I think GA needs to rewrite it's laws. I am ok with pursuit in the case of murder or rape, but that's about it. Other than that, I feel like citizen's arrest should have a similar standard as stand-your-ground. If a person is fleeing, armed pursuit should not be acceptable. Not that it matters. This case wasn't brought to the public's attention to make better laws, so most people will just argue the emotional undertones.
More and more coming out. He was not just looking in to see what was going on at the house. "Broken in" on 2/11 and cops called. The son saw him in the yard and confronted him, he reached in his waist and that spooked the son. He went and got his father and was armed. The guy who recorded the video was called by the home owner and he went to check it out and he was armed. He described the car to the police but they couldn't find him.
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/susp...Jhke22x4J/
Based on that previous interaction, it gives them reason to believe he was there to steal something and could have been armed. I'm not saying it was right to get out of the vehicle, but they were within their rights per the GA laws.
(05-12-2020, 10:24 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]More and more coming out. He was not just looking in to see what was going on at the house. "Broken in" on 2/11 and cops called. The son saw him in the yard and confronted him, he reached in his waist and that spooked the son. He went and got his father and was armed. The guy who recorded the video was called by the home owner and he went to check it out and he was armed. He described the car to the police but they couldn't find him.
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/susp...Jhke22x4J/
Based on that previous interaction, it gives them reason to believe he was there to steal something and could have been armed. I'm not saying it was right to get out of the vehicle, but they were within their rights per the GA laws.
Amazing how this is all coming out long after the fact,
after Hicky McHicksville and his son are in jail for killing another man. It's almost like someone is protecting them and trying to cover their own [BLEEP]. Hmmm, who would have motivation to do that?
(05-13-2020, 12:01 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-12-2020, 10:24 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]More and more coming out. He was not just looking in to see what was going on at the house. "Broken in" on 2/11 and cops called. The son saw him in the yard and confronted him, he reached in his waist and that spooked the son. He went and got his father and was armed. The guy who recorded the video was called by the home owner and he went to check it out and he was armed. He described the car to the police but they couldn't find him.
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/susp...Jhke22x4J/
Based on that previous interaction, it gives them reason to believe he was there to steal something and could have been armed. I'm not saying it was right to get out of the vehicle, but they were within their rights per the GA laws.
Amazing how this is all coming out long after the fact, after Hicky McHicksville and his son are in jail for killing another man. It's almost like someone is protecting them and trying to cover their own [BLEEP]. Hmmm, who would have motivation to do that?
The truth is the pure defense.
(05-13-2020, 12:01 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-12-2020, 10:24 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]More and more coming out. He was not just looking in to see what was going on at the house. "Broken in" on 2/11 and cops called. The son saw him in the yard and confronted him, he reached in his waist and that spooked the son. He went and got his father and was armed. The guy who recorded the video was called by the home owner and he went to check it out and he was armed. He described the car to the police but they couldn't find him.
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/susp...Jhke22x4J/
Based on that previous interaction, it gives them reason to believe he was there to steal something and could have been armed. I'm not saying it was right to get out of the vehicle, but they were within their rights per the GA laws.
Amazing how this is all coming out long after the fact, after Hicky McHicksville and his son are in jail for killing another man. It's almost like someone is protecting them and trying to cover their own [BLEEP]. Hmmm, who would have motivation to do that?
I'm not sure if you think that 911 calls and police reports are made up or not, but there is a reason multiple DAs passed this off and it's beyond just knowing them. When everything comes out, it is going to be very hard to win the case.
The AJC isn't redneck paper in Georgia, it is as liberal as you can get. With them publishing it, there has to be more there.
(05-13-2020, 12:01 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (05-12-2020, 10:24 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]More and more coming out. He was not just looking in to see what was going on at the house. "Broken in" on 2/11 and cops called. The son saw him in the yard and confronted him, he reached in his waist and that spooked the son. He went and got his father and was armed. The guy who recorded the video was called by the home owner and he went to check it out and he was armed. He described the car to the police but they couldn't find him.
