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Yeah as really that Blake is being made a scapegoat. And the whole team is at fault. And really do not pin all the problems on him. He will remain at QB barring either an injury or that of a downward spiral.

(10-15-2018, 11:17 AM)Rockman1966 Wrote: [ -> ]  Frankly, with this OL I don't think any QB is going to be effective.

We have a winner.

Line has Linder, Cann, Norwell, and Parnell. Do they have some
nicks and bruises? Sure, but they are PLAYING. Enough with the injury excuses, it's just LT, and to be dead honest LT wasn't the problem at all it was the interior.

The interior that everyone gives Linder a pass, has Norwell a first team all pro, and veteran Cann.

Maybe they just are flat out overrated? Maybe Linder sucks at calling protections? Maybe Blake sucks at recognizing blitzes and calling protections?

Bottom line ... If you are playing I don't want to hear any injury excuse whatsoever. There's 4 starters out there... and the HC is an OLINE guy. It's not injuries...

(10-15-2018, 07:54 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Line has Linder, Cann, Norwell, and Parnell. Do they have some
nicks and bruises? Sure, but they are PLAYING. Enough with the injury excuses, it's just LT, and to be dead honest LT wasn't the problem at all it was the interior.

The interior that everyone gives Linder a pass, has Norwell a first team all pro, and veteran Cann.

Maybe they just are flat out overrated? Maybe Linder sucks at calling protections? Maybe Blake sucks at recognizing blitzes and calling protections?

Bottom line ... If you are playing I don't want to hear any injury excuse whatsoever. There's 4 starters out there... and the HC is an OLINE guy. It's not injuries...

Cann's never been more than average, and Parnell has been getting his tail handed to him a lot this year. I've seen Norwell get beat, and Linder's playing hurt. Cam Robinson's a solid LT who was developing nicely, and replacing him with Wells and now Walker has really exposed Blake to a blindside rush.

Truthfully, I think identifying a LT is going to be the thing that makes or breaks the OL this year. It's not Walker. It might be Flowers...and I might fall out of bed onto a pile of cash that lets me retire tomorrow morning. Maybe Richardson gets some reps there before it's all said and done? LT is the critical problem. I think we have some pretty serious issues at RG and RT as well and absolutely zero quality depth outside of Shatley (and possibly Richardson), but those are probably all problems for this offseason. If we don't find a left tackle that can keep the pass rush off of Blake for at least a couple of seconds, it's going to be a very long year.

(10-15-2018, 08:13 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 07:54 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Line has Linder, Cann, Norwell, and Parnell. Do they have some
nicks and bruises? Sure, but they are PLAYING. Enough with the injury excuses, it's just LT, and to be dead honest LT wasn't the problem at all it was the interior.

The interior that everyone gives Linder a pass, has Norwell a first team all pro, and veteran Cann.

Maybe they just are flat out overrated? Maybe Linder sucks at calling protections? Maybe Blake sucks at recognizing blitzes and calling protections?

Bottom line ... If you are playing I don't want to hear any injury excuse whatsoever. There's 4 starters out there... and the HC is an OLINE guy. It's not injuries...

Cann's never been more than average, and Parnell has been getting his tail handed to him a lot this year. I've seen Norwell get beat, and Linder's playing hurt. Cam Robinson's a solid LT who was developing nicely, and replacing him with Wells and now Walker has really exposed Blake to a blindside rush.

Truthfully, I think identifying a LT is going to be the thing that makes or breaks the OL this year. It's not Walker. It might be Flowers...and I might fall out of bed onto a pile of cash that lets me retire tomorrow morning. Maybe Richardson gets some reps there before it's all said and done? LT is the critical problem. I think we have some pretty serious issues at RG and RT as well and absolutely zero quality depth outside of Shatley (and possibly Richardson), but those are probably all problems for this offseason. If we don't find a left tackle that can keep the pass rush off of Blake for at least a couple of seconds, it's going to be a very long year.

You're essentially agreeing, except you are doing what every single person does and gives Linder a pass. Why? "Playing hurt". He's out there and I don't want to hear that nonsense.

The fact is this O-line was vastly overrated, it's not injuries. Norwell is looking like a complete scrub, Cann sucks, Parnell is trash, and Linder is ok. That's their performance right now... how the hell is that acceptable when the HEAD COACH is an OLINE guy? Enough with the injury excuse.

Regarding Cam he was graded the worst LT in the game last year. Teal glasses made him seem better.

(10-15-2018, 08:21 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 08:13 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Cann's never been more than average, and Parnell has been getting his tail handed to him a lot this year. I've seen Norwell get beat, and Linder's playing hurt. Cam Robinson's a solid LT who was developing nicely, and replacing him with Wells and now Walker has really exposed Blake to a blindside rush.

Truthfully, I think identifying a LT is going to be the thing that makes or breaks the OL this year. It's not Walker. It might be Flowers...and I might fall out of bed onto a pile of cash that lets me retire tomorrow morning. Maybe Richardson gets some reps there before it's all said and done? LT is the critical problem. I think we have some pretty serious issues at RG and RT as well and absolutely zero quality depth outside of Shatley (and possibly Richardson), but those are probably all problems for this offseason. If we don't find a left tackle that can keep the pass rush off of Blake for at least a couple of seconds, it's going to be a very long year.

You're essentially agreeing, except you are doing what every single person does and gives Linder a pass. Why? "Playing hurt". He's out there and I don't want to hear that nonsense.

The fact is this O-line was vastly overrated, it's not injuries. Norwell is looking like a complete scrub, Cann sucks, Parnell is trash, and Linder is ok. That's their performance right now... how the hell is that acceptable when the HEAD COACH is an OLINE guy? Enough with the injury excuse.

Regarding Cam he was graded the worst LT in the game last year. Teal glasses made him seem better.

When did Linder get beat?

(10-15-2018, 08:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 08:21 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]You're essentially agreeing, except you are doing what every single person does and gives Linder a pass. Why? "Playing hurt". He's out there and I don't want to hear that nonsense.

The fact is this O-line was vastly overrated, it's not injuries. Norwell is looking like a complete scrub, Cann sucks, Parnell is trash, and Linder is ok. That's their performance right now... how the hell is that acceptable when the HEAD COACH is an OLINE guy? Enough with the injury excuse.

Regarding Cam he was graded the worst LT in the game last year. Teal glasses made him seem better.

When did Linder get beat?

The interior was getting blown up entire game... Offensive line isn't a 1v1 thing, it's a unit. They all played bad, Linder included. Something is off with protection call outs. They aren't working very well together, and as Marrone said... it is a communication thing, which I agree with completely. 

You see in NE how Brady is able to seemingly have great protection with "make-shift" o lines? It's because communication is at an allpro level. Brady is constantly communicating to the line making sure everyone is on the same page. We see Blake call out the mike, basically it. Can't hear what Linder is calling out, so can't comment on it. 

It's just very concerning that communication is such an issue at almost the mid point. This team needs the bye week more than anything to straighten things out. 

I'm seeing blown assignments across the entire line and that's all communication. IMO that's more the issue than these "injuries". If you're out there, the rule is it isn't an excuse.

(10-15-2018, 08:21 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 08:13 PM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Cann's never been more than average, and Parnell has been getting his tail handed to him a lot this year. I've seen Norwell get beat, and Linder's playing hurt. Cam Robinson's a solid LT who was developing nicely, and replacing him with Wells and now Walker has really exposed Blake to a blindside rush.

Truthfully, I think identifying a LT is going to be the thing that makes or breaks the OL this year. It's not Walker. It might be Flowers...and I might fall out of bed onto a pile of cash that lets me retire tomorrow morning. Maybe Richardson gets some reps there before it's all said and done? LT is the critical problem. I think we have some pretty serious issues at RG and RT as well and absolutely zero quality depth outside of Shatley (and possibly Richardson), but those are probably all problems for this offseason. If we don't find a left tackle that can keep the pass rush off of Blake for at least a couple of seconds, it's going to be a very long year.

You're essentially agreeing, except you are doing what every single person does and gives Linder a pass. Why? "Playing hurt". He's out there and I don't want to hear that nonsense.

The fact is this O-line was vastly overrated, it's not injuries. Norwell is looking like a complete scrub, Cann sucks, Parnell is trash, and Linder is ok. That's their performance right now... how the hell is that acceptable when the HEAD COACH is an OLINE guy? Enough with the injury excuse.

Regarding Cam he was graded the worst LT in the game last year. Teal glasses made him seem better.

Your argument lost all credibility when you pointed out cams PFF grade to use it against him and in the same breath called Linder average, when he is the 4th graded center in the league, according to PFF.

(10-15-2018, 08:39 PM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 08:21 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]You're essentially agreeing, except you are doing what every single person does and gives Linder a pass. Why? "Playing hurt". He's out there and I don't want to hear that nonsense.

The fact is this O-line was vastly overrated, it's not injuries. Norwell is looking like a complete scrub, Cann sucks, Parnell is trash, and Linder is ok. That's their performance right now... how the hell is that acceptable when the HEAD COACH is an OLINE guy? Enough with the injury excuse.

Regarding Cam he was graded the worst LT in the game last year. Teal glasses made him seem better.

Your argument lost all credibility when you pointed out cams PFF grade to use it against him and in the same breath called Linder average, when he is the 4th graded center in the league, according to PFF.

lol

---

(10-15-2018, 08:39 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 08:31 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]When did Linder get beat?

The interior was getting blown up entire game... Offensive line isn't a 1v1 thing, it's a unit. They all played bad, Linder included. Something is off with protection call outs. They aren't working very well together, and as Marrone said... it is a communication thing, which I agree with completely. 

You see in NE how Brady is able seemingly have great protection with "make-shift" o lines? It's because communication is at an allpro level. Brady is constantly communicating to the line making sure everyone is on the same page. We see Blake call out the mike, basically it. Can't hear what Linder is calling out, so can't comment on it. 

It's just very concerning that communication is such an issue at almost the mid point. This team needs the bye week more than anything to straighten things out. 

I'm seeing blown assignments across the entire line and that's all communication.

Neither one of us know what calls Linder is making but each guy on the line has players they are supposed to block and Cann and Norwell couldn't block their guy a few different times yesterday.  I don't recall Linder getting beat once.

(10-15-2018, 08:39 PM)jessepeck1213 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 08:21 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]You're essentially agreeing, except you are doing what every single person does and gives Linder a pass. Why? "Playing hurt". He's out there and I don't want to hear that nonsense.

The fact is this O-line was vastly overrated, it's not injuries. Norwell is looking like a complete scrub, Cann sucks, Parnell is trash, and Linder is ok. That's their performance right now... how the hell is that acceptable when the HEAD COACH is an OLINE guy? Enough with the injury excuse.

Regarding Cam he was graded the worst LT in the game last year. Teal glasses made him seem better.

Your argument lost all credibility when you pointed out cams PFF grade to use it against him and in the same breath called Linder average, when he is the 4th graded center in the league, according to PFF.

LOL 

Injuries don't matter and Linder sucks.  OK.  Might be overreacting just a bit here, TFQB.

Ok you guys are right, Linder is a god and all the starters are playing poorly because injuries and the HC who's an "OLINE guru" .

Lol, the excuses are real. Sometimes it's ok to take off the teal glasses. They just aren't playing well as a unit and it's because of communication issues.

I guess we will see how they play when they are "healthy".

(10-15-2018, 08:49 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Ok you guys are right, Linder is a god and all the starters are playing poorly because injuries and the HC who's an "OLINE guru" .

Lol, the excuses are real. Sometimes it's ok to take off the teal glasses. They just aren't playing well as a unit and it's because of communication issues.

I guess we will see how they play when they are "healthy".

If he is so bad why is he the number 4 ranked center?

(10-15-2018, 08:53 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 08:49 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Ok you guys are right, Linder is a god and all the starters are playing poorly because injuries and the HC who's an "OLINE guru" .

Lol, the excuses are real. Sometimes it's ok to take off the teal glasses. They just aren't playing well as a unit and it's because of communication issues.

I guess we will see how they play when they are "healthy".

If he is so bad why is he the number 4 ranked center?

When did I call the guy bad? He played very well LAST season. This season, he's been ok. It hurts an O-line when the offense doesn't get in a running rhythm to get them on a roll. It also means those DLINE guys are fresh, which doesn't help either. 

What I saw against Dal was the interior of the line get blown up. To suggest Linder has nothing to do with that and it's on the guys to his left and right, seems legit. Guy walks on water, I forgot.

We just disagree. I believe a line is a unit. They work as one. Communicate as one. Block as one. The guys that are put on islands sometimes are the tackles. The entire line IMO is not gelling for whatever reason, you guys want to blame injuries it's fine. I say communication. IMO injuries is such a weak excuse right now. 

I see four starters out there. Four. They should be able to make it work.

(10-15-2018, 08:49 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Ok you guys are right, Linder is a god and all the starters are playing poorly because injuries and the HC who's an "OLINE guru" .

Lol, the excuses are real. Sometimes it's ok to take off the teal glasses. They just aren't playing well as a unit and it's because of communication issues.

I guess we will see how they play when they are "healthy".

(10-15-2018, 09:02 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 08:53 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]If he is so bad why is he the number 4 ranked center?

When did I call the guy bad? He played very well LAST season. This season, he's been ok. It hurts an O-line when the offense doesn't get in a running rhythm to get them on a roll. It also means those DLINE guys are fresh, which doesn't help either. 

What I saw against Dal was the interior of the line get blown up. To suggest Linder has nothing to do with that and it's on the guys to his left and right, seems legit. Guy walks on water, I forgot.

We just disagree. I believe a line is a unit. They work as one. Communicate as one. Block as one. The guys that are put on islands sometimes are the tackles. The entire line IMO is not gelling for whatever reason, you guys want to blame injuries it's fine. I say communication. IMO injuries is such a weak excuse right now. 

I see four starters out there. Four. They should be able to make it work.

Constantly hyperbolizing the opposing point of view just makes you appear incapable of having a reasonable discussion on the topic.  

Sweeping injuries under the rug as meaningless does too. 

I look forward to reviewing the interior line play from that game to see if what you're saying has any merit.

(10-15-2018, 09:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 08:49 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Ok you guys are right, Linder is a god and all the starters are playing poorly because injuries and the HC who's an "OLINE guru" .

Lol, the excuses are real. Sometimes it's ok to take off the teal glasses. They just aren't playing well as a unit and it's because of communication issues.

I guess we will see how they play when they are "healthy".

(10-15-2018, 09:02 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]When did I call the guy bad? He played very well LAST season. This season, he's been ok. It hurts an O-line when the offense doesn't get in a running rhythm to get them on a roll. It also means those DLINE guys are fresh, which doesn't help either. 

What I saw against Dal was the interior of the line get blown up. To suggest Linder has nothing to do with that and it's on the guys to his left and right, seems legit. Guy walks on water, I forgot.

We just disagree. I believe a line is a unit. They work as one. Communicate as one. Block as one. The guys that are put on islands sometimes are the tackles. The entire line IMO is not gelling for whatever reason, you guys want to blame injuries it's fine. I say communication. IMO injuries is such a weak excuse right now. 

I see four starters out there. Four. They should be able to make it work.

Constantly hyperbolizing the opposing point of view just makes you appear incapable of having a reasonable discussion on the topic.  

Sweeping injuries under the rug as meaningless does too. 

I look forward to reviewing the interior line play from that game to see if what you're saying has any merit.

You need to review the tape to confirm the line played poorly? Blake was running from phantom pressure. 

It's not about sweeping injuries under the rug. There's a principle that most fans and players agree on, if you play don't use injury as an excuse. Simple as that. 

Fact remains that 4/5 starters played. They got their [BLEEP] kicked. The problems are deeper than just stating "injuries" an excuse for piss poor play.

As for the bolded part it's literally a sin around here to constructively critique Linder. Majority gets their panties in a bunch when anyone does so. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

(10-15-2018, 09:36 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 09:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Constantly hyperbolizing the opposing point of view just makes you appear incapable of having a reasonable discussion on the topic.  

Sweeping injuries under the rug as meaningless does too. 

I look forward to reviewing the interior line play from that game to see if what you're saying has any merit.

You need to review the tape to confirm the line played poorly? Blake was running from phantom pressure. 

It's not about sweeping injuries under the rug. There's a principle that most fans and players agree on, if you play don't use injury as an excuse. Simple as that. 

Fact remains that 4/5 starters played. They got their [BLEEP] kicked. The problems are deeper than just stating "injuries" an excuse for piss poor play.

I don't think injuries had anything to do with Norwell and Canns poor play.  Cann is going back to his usual self and Norwell hasn't been good all year.

---

its funny to me that you think its impossible for 2 guards to play poorly and a center play well

(10-15-2018, 09:36 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 09:18 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Constantly hyperbolizing the opposing point of view just makes you appear incapable of having a reasonable discussion on the topic.  

Sweeping injuries under the rug as meaningless does too. 

I look forward to reviewing the interior line play from that game to see if what you're saying has any merit.

You need to review the tape to confirm the line played poorly? Blake was running from phantom pressure. 

It's not about sweeping injuries under the rug. There's a principle that most fans and players agree on, if you play don't use injury as an excuse. Simple as that. 

Fact remains that 4/5 starters played. They got their [BLEEP] kicked. The problems are deeper than just stating "injuries" an excuse for piss poor play.

As for the bolded part it's literally a sin around here to constructively critique Linder. Majority gets their panties in a bunch when anyone does so. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Yeah. You're seem pretty confused about what I'm saying. 

I don't need to review the tape to see the line played poorly.  I talked all week long about the line facing a tough challenge in dallas and it turned out even worse than I thought.  There was nearly constant pressure quickly from the inside and outside. 

What I need to review is whether there's even a shred of merit to your claims that Linder is "OK at best this year" or whatever your overreacting opinion on him is at the moment. 

You just seem to hyperbolize the crap out of everything, making it very difficult to have rational discussion. 

All of this "it's a sin around here to critique" and "I get bashed for having this opinion" thing is way overwrought too. Might need to take a step back.  It's not as bad as you think. 

It's OK for people to disagree with you  - and it's OK for you to disagree with me and anyone else here.

(10-15-2018, 09:02 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 08:53 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]If he is so bad why is he the number 4 ranked center?

When did I call the guy bad? He played very well LAST season. This season, he's been ok. It hurts an O-line when the offense doesn't get in a running rhythm to get them on a roll. It also means those DLINE guys are fresh, which doesn't help either. 

What I saw against Dal was the interior of the line get blown up. To suggest Linder has nothing to do with that and it's on the guys to his left and right, seems legit. Guy walks on water, I forgot.

We just disagree. I believe a line is a unit. They work as one. Communicate as one. Block as one. The guys that are put on islands sometimes are the tackles. The entire line IMO is not gelling for whatever reason, you guys want to blame injuries it's fine. I say communication. IMO injuries is such a weak excuse right now. 

I see four starters out there. Four. They should be able to make it work.

How is the 4rh ranked center ok? Isnt that like, elite for the position? Or at least close to it. That's his rank for this year btw, not last.

(10-15-2018, 02:31 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2018, 01:53 PM)FBT Wrote: [ -> ]That couldn't have anything to do with the fact that Kessler was facing guys who are hoping to get a call from some team today and wasn't facing starting defenses, right?  

Kessler isn't a viable option to replace a healthy Bortles.  Bortles either gets better, or he doesn't.  Kessler isn't the solution.

That's all *we've* seen, but Kessler has a half a season sample size starting for a worse Browns team as a rookie and he held his own. There's no authority in an argument behind anyone flatly saying he isn't the solution. There is a not big but not super small sample size of Kessler being a fairly competent QB. And who knows maybe he has gotten better or more mature of the last couple of years.

From what I've seen Kessler's main advantage over Bortles is more accuracy, he's a more natural passer. I'm not sure we know he's any better in any other qualities. He doesn't seem to have the same arm strength and is definitely less athletic. He's a guy that needs a fairly clean pocket. With the current state of the offense, I'd say he'd actually be less successful than Blake.

Any QB is going to have issues behind this O-Line in its current state.

Kessler has a few qualities over Blake but he does compare unfavorably in velocity and mobility. Those two things are likely keeping him on the bench for now.

Given how poorly the line played last week, they may actually need Kessler in his intended role soon enough despite Blake's toughness.