Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(02-08-2018, 03:40 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]You're right, if you're going to get shown a variety of balanced advanced stats and just throw them out the window then there isn't much point in talking.

I appreciate stats, but they are a tool to help evaluate players, and secondary to the eye test. Stats don't tell the full story in the slightest.

Having said that, I would actually appreciate seeing the stats you are talking about. Do you have a link?

(02-08-2018, 03:40 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 03:40 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]You're right, if you're going to get shown a variety of balanced advanced stats and just throw them out the window then there isn't much point in talking.

Is that a promise?

But, but we "got shown" a variety of balanced advanced stats. 
How could we possibly disagree? 
LOL

(02-08-2018, 04:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 03:40 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Is that a promise?

But, but we "got shown" a variety of balanced advanced stats. 
How could we possibly disagree? 
LOL

It makes you wonder if there is actually any value in watching them play at all.

My choice is Chad Henne.

(02-08-2018, 04:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 03:40 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Is that a promise?

But, but we "got shown" a variety of balanced advanced stats. 
How could we possibly disagree? 
LOL

There are those that use that as the end-all for proof.  It's laughable.  I'd wager that Terry Bradshaw's 'advanced stats' were awful.

I'm sorry.  I just don't see a $30+ million QB when I see Cousins...no matter how you want to spin it.

(02-08-2018, 04:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 03:40 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Is that a promise?

But, but we "got shown" a variety of balanced advanced stats. 
How could we possibly disagree? 
LOL

LOL
and he says thats not cherry picking.    

And yes i show stats that BB5 4th year is identical to Tom Bradys 4th year and they tell me stats done mean nothing was a different ear of football. you cant win with the #anyonebutblake crowd

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Advanced stats say that in 2017 regular season Cousins and Bortles were essentially equal and Foles was far worse than either of them.

(02-08-2018, 04:18 PM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 04:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]But, but we "got shown" a variety of balanced advanced stats. 
How could we possibly disagree? 
LOL

It makes you wonder if there is actually any value in watching them play at all.

Well... Some people just have a very high opinion of their opinions.  

Personally - I'm all about developing young talent in a situation where cap space will soon be a major issue. 
If this team can when with Blake in 2018 while developing a rookie behind him, it could prevent a lot of headaches when it's time to offer contracts to key defensive players. 

If Blake takes a big step forward and tempts the Jags into signing a big deal with him instead of promoting the new QB in 2019, well it's certainly not the worst problem to have. 

So even though I think Cousins would probably play better than Blake in 2018 on this team, I don't see him as the best option for the franchise and it's sustainability.

(02-08-2018, 04:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 03:40 PM)Rico Wrote: [ -> ]Is that a promise?

But, but we "got shown" a variety of balanced advanced stats. 
How could we possibly disagree? 
LOL

I do regularly underestimate how strong of a drug bias is, no debate there.

(02-08-2018, 04:40 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 04:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]But, but we "got shown" a variety of balanced advanced stats. 
How could we possibly disagree? 
LOL

I do regularly underestimate how strong of a drug bias is, no debate there.

Not half as strong of a drug as self-importance.

(02-08-2018, 04:38 PM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 04:02 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]But, but we "got shown" a variety of balanced advanced stats. 
How could we possibly disagree? 
LOL

LOL
and he says thats not cherry picking.    

And yes i show stats that BB5 4th year is identical to Tom Bradys 4th year and they tell me stats done mean nothing was a different ear of football. you cant win with the #anyonebutblake crowd

Overall stats between eras mean next to nothing. You can look at the + stats for them and see that what Brady did in his 4th season was excellent compared to his peers and what Bortles did in his 4th season was average compared to his peers.

---

(02-08-2018, 04:38 PM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Advanced stats say that in 2017 regular season Cousins and Bortles were essentially equal and Foles was far worse than either of them.

It's funny how every single time QBR came up for years it was bashed around here as the single worst stat in football (I don't disagree with that either it is among the worst stats), but now that Bortles isn't completely horrible in it it's the go to stat?

Here is a thought -

I'm all for letting BB5 play out this next year for 19m but lets say he improves and we get back to the afccg or superbowl. With Garappalo signing 27.5 mill and Cousins going to command about the same. Why should we wait for BB5 to be a free agent. I know yall gonna hate this but why not give him a 2 or 3 yr ext at 19 or 20m now. If he becomes the QB we want him to be why not have him under contract instead of paying top dollar to him next yr. Its a risk certainly but no more a risk at signing cousings for almost 30 mill. Flame away

Just to add if you say we can franchise him next year the franchise cost might be closer to 23 or 25.

(02-08-2018, 04:42 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 04:38 PM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: [ -> ]LOL
and he says thats not cherry picking.    

And yes i show stats that BB5 4th year is identical to Tom Bradys 4th year and they tell me stats done mean nothing was a different ear of football. you cant win with the #anyonebutblake crowd

Overall stats between eras mean next to nothing. You can look at the + stats for them and see that what Brady did in his 4th season was excellent compared to his peers and what Bortles did in his 4th season was average compared to his peers.

---

(02-08-2018, 04:38 PM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Advanced stats say that in 2017 regular season Cousins and Bortles were essentially equal and Foles was far worse than either of them.

It's funny how every single time QBR came up for years it was bashed around here as the single worst stat in football (I don't disagree with that either it is among the worst stats), but now that Bortles isn't completely horrible in it it's the go to stat?

I was actually referring to DYAR and DYOA, but come to think of it Bortles is ahead in QBR as well.

(02-08-2018, 05:39 PM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-08-2018, 04:42 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Overall stats between eras mean next to nothing. You can look at the + stats for them and see that what Brady did in his 4th season was excellent compared to his peers and what Bortles did in his 4th season was average compared to his peers.

---

It's funny how every single time QBR came up for years it was bashed around here as the single worst stat in football (I don't disagree with that either it is among the worst stats), but now that Bortles isn't completely horrible in it it's the go to stat?

I was actually referring to DYAR and DYOA, but come to think of it Bortles is ahead in QBR as well.

My man according to Ryan Day the advanced metrics don't mean anything if Blake Bortles is ahead of Kirk Cousins if those categories. To him, it's all about the eye test and the pretty throwing motion as if none of the other attributes mean nothing in this discussion regarding the  2 quarterbacks. Its so surprising that so many people in this fan base want to replace Blake as if he's the 32nd best quarterback in the league which is not the case.

Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson or Luke Falk in the draft. We would probably have to move up to land Mayfield though. Jackson may or may not be there at 29. Falk we could probably land in RD4 or later. This is if they truly plan on sticking with Blake for at least another year. Mayfield I think could challenge him for his job from the start. Jackson and Falk would need time to develop.

Free agency wise. After the ridiculous amount of money Jimmy G just got today with the 49ERS. I want ZERO to do with Kirk Cousins at the negotiation table. He's a great regular season QB for fantasy football but he's done nothing in the play-offs and I just don't think he's worth destroying your salary cap over. I would rather them go after Drew Brees for a one or two year deal if the Saints let him escape for whatever reason. Case Keenum & Teddy Bridgewater as well.

This team is going to have to pay a QB sooner or later. You can’t put a rookie out there right now. This team is ready to win now and the draft is such a crapshoot. If Blake plays well then the Jags will have to pay him 27+ million after next season anyways.

So Blake at 27 million or Cousins at 27 million?

I would trade a first round pick for Foles. Superbowl MVP, why not? Who knows he may end up starting for the Eagles next year.

What has Blake done the following hasn't? Garoppolo, Cousins, Stafford,Dalton,Prescott,Taylor?

Not only win one playoff game but he has won 2 of them. It wasn't like we were dominating and Blake kinda rode the defense for the win. Blake made big boy throws at big times.

Just sayin

process > results

Blake had a good year, but is still an average quarterback.

Blake was so good in the playoffs completing a measly 57% of his passes. He's had 4 years in the league and he still can't consistently throws receivers in stride on easy crossing routes. He was literally asked to do the bare minimum on this team last year, ditto in the playoffs. The majority of his completions are crossing routes or passes in the flat. There were only 2 passes the entire playoffs that were impressive, both to Cole. The guy isn't going to take the next step because his accuracy is bad and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

And please stop mentioning playoffs as to why Blake is better. Cousins does more with less every single year. Not his fault he has never had an historic defense on his side.

(02-08-2018, 06:49 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]This team is going to have to pay a QB sooner or later. You can’t put a rookie out there right now. This team is ready to win now and the draft is such a crapshoot. If Blake plays well then the Jags will have to pay him 27+ million after next season anyways.

So Blake at 27 million or Cousins at 27 million?

I understand your point, but there is no guarantee that Cousins replicates his success (if you want to call it that) if he comes to Jax. There are so many variables that go into all of this. In that scenario (paying Blake big money after a successful year) we would be paying a QB who has definitively proven he can be successful in this system in this team. With Cousins you would have no such proof. As such, I vote Blake at 27 over Cousins at 27.