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/susp...Jhke22x4J/
Based on that previous interaction, it gives them reason to believe he was there to steal something and could have been armed. I'm not saying it was right to get out of the vehicle, but they were within their rights per the GA laws.
Amazing how this is all coming out long after the fact, after Hicky McHicksville and his son are in jail for killing another man. It's almost like someone is protecting them and trying to cover their own [BLEEP]. Hmmm, who would have motivation to do that?
Wow... very deep insight.
I'm fed up with the media. I wish more of us could find common ground that our media needs to be fixed.
(05-12-2020, 10:24 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]More and more coming out. He was not just looking in to see what was going on at the house. "Broken in" on 2/11 and cops called. The son saw him in the yard and confronted him, he reached in his waist and that spooked the son. He went and got his father and was armed. The guy who recorded the video was called by the home owner and he went to check it out and he was armed. He described the car to the police but they couldn't find him.
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/susp...Jhke22x4J/
Based on that previous interaction, it gives them reason to believe he was there to steal something and could have been armed. I'm not saying it was right to get out of the vehicle, but they were within their rights per the GA laws.
There was no evidence he had committed a crime. There were no burglaries reported in the area. They are going to jail just like Hannah Payne and for the same reason, they had no business tying to play cop.
(05-13-2020, 08:26 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]I'm fed up with the media. I wish more of us could find common ground that our media needs to be fixed.
I'm with you on that. Abrery's Mom said "He was jogging. He was killed for the color of his skin", but admitted she had not watched the video.
(05-13-2020, 08:59 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-12-2020, 10:24 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]More and more coming out. He was not just looking in to see what was going on at the house. "Broken in" on 2/11 and cops called. The son saw him in the yard and confronted him, he reached in his waist and that spooked the son. He went and got his father and was armed. The guy who recorded the video was called by the home owner and he went to check it out and he was armed. He described the car to the police but they couldn't find him.
https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/susp...Jhke22x4J/
Based on that previous interaction, it gives them reason to believe he was there to steal something and could have been armed. I'm not saying it was right to get out of the vehicle, but they were within their rights per the GA laws.
There was no evidence he had committed a crime. There were no burglaries reported in the area. They are going to jail just like Hannah Payne and for the same reason, they had no business tying to play cop.
I disagree. I think that given the Way GA defines Burglary as "entering a dwelling with the intent to steal" then the act of him looking to make sure that there was no one around and then fleeing the scene would constitute evidence of intent to steal which in GA is a felony 1. Also, McMichael reported that he personally had something stolen from his truck and he was involved in a previous incident with Arbery at that same residence and there is video evidence of someone matching his description entering the house on multiple occasions.
Again, I think that we morally agree they acted stupidly. I don't like the GA law as written. But I think that given the fact pattern, it's going to be hard to prove criminal liability beyond a reasonable doubt. IF they positively identify Arbery as the guy on the previous videos/find a pawn-scrap ticket for copper piping, tools, the missing gun etc. then this case should be abandoned and thrown out. Now as far as civil liability, i think that's a different story. Public opinion is going to go a lot longer way in that arena than arguing suspected felony intent to steal vs. simple trespassing in a citizens arrest defense. This guy has a pension, he has assets, now they belong to the family. Get him to plead to a lesser crime with little to no jail time to avoid a trial, rewrite the law to exclude petty property crimes from citizens arrest and only allow citizens to follow the suspect for the officials.
(05-13-2020, 09:26 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2020, 08:59 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]There was no evidence he had committed a crime. There were no burglaries reported in the area. They are going to jail just like Hannah Payne and for the same reason, they had no business tying to play cop.
I disagree. I think that given the Way GA defines Burglary as "entering a dwelling with the intent to steal" then the act of him looking to make sure that there was no one around and then fleeing the scene would constitute evidence of intent to steal which in GA is a felony 1. Also, McMichael reported that he personally had something stolen from his truck and he was involved in a previous incident with Arbery at that same residence and there is video evidence of someone matching his description entering the house on multiple occasions.
Again, I think that we morally agree they acted stupidly. I don't like the GA law as written. But I think that given the fact pattern, it's going to be hard to prove criminal liability beyond a reasonable doubt. IF they positively identify Arbery as the guy on the previous videos/find a pawn-scrap ticket for copper piping, tools, the missing gun etc. then this case should be abandoned and thrown out. Now as far as civil liability, i think that's a different story. Public opinion is going to go a lot longer way in that arena than arguing suspected felony intent to steal vs. simple trespassing in a citizens arrest defense. This guy has a pension, he has assets, now they belong to the family. Get him to plead to a lesser crime with little to no jail time to avoid a trial, rewrite the law to exclude petty property crimes from citizens arrest and only allow citizens to follow the suspect for the officials.
Hannah Payne personally witnessed the incident for which she killed her man giving her a significantly more acceptable reason for her actions, so the verdict in that one will foreshadow this one since the reasoning of the McMichaels doesn't reach the same standard. I don't think this will be a tough case for the jury and those guys are going to jail for a long time.
(05-13-2020, 09:44 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2020, 09:26 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree. I think that given the Way GA defines Burglary as "entering a dwelling with the intent to steal" then the act of him looking to make sure that there was no one around and then fleeing the scene would constitute evidence of intent to steal which in GA is a felony 1. Also, McMichael reported that he personally had something stolen from his truck and he was involved in a previous incident with Arbery at that same residence and there is video evidence of someone matching his description entering the house on multiple occasions.
Again, I think that we morally agree they acted stupidly. I don't like the GA law as written. But I think that given the fact pattern, it's going to be hard to prove criminal liability beyond a reasonable doubt. IF they positively identify Arbery as the guy on the previous videos/find a pawn-scrap ticket for copper piping, tools, the missing gun etc. then this case should be abandoned and thrown out. Now as far as civil liability, i think that's a different story. Public opinion is going to go a lot longer way in that arena than arguing suspected felony intent to steal vs. simple trespassing in a citizens arrest defense. This guy has a pension, he has assets, now they belong to the family. Get him to plead to a lesser crime with little to no jail time to avoid a trial, rewrite the law to exclude petty property crimes from citizens arrest and only allow citizens to follow the suspect for the officials.
Hannah Payne personally witnessed the incident for which she killed her man giving her a significantly more acceptable reason for her actions, so the verdict in that one will foreshadow this one since the reasoning of the McMichaels doesn't reach the same standard. I don't think this will be a tough case for the jury and those guys are going to jail for a long time.
Hopefully.
And hopefully it stops idiots from thinking they should be the ones to arrest people instead of the police.
(05-13-2020, 09:26 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2020, 08:59 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]There was no evidence he had committed a crime. There were no burglaries reported in the area. They are going to jail just like Hannah Payne and for the same reason, they had no business tying to play cop.
I disagree. I think that given the Way GA defines Burglary as "entering a dwelling with the intent to steal" then the act of him looking to make sure that there was no one around and then fleeing the scene would constitute evidence of intent to steal which in GA is a felony 1. Also, McMichael reported that he personally had something stolen from his truck and he was involved in a previous incident with Arbery at that same residence and there is video evidence of someone matching his description entering the house on multiple occasions.
Again, I think that we morally agree they acted stupidly. I don't like the GA law as written. But I think that given the fact pattern, it's going to be hard to prove criminal liability beyond a reasonable doubt. IF they positively identify Arbery as the guy on the previous videos/find a pawn-scrap ticket for copper piping, tools, the missing gun etc. then this case should be abandoned and thrown out. Now as far as civil liability, i think that's a different story. Public opinion is going to go a lot longer way in that arena than arguing suspected felony intent to steal vs. simple trespassing in a citizens arrest defense. This guy has a pension, he has assets, now they belong to the family. Get him to plead to a lesser crime with little to no jail time to avoid a trial, rewrite the law to exclude petty property crimes from citizens arrest and only allow citizens to follow the suspect for the officials.
I keep wanting to ask this: how does a pawn ticket prove anything? It proves that Arbery had probably committed the previous crimes, yes, but the 911 calls here said that there was a black guy running down the street. And again, to the whole "fleeing" or "fighting" defense, they had guns out as they got out of the truck. They're not police. They're armed vigilantes ("hicks", yes) who are, as far as Arbery knew, attempting to rob, kidnap and/or kill him. That put him in fight or flight, and he chose fight. When an unarmed man--and if he wasn't unarmed, someone show me the gun that wasn't at the scene when the police arrived--is trying to get out of a situation where he's being robbed, kidnapped and/or killed, and he's unarmed, and there's no evidence that anyone involved saw anything other than "a black guy running down the street", where is the justification anywhere for the use of lethal force? Even if they saw him come out of the house, prove that they knew he was there to commit "a violent felony"--not just a felony. They had no proof that he's the one who'd been in there before, and unless he was walking out with stacks of copper pipe and wiring, they had no evidence of commission of a felony. Even if we go as favorably as we can towards the McDirtbags or whatever their names are, citizens arrest in the state of Georgia does not say anything about jumping out of a truck cowboy-style with shotguns at the ready. It does not say anything about lethal force, and no well-trained police officer would have opened fire, because all anyone articulated on the 911 calls was "a black guy running down the street."
With no copper pipe, no wire, no gun. Just a black guy running down the street after maybe/maybe not having been seen committing a misdemeanor. A police officer would not say, "Well he was thinking about committing a felony," and expect that explanation to stick. Arbery was murdered, end of story.
Can someone show where there is evidence that items were previously stolen from the house? This whole "pawn shop ticket as evidence" thing is based on something being stolen, but every report I've seen says that nothing was ever stolen from that house.
(05-13-2020, 10:28 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]Round and Round...
Yes, it's pretty much going to be until there's a verdict. But at least we'll get an investigation and trial now, unlike the last few months when this was swept under the rug.
(05-13-2020, 10:38 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Can someone show where there is evidence that items were previously stolen from the house? This whole "pawn shop ticket as evidence" thing is based on something being stolen, but every report I've seen says that nothing was ever stolen from that house.
There were reports, but you are correct we haven't seen any documented evidence. There was supposedly a broken water pipe issue, multiple other videos, something about fishing equipment ~$1,000, but if there is no documentation by police then it is not a pattern other than him showing up on camera. Even the 2/11 incident should be listed as they called 911.
From the reports they say they have reported these to the cops, other than the fishing equipment, so there should be some paper trail. For some reason no one has leaked them or gotten that info.
(05-13-2020, 11:40 AM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ] (05-13-2020, 10:38 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Can someone show where there is evidence that items were previously stolen from the house? This whole "pawn shop ticket as evidence" thing is based on something being stolen, but every report I've seen says that nothing was ever stolen from that house.
There were reports, but you are correct we haven't seen any documented evidence. There was supposedly a broken water pipe issue, multiple other videos, something about fishing equipment ~$1,000, but if there is no documentation by police then it is not a pattern other than him showing up on camera. Even the 2/11 incident should be listed as they called 911.
From the reports they say they have reported these to the cops, other than the fishing equipment, so there should be some paper trail. For some reason no one has leaked them or gotten that info.
The 2/11 incident was a non-emergency call not 911 according to the AJC and the property owner.
(05-13-2020, 10:38 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Can someone show where there is evidence that items were previously stolen from the house? This whole "pawn shop ticket as evidence" thing is based on something being stolen, but every report I've seen says that nothing was ever stolen from that house.
Is there even a pawn shop ticket, or is that just being thrown around here as a hypothetical? I haven't seen it reported, just speculated on by people trying to find a way to make the shooting not a criminal offense.
The problem with the 24/7 news cycle, the media wanting to get the story RIGHT NOW, social media, etc., is stories are "breaking" in haste without any facts other than "XYZ happened" and the opinions starts flying. Fingers are pointed, emotions are high, divisions are caused, panic is induced, and for what? How many times are stories backtracked because of conjecture?
This happens with cases like this, it's happening daily with Covid as well as other stories. I don't care who "breaks the story" I care that who reports it actually gets it right to the best of their ability with actual fact finding. Sadly that won't happen because we're in the day and age of "who is first, wins" which means money is made, rather than "who is right, wins."