Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

As we learn more of the facts of the story a few things to note.

There had been prior burglaries in the area recently.  I don't know if Arbery lived in the neighborhood or not, but if not it would be kind of unusual (in my opinion) for him to be walking around there.

In the surveillance video he walks by the house under construction and appears to briefly stop and look around.  It doesn't appear that he was "just out for a jog".  He then enters the home under construction (trespassing) comes out a moment later and looks around again, then it looks like he goes around towards the back of the home.

During this time police dispatch receives a call regarding a possible burglary in progress.  In the surveillance video it appears that a neighbor across the street is looking toward the home under construction.  Arbery is then seen running (not jogging) from the home.  Shortly after police and an ambulance are seeing heading in the same direction that he ran off.

One other thing to note is that Arbery had a history of juvenile and adult felony arrests.

I'm not saying that the shooting was justified, but it appears to me that it was certainly not a "hate crime" and race had nothing to do with it.  It also doesn't appear that Arbery was "just out for a jog".

It almost seems like somebody's trying to turn this into a racial thing.

(05-10-2020, 09:06 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]It almost seems like somebody's trying to turn this into a racial thing.

I hate this story already...

(05-10-2020, 09:06 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]It almost seems like somebody's trying to turn this into a racial thing.

Just exercising their second amendment rights... 

Lots of people seem to want to do that these days.

It's funny, the government asks everyone to wear a mask in public, and people want to exercise their right to open carry, so we wind up with masked gunmen walking around.

(05-10-2020, 06:05 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of reasonable takes in this thread.  

The way I see it, if we allow civilians, non-police people, to pull a gun on someone in a public area and make a citizen's arrest, based on suspicion, then it's open season on everyone.   That's a bad situation.  Someone can approach you in a public area, pull a gun, and tell you that you are under arrest?  And they don't need to have a badge or authority of any kind?   If that's the law, then they need to change the law.

---

(05-09-2020, 11:24 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn’t appear that he was a black man “just jogging” ... Still not justified as I see it but let’s cool down on the racism as a motive.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...lling.html

It appears he walked into a home under construction, and walked back out a few minutes later without stealing anything.  Heck I've done that myself many times.  Sometimes I'm curious about what the inside of the house is going to look like.  

By the way, stopping and looking inside a house under construction doesn't mean he wasn't out jogging.  He might have just stopped to have a look.

Based on what I know, I don’t believe it was justified. However, walking in that home was illegal, and I’d bet money that his intention wasn’t just to look around. In georgia, the crime wouldn’t actually be trespassing but instead loitering and prowling or burglary. So, if those two guys saw him do this, then they did see him commit a crime, and they would be justified in detaining him under citizens arrest. 

There’s a lot missing from this and I don’t think it’s a modern day lynching.

(05-10-2020, 09:57 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-10-2020, 06:05 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of reasonable takes in this thread.  

The way I see it, if we allow civilians, non-police people, to pull a gun on someone in a public area and make a citizen's arrest, based on suspicion, then it's open season on everyone.   That's a bad situation.  Someone can approach you in a public area, pull a gun, and tell you that you are under arrest?  And they don't need to have a badge or authority of any kind?   If that's the law, then they need to change the law.

---

It appears he walked into a home under construction, and walked back out a few minutes later without stealing anything.  Heck I've done that myself many times.  Sometimes I'm curious about what the inside of the house is going to look like.  

By the way, stopping and looking inside a house under construction doesn't mean he wasn't out jogging.  He might have just stopped to have a look.

Based on what I know, I don’t believe it was justified. However, walking in that home was illegal, and I’d bet money that his intention wasn’t just to look around. In georgia, the crime wouldn’t actually be trespassing but instead loitering and prowling or burglary. So, if those two guys saw him do this, then they did see him commit a crime, and they would be justified in detaining him under citizens arrest. 

There’s a lot missing from this and I don’t think it’s a modern day lynching.

It has to be a felony to precipitate a citizens arrest.

The McMichaels were dumb to pursue somebody over a property crime.
It might have been legal to do so, but they should have let the police handle it.
I don't know what the Black Panthers hope to accomplish by marching through Satilla Shores with a rifle and a scowl.
But whatever, something something 2nd Amendment.

Not a hate crime.

Definitely Murder 2.

Give them 25 years and be done with it.

(05-10-2020, 09:57 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-10-2020, 06:05 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of reasonable takes in this thread.  

The way I see it, if we allow civilians, non-police people, to pull a gun on someone in a public area and make a citizen's arrest, based on suspicion, then it's open season on everyone.   That's a bad situation.  Someone can approach you in a public area, pull a gun, and tell you that you are under arrest?  And they don't need to have a badge or authority of any kind?   If that's the law, then they need to change the law.

---

It appears he walked into a home under construction, and walked back out a few minutes later without stealing anything.  Heck I've done that myself many times.  Sometimes I'm curious about what the inside of the house is going to look like.  

By the way, stopping and looking inside a house under construction doesn't mean he wasn't out jogging.  He might have just stopped to have a look.

Based on what I know, I don’t believe it was justified. However, walking in that home was illegal, and I’d bet money that his intention wasn’t just to look around. In georgia, the crime wouldn’t actually be trespassing but instead loitering and prowling or burglary. So, if those two guys saw him do this, then they did see him commit a crime, and they would be justified in detaining him under citizens arrest. 

There’s a lot missing from this and I don’t think it’s a modern day lynching.

I don't know the answer to these questions, so maybe someone can answer: 

Is it legal to make a citizen's arrest by force?   
Is it legal for a private citizen to pull a gun on someone and forcibly detain them?  
If one makes a citizen's arrest at gunpoint, and the suspect resists, is it legal to shoot them?  
Is "I was making a citizen's arrest" a valid defense if there is a conflict and someone gets shot and killed?

(05-10-2020, 10:10 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Not a hate crime.

Definitely Murder 2.

Give them 25 years and be done with it.

I tend to agree.

(05-10-2020, 10:11 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-10-2020, 09:57 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Based on what I know, I don’t believe it was justified. However, walking in that home was illegal, and I’d bet money that his intention wasn’t just to look around. In georgia, the crime wouldn’t actually be trespassing but instead loitering and prowling or burglary. So, if those two guys saw him do this, then they did see him commit a crime, and they would be justified in detaining him under citizens arrest. 

There’s a lot missing from this and I don’t think it’s a modern day lynching.

I don't know the answer to these questions, so maