we only missed 3 total starts from our entire defense and only had one serious offensive contributor on IR all year means that we will PROBABLY not have such fortunate injury luck next year.
4. The FACT that we have the most money dedicated to our 2018 cap and that most teams have far more cap space means other teams will PROBABLY be able to add higher impact players than us.
5. The FACT that almost every team has more draft capital than us means they will PROBABLY get better by a factor larger than us.
(02-11-2018, 05:05 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2018, 04:53 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Right. You listed a bunch of "maybes," followed each of them with the word "truth," and then called the whole post "facts."
And then you claim not to be spinning anything.
You might want to reassess what you think "spin" is.
Nope not buying that at all, it is not hard at all to convey what I was saying if you were trying to have an honest conversation. Let's try phrasing it like this, since I clearly underestimated the level to which people will go to purposefully misconstrue a point.
1. The FACT that we had a bottom 5 schedule and will be replacing bottom ranked teams with top ranked teams means we will PROBABLY be facing a much harder schedule next year.
2. The FACT that our division was awful and will be getting various upgrades from QBs returning, new coaching, injured top contributors returning, etc means our division will PROBABLY be more competitive next year.
3. The FACT that we only missed 3 total starts from our entire defense and only had one serious offensive contributor on IR all year means that we will PROBABLY not have such fortunate injury luck next year.
4. The FACT that we have the most money dedicated to our 2018 cap and that most teams have far more cap space means other teams will PROBABLY be able to add higher impact players than us.
5. The FACT that almost every team has more draft capital than us means they will PROBABLY get better by a factor larger than us.
LOL
You are hilarious.
The "fact" that something "probably" will happen.
That's some real convincing stuff there.
If you want to be "honest" then stop calling speculation fact. That'd be a good start. You are the one misconstruing things.
(02-11-2018, 05:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
You are hilarious.
The "fact" that something "probably" will happen.
That's some real convincing stuff there.
If you want to be "honest" then stop calling speculation fact. That'd be a good start. You are the one misconstruing things.
Holy hell, none of the facts are speculations. All 5 of those things are unequivocally working against us.
You can quibble about whether we will get lucky again with injuries or have enough FO talent to overperform enough in FA/draft to overcome those disadvantages, but they are all disadvantages and that's just not up for debate.
(02-11-2018, 05:31 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2018, 05:16 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
You are hilarious.
The "fact" that something "probably" will happen.
That's some real convincing stuff there.
If you want to be "honest" then stop calling speculation fact. That'd be a good start. You are the one misconstruing things.
Holy hell, none of the facts are speculations. All 5 of those things are unequivocally working against us.
You can quibble about whether we will get lucky again with injuries or have enough FO talent to overperform enough in FA/draft to overcome those disadvantages, but they are all disadvantages and that's just not up for debate.
We likely will have a harder schedule. Doesn't bother me much. The Jags will get better and that defense can still keep them in most games against the better opponents.
We probably won't get that lucky again with injuries. Yeah. Who knows? Probably not.
Teams having more cap space seems like a ridiculous thing to list as "counting against us." We just used a bunch of cap space to add players that helped us tremendously and they'll still be here. The standard ebb and flow of free agency is hardly something I'm going to list as some great concern. How many opponents do you think will beat us because they had more money to spend in 2018?
The division getting harder is pure speculation. The tacks have a new staff, the tinhorns have lots to fix and a young QB that's a mostly unknown commodity and the colts will be trying a re-boot with a new staff and a QB of dubious health.
The draft thing - I already explained that it's silly to fret over picking 29th. I put little stock in that when good players get selected all over the board every year.
Anyway - while there's some validity to a few of your points - I was merely pointing out how funny it was that you were littering posts of speculations and opinions with words like "truth and fact" all over the place while claiming not to spin.
That's funny to me. Sorry.
(02-11-2018, 05:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2018, 05:31 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Holy hell, none of the facts are speculations. All 5 of those things are unequivocally working against us.
You can quibble about whether we will get lucky again with injuries or have enough FO talent to overperform enough in FA/draft to overcome those disadvantages, but they are all disadvantages and that's just not up for debate.
We likely will have a harder schedule. Doesn't bother me much. The Jags will get better and that defense can still keep them in most games against the better opponents.
We probably won't get that lucky again with injuries. Yeah. Who knows? Probably not.
Teams having more cap space seems like a ridiculous thing to list as "counting against us." We just used a bunch of cap space to add players that helped us tremendously and they'll still be here. The standard ebb and flow of free agency is hardly something I'm going to list as some great concern. How many opponents do you think will beat us because they had more money to spend in 2018?
The division getting harder is pure speculation. The tacks have a new staff, the tinhorns have lots to fix and a young QB that's a mostly unknown commodity and the colts will be trying a re-boot with a new staff and a QB of dubious health.
The draft thing - I already explained that it's silly to fret over picking 29th. I put little stock in that when good players get selected all over the board every year.
Anyway - while there's some validity to a few of your points - I was merely pointing out how funny it was that you were littering posts of speculations and opinions with words like "truth and fact" all over the place while claiming not to spin.
That's funny to me. Sorry.
Defense, maybe not. Offense, as long as the QB doesnt get hurt I dont see how we cant be more healthy. Lost our number 1 WR and arguably our best offensive player in the first drive in game 1, our 2nd best WR in Hurns missed 6 games and was banged up most of the season, Lee missed a few games. LF missed some although we still won. Oline was being shuffled all season because of injury.
(02-11-2018, 06:10 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2018, 05:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]We likely will have a harder schedule. Doesn't bother me much. The Jags will get better and that defense can still keep them in most games against the better opponents.
We probably won't get that lucky again with injuries. Yeah. Who knows? Probably not.
Teams having more cap space seems like a ridiculous thing to list as "counting against us." We just used a bunch of cap space to add players that helped us tremendously and they'll still be here. The standard ebb and flow of free agency is hardly something I'm going to list as some great concern. How many opponents do you think will beat us because they had more money to spend in 2018?
The division getting harder is pure speculation. The tacks have a new staff, the tinhorns have lots to fix and a young QB that's a mostly unknown commodity and the colts will be trying a re-boot with a new staff and a QB of dubious health.
The draft thing - I already explained that it's silly to fret over picking 29th. I put little stock in that when good players get selected all over the board every year.
Anyway - while there's some validity to a few of your points - I was merely pointing out how funny it was that you were littering posts of speculations and opinions with words like "truth and fact" all over the place while claiming not to spin.
That's funny to me. Sorry.
Defense, maybe not. Offense, as long as the QB doesnt get hurt I dont see how we cant be more healthy. Lost our number 1 WR and arguably our best offensive player in the first drive in game 1, our 2nd best WR in Hurns missed 6 games and was banged up most of the season, Lee missed a few games. LF missed some although we still won. Oline was being shuffled all season because of injury.
Exactly, the defense had good fortune from a games missed standpoint, but the loss of ARob right off the bat was a massive blow.
With ARob playing the whole season I wouldn't have been shocked for the Jaguars to be the number one seed in the playoffs instead of having to travel. It was a huge loss that made the offense completely different. Having a guy like ARob that can't be left in single coverage would have changed the way defenses had to play Fournette and the offense.
(02-11-2018, 05:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2018, 05:31 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Holy hell, none of the facts are speculations. All 5 of those things are unequivocally working against us.
You can quibble about whether we will get lucky again with injuries or have enough FO talent to overperform enough in FA/draft to overcome those disadvantages, but they are all disadvantages and that's just not up for debate.
We likely will have a harder schedule. Doesn't bother me much. The Jags will get better and that defense can still keep them in most games against the better opponents.
We probably won't get that lucky again with injuries. Yeah. Who knows? Probably not.
Teams having more cap space seems like a ridiculous thing to list as "counting against us." We just used a bunch of cap space to add players that helped us tremendously and they'll still be here. The standard ebb and flow of free agency is hardly something I'm going to list as some great concern. How many opponents do you think will beat us because they had more money to spend in 2018?
The division getting harder is pure speculation. The tacks have a new staff, the tinhorns have lots to fix and a young QB that's a mostly unknown commodity and the colts will be trying a re-boot with a new staff and a QB of dubious health.
The draft thing - I already explained that it's silly to fret over picking 29th. I put little stock in that when good players get selected all over the board every year.
Anyway - while there's some validity to a few of your points - I was merely pointing out how funny it was that you were littering posts of speculations and opinions with words like "truth and fact" all over the place while claiming not to spin.
That's funny to me. Sorry.
And picking 29th, we could have a possible 2019 starting quarterback fall in our lap!
Yeah a healthy fournette and arob will help tons on offense.
(02-11-2018, 03:43 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2018, 08:10 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]You spun evens or positives into negatives to make your point.
I just said logical probabilities.
I see now, you struggle with the concept of "probability."
Our schedule was the 5th easiest. Instead of now facing the last place teams in divisions we are playing 1st place teams (I assume you understand how the schedule works but maybe that's a bad assumption). The odds that we have a bottom 5 easiest schedule is highly unlikely, truth.
Reality: "1st place schedule" is a fallacy. The Chiefs have a new quarterback, last year is irrelevant. The Eagles are no different than the Steelers this year, the Cowboys no different than the Ravens, the Giants and Redskins are bad teams. We play the AFC East with the Pats and the 3 dwarves. The Steelers are our [BLEEP]. The division is getting worse next year, not better. Strength of schedule isn't a real thing until the season is actually over, projection is just assumption. Just ask our fans who were sure we'd beat the Jets this year.
Our entire starting 11 on defense missed 3(!) total starts the entire season. We lost one significant player to injury all year. Almost every other team is getting more players back from injury, truth.
Reality: Irellevant, there's no karma to make up for however last year went for anyone. You're tilting at windmills.
We have the most money spent toward our 2018 cap, fortunately we have rollover but that will be spent quickly. Other teams can spend more thus get better by a factor more than us. Truth.
Reality: Spending more in free agency doesn't always make teams better.
Almost every other teams has higher draft picks and more draft picks since we draft 29th and don't have a 5th rounder. That's truth.
Reality: Yes, that doesn't translate into doom for us.
It sucks that you think facts are spinning, but I guess that's where we are now.
Reality: It sucks more that you think these facts are important, but I guess for you critical thinking has been replaced by pants-wetting.
(02-11-2018, 09:20 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (02-11-2018, 03:43 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I just said logical probabilities.
I see now, you struggle with the concept of "probability."
Our schedule was the 5th easiest. Instead of now facing the last place teams in divisions we are playing 1st place teams (I assume you understand how the schedule works but maybe that's a bad assumption). The odds that we have a bottom 5 easiest schedule is highly unlikely, truth.
Reality: "1st place schedule" is a fallacy. The Chiefs have a new quarterback, last year is irrelevant. The Eagles are no different than the Steelers this year, the Cowboys no different than the Ravens, the Giants and Redskins are bad teams. We play the AFC East with the Pats and the 3 dwarves. The Steelers are our [BLEEP]. The division is getting worse next year, not better. Strength of schedule isn't a real thing until the season is actually over, projection is just assumption. Just ask our fans who were sure we'd beat the Jets this year.
Our entire starting 11 on defense missed 3(!) total starts the entire season. We lost one significant player to injury all year. Almost every other team is getting more players back from injury, truth.
Reality: Irellevant, there's no karma to make up for however last year went for anyone. You're tilting at windmills.
We have the most money spent toward our 2018 cap, fortunately we have rollover but that will be spent quickly. Other teams can spend more thus get better by a factor more than us. Truth.
Reality: Spending more in free agency doesn't always make teams better.
Almost every other teams has higher draft picks and more draft picks since we draft 29th and don't have a 5th rounder. That's truth.
Reality: Yes, that doesn't translate into doom for us.
It sucks that you think facts are spinning, but I guess that's where we are now.
Reality: It sucks more that you think these facts are important, but I guess for you critical thinking has been replaced by pants-wetting.
So true!! How many penciled in wins against Jets, Rams, and Niners? Yet figured losses against Seattle, Pitt , and Baltimore? Its all a crapshoot.
I'll take Sam Bradford. If he can stay healthy, big if, he's better than any of the quarterbacks available.
Am i crazy I'd take Bortles over Bradford
Anyone know what happened with all the Eli Manning speculation?
Is he out of the running now?
Personally I'd stick with Bortles, bring in a rookie to challenge him and cut Henne. Surely the main focus for us would be improving the O-line...
If Bortles gets a good, clean pocket he can throw well
(02-12-2018, 04:51 AM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]Am i crazy I'd take Bortles over Bradford
At least Bortles stays healthy and plays. Bradford is hurt at least half the season most years. Not only that, when he does play, he's the epitome of the word average. I don't think he'd be a good signing at all. He's just not dependable.
(02-12-2018, 05:43 AM)crouchy22 Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone know what happened with all the Eli Manning speculation?
Is he out of the running now?
Personally I'd stick with Bortles, bring in a rookie to challenge him and cut Henne. Surely the main focus for us would be improving the O-line...
If Bortles gets a good, clean pocket he can throw well
From what I've read, the new HC for the Giants really likes Manning and believes he can succeed with a better O-Line and running game. They say the chances of him staying in New York are much higher than they were a few weeks ago. They could still take a QB at #2, but for the immediate future, Manning might be staying in New York, at least this coming season. I believe they will either take a QB of the future at #2 or they will trade down and take one of the top OT's.
(02-12-2018, 05:43 AM)crouchy22 Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone know what happened with all the Eli Manning speculation?
Is he out of the running now?
Personally I'd stick with Bortles, bring in a rookie to challenge him and cut Henne. Surely the main focus for us would be improving the O-line...
If Bortles gets a good, clean pocket he can throw well
Bob Macadoofus got fired the week after he benched Eli. That tells you what you need to know about Eli's status with the Giants.
The whole first place schedule matters a whopping 2 games compared to the rest of our division, and the AFC West does not a clear favorite. I do think next year will be a top heavy schedule, but I still expect this team to make the postseason.
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