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I'm not getting all this love for Cousins. Is he better than BB5? I'd say marginally so. With BB5 seeming to have elevated his level of play over last year, I'd think it stupid to spend that much money on an upgrade that is a marginal upgrade at best, when adding a few more pieces such as a good receiving TE and bolstering the O-line should allow BB5 to shine in 2018. Why some of you are wanting to get rid of a guy that went toe to toe with Brady and would have beaten him had it not been for too conservative of playcalling in the 2nd half in addition to the zebras doing their best to ensure a win for NE, is beyond me.

(02-09-2018, 07:23 PM)MoJagFan Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-09-2018, 07:14 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]What is the cost of getting him?  This year Ivory, Hurns, Colvin?  What about next year who goes to get/keep Cousins?  The year after?  We have been through this trading the future for immediate success before.  It didn't work out so well.  

Like it or not, Bortles IS Jacksonville.  Under appreciated, bring your lunch pail to work, bust your tail, show up hurt or sick, give it everything you got while most of those around you make fun of you, and no one values your worth.  Yup sounds exactly like Jacksonville.

So you think Bortles isn't going to want to get paid?

Bortles is on the roster and wants to stay here.  Cousins is a free agent looking to get paid with multiple suitors.  Which one is the best option to pursue all things considered?

The cap propaganda doesn't make much sense to me.

Reality is we have enough cap flexibility to sign Kirk, Arob along with Yannick and Ramsey down the line. Jack if he takes his play up a level or two sure. Love him as a talent but you have to be wary about paying two off ball linebackers 20 million a year.

Our cap is future proofed.

(02-09-2018, 07:51 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-09-2018, 07:14 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]What is the cost of getting him?  This year Ivory, Hurns, Colvin?  What about next year who goes to get/keep Cousins?  The year after?  We have been through this trading the future for immediate success before.  It didn't work out so well.  

Like it or not, Bortles IS Jacksonville.  Under appreciated, bring your lunch pail to work, bust your tail, show up hurt or sick, give it everything you got while most of those around you make fun of you, and no one values your worth.  Yup sounds exactly like Jacksonville.

Hurns and Ivory are most likely gone whether the Jags sign Kirk or keep Blake. Colvin is most likely gone too regardless of the QB position..

And next year? The Jags will either have to pay Blake big money or make a QB change. 

Blake is inconsistent and he needs to make major strides to earn a new contract.

Perhaps I should have been more clear.  Garoppolo just signed this contract:  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27418...n-contract

Cousins is going to want similar money.  We have to resign our 2014 contributors not including Blake (Colvin and Robinson at this point) this year.  Next year we have the 2015 draft class which at this point is pretty much Fowler and Yeldon.  The following year is when things get really dicey when we have to resign the 2016 class (Ramsey, Jack and Ngakoue)  And that is just the draft classes, throw in the free agents that are major contributors and our dwindling salary cap space and we are looking at 2000 all over again.  With all that, is Cousins really that big of an upgrade?

(02-09-2018, 08:27 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-09-2018, 07:51 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Hurns and Ivory are most likely gone whether the Jags sign Kirk or keep Blake. Colvin is most likely gone too regardless of the QB position..

And next year? The Jags will either have to pay Blake big money or make a QB change. 

Blake is inconsistent and he needs to make major strides to earn a new contract.

Perhaps I should have been more clear.  Garoppolo just signed this contract:  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27418...n-contract

Cousins is going to want similar money.  We have to resign our 2014 contributors not including Blake (Colvin and Robinson at this point) this year.  Next year we have the 2015 draft class which at this point is pretty much Fowler and Yeldon.  The following year is when things get really dicey when we have to resign the 2016 class (Ramsey, Jack and Ngakoue)  And that is just the draft classes, throw in the free agents that are major contributors and our dwindling salary cap space and we are looking at 2000 all over again.  With all that, is Cousins really that big of an upgrade?

You’re missing the point.

QBs cost quite a bit of money. If Blake plays well, don’t you think he’s going to want Jimmy G money? So regardless of if it’s Cousins or Bortles or another QB in 2019, they will cost money. And if it’s a rookie, are we wasting a fantastic roster with a rookie QB?

(02-09-2018, 08:56 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-09-2018, 08:27 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps I should have been more clear.  Garoppolo just signed this contract:  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27418...n-contract

Cousins is going to want similar money.  We have to resign our 2014 contributors not including Blake (Colvin and Robinson at this point) this year.  Next year we have the 2015 draft class which at this point is pretty much Fowler and Yeldon.  The following year is when things get really dicey when we have to resign the 2016 class (Ramsey, Jack and Ngakoue)  And that is just the draft classes, throw in the free agents that are major contributors and our dwindling salary cap space and we are looking at 2000 all over again.  With all that, is Cousins really that big of an upgrade?

You’re missing the point.

QBs cost quite a bit of money. If Blake plays well, don’t you think he’s going to want Jimmy G money? So regardless of if it’s Cousins or Bortles or another QB in 2019, they will cost money. And if it’s a rookie, are we wasting a fantastic roster with a rookie QB?

I get that QB's are expensive.  The question you have to ask though is Cousins that much of an upgrade to mortgage the aforementioned players for one or two years of success followed by cap hell part 2?

And no I don't believe Bortles will command Jimmy G type money this year so sign him now.  Add a mean nasty guard with an attitude and a tight end.  BB5 did not lose the AFC Championship game, play calling did.  That is easy to fix IMO.

(02-09-2018, 07:14 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 11:29 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]They saw Kirk in practice every day and they franchise tagged him twice.... How many QBs have been franchised twice? The Skins botched the situation and that's not even really debatable.

If you believe Cousins is better than Blake (which you said) then why not try to get him? The QB position isg yhou the most important position and if you can upgrade it, you do it. This team needs consistency. I mean if the Jags D doesn't hold the Bills to 3 points, you wouldn't be saying "Let's bring Blake back." You would be throwing him out the door and you wouldn't think twice.

What is the cost of getting him?  This year Ivory, Hurns, Colvin?  What about next year who goes to get/keep Cousins?  The year after?  We have been through this trading the future for immediate success before.  It didn't work out so well.  

Like it or not, Bortles IS Jacksonville.  Under appreciated, bring your lunch pail to work, bust your tail, show up hurt or sick, give it everything you got while most of those around you make fun of you, and no one values your worth.  Yup sounds exactly like Jacksonville.

Love this, spot on.

Cousins is going to get over paid. I would pass on him.

Bortles earned another year. Let him play out his extension (still cheap for a starting QB) and then make a decision after that. I Do believe it wise for the Jaguars to pick a QB early in this draft. The Eagles are proof there is heavy value in QB #2.

(02-09-2018, 09:35 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-09-2018, 08:56 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]You’re missing the point.

QBs cost quite a bit of money. If Blake plays well, don’t you think he’s going to want Jimmy G money? So regardless of if it’s Cousins or Bortles or another QB in 2019, they will cost money. And if it’s a rookie, are we wasting a fantastic roster with a rookie QB?

I get that QB's are expensive.  The question you have to ask though is Cousins that much of an upgrade to mortgage the aforementioned players for one or two years of success followed by cap hell part 2?

And no I don't believe Bortles will command Jimmy G type money this year so sign him now.  Add a mean nasty guard with an attitude and a tight end.  BB5 did not lose the AFC Championship game, play calling did.  That is easy to fix IMO.

Sign him now for what? He’s due to make 19 million this year. He would most likely want a raise. And you seem to be worried about the future so if you sign Blake now, aren’t you worried about signing all the players you mentioned?

(02-09-2018, 10:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-09-2018, 09:35 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]I get that QB's are expensive.  The question you have to ask though is Cousins that much of an upgrade to mortgage the aforementioned players for one or two years of success followed by cap hell part 2?

And no I don't believe Bortles will command Jimmy G type money this year so sign him now.  Add a mean nasty guard with an attitude and a tight end.  BB5 did not lose the AFC Championship game, play calling did.  That is easy to fix IMO.

Sign him now for what? He’s due to make 19 million this year. He would most likely want a raise. And you seem to be worried about the future so if you sign Blake now, aren’t you worried about signing all the players you mentioned?

Semantics.  Whom will cost more to sign to a 5 year contract in 2018?  Were I to take your question at face value we should just sign a rookie and roll the dice. I know that it is not what you are saying though.  I am certain we would lose fewer players by keeping Blake than by signing Cousins.  And furthermore I still believe in Blake.

(02-09-2018, 10:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-09-2018, 09:35 PM)copycat Wrote: [ -> ]I get that QB's are expensive.  The question you have to ask though is Cousins that much of an upgrade to mortgage the aforementioned players for one or two years of success followed by cap hell part 2?

And no I don't believe Bortles will command Jimmy G type money this year so sign him now.  Add a mean nasty guard with an attitude and a tight end.  BB5 did not lose the AFC Championship game, play calling did.  That is easy to fix IMO.

Sign him now for what? He’s due to make 19 million this year. He would most likely want a raise. And you seem to be worried about the future so if you sign Blake now, aren’t you worried about signing all the players you mentioned?

3 years 50 mil. Saves 40 mil over 3 years vs what Cousins will command. As Blake is looking at 19 mil and potentially zip if he is cut it could be appealing to all parties. Still draft a qb this year.

(02-09-2018, 10:31 PM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-09-2018, 10:09 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Sign him now for what? He’s due to make 19 million this year. He would most likely want a raise. And you seem to be worried about the future so if you sign Blake now, aren’t you worried about signing all the players you mentioned?

3 years 50 mil. Saves 40 mil over 3 years vs what Cousins will command. As Blake is looking at 19 mil and potentially zip if he is cut it could be appealing to all parties. Still draft a qb this year.

That works.

Getting back to the original premise of this thread, we need to assume Bortles is not an option. Say Bortles retires tomorrow. Then my choice would be:

1. Draft a QB and find a guy who is out of favor but has a decent record to start if necessary in 2018. Ryan Fitzpatrick is my prototype here.

I don't think Cousins is worth breaking the bank to get. If we do sign him does he also come with the Redskins OC and QB coach?

(02-09-2018, 11:32 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-09-2018, 10:31 PM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]3 years 50 mil. Saves 40 mil over 3 years vs what Cousins will command. As Blake is looking at 19 mil and potentially zip if he is cut it could be appealing to all parties. Still draft a qb this year.

That works.

Getting back to the original premise of this thread, we need to assume Bortles is not an option. Say Bortles retires tomorrow. Then my choice would be:

1. Draft a QB and find a guy who is out of favor but has a decent record to start if necessary in 2018. Ryan Fitzpatrick is my prototype here.

I don't think Cousins is worth breaking the bank to get. If we do sign him does he also come with the Redskins OC and QB coach?

Nah but he gets an elite defense and elite run game to lean on..two things he's never had. 

Also a very talented crop of receivers to throw to.

Yeah our D and run game and wr's would be best Cousins has ever had facts.

Cousins played with future hall of famer Desean Jackson up until last season, but yeah Bortles has had better receivers even though at most one non rookie starter level receiver has been available to him at any one time.

Cousins top 2 receivers in 2016 were both long time veterans with 1300 yard seasons under their belt (playing with a different QB). He also had 2 pro bowl tight ends that year in reed and Davis who have both had 900 yard seasons.

(02-10-2018, 08:38 AM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]Cousins played with future hall of famer Desean Jackson up until last season, but yeah Bortles has had better receivers even though at most one non rookie starter level receiver has been available to him at any one time.

Desean Jackson?  A future hall of famer?  Really?  I mean, I don't want Cousins either.  But Desean Jackson, a future hall of famer?  Wow.

(02-10-2018, 07:22 AM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah our D and run game and wr's would be best Cousins has ever had facts.

Are you kidding me with that statement from you because you really got the Kirk Cousins pom-poms on if you truly feel this way. The supporting cast he has throughout his career with Washington was Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson, Alfred Morris, All Pro left tackle Trent Williams, Jordan Reed is better than anything Blake Bortles had in his career on the offensive side of the ball besides Leonard fournette and even he was hurt after week 6 so he wasn't the same guy. Before anybody bring up Allen Robinson he did it for one year and part of his down production and 2016 was Blake Bortles fault but a big part of his decline production in 2016 is his inability to beat the jam, inefficient play calling by Greg Olsen and inability to handle double-teams when opposing defenses game plan 4 him. Are we forgetting that Blake had a bunch of young unproven receivers throughout his career and fat man Julius Thomas who quit on the team the moment he had gotten his payday.  

I get it some of y'all fans want to make Kirk Cousins this mystical Legend as a QB but if you're going to have a discussion about him let's not make his situation with the Washington Redskins worse than what it was especially when the resume of the supporting cast throughout his career saids otherwise. In fact, not only his situation with Washington on the offensive side of ball was better but let's not forget the upper echelon of coaches he had throughout his career with Mike and Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, and Jay Gruden. Oh by the way, before anybody say that Kirk Cousins made his Supporting Cast better Pierre Garcon and DeSean Jackson was pretty good before they sign their big deals with the Washington Redskins in addition to Alfred Morris who was one of the leading rushers of the NFL before Kirk took over as a starter a full-time.

(02-10-2018, 09:51 AM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-10-2018, 07:22 AM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah our D and run game and wr's would be best Cousins has ever had facts.

Are you kidding me with that statement from you because you really got the Kirk Cousins pom-poms on if you truly feel this way. The supporting cast cast he has throughout his career with Washington have been Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson, Alfred Morris, All Pro left tackle Trent Williams Jordan Reed is better than anything Blake Bortles had in his career on the office of side of the ball besides Leonard  and even he was hurt after week 6 so he wasn't the same guy. Before anybody bring up Allen Robinson he did it for one year and part of his down production and 2016 was Blake Bortles fault but a big part of his decline production in 2016 is his inability to beat the jam, inefficient play calling by Greg Olsen and double-teams when opposing defenses game plan 4 him. Are we forgetting that he had a bunch of young unproven receivers throughout his career and fat man Julius Thomas who quit on the team the moment he had gotten his payday.  

I get it some of y'all fans want to make Kirk Cousins this mystical Legend as a QB but if you're going to have a discussion about him let's not make his situation with the Washington Redskins worse than what it was especially when the resume of the supporting cast throughout his career saids otherwise. In fact, not only his situation with Washington on the offensive side of ball was better but let's not forget the upper echelon of coaches he had throughout his career with Mike and Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, and Jay Gruden. Oh by the way, before you nobody say that Kirk Cousins made his Supporting Cast better Pierre Garcon and DeSean Jackson was pretty good before they sign their big deals with the Washington Redskins in addition to Alfred Morris who was one of the leading rushers of the NFL before Kirk took over as a starter a full-time.

Funny, the same group ready to make legendary quarterback Kirk Cousins the highest player in history---

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=24305

were saying the same things about Tyrod Taylor

(02-10-2018, 09:24 AM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-10-2018, 08:38 AM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]Cousins played with future hall of famer Desean Jackson up until last season, but yeah Bortles has had better receivers even though at most one non rookie starter level receiver has been available to him at any one time.

Desean Jackson?  A future hall of famer?  Really?  I mean, I don't want Cousins either.  But Desean Jackson, a future hall of famer?  Wow.

I guess potential hall of famer is more accurate. And yes he is one of if not the best deep ball receivers in the history of the NFL Around half of his touchdowns are over 60 yeards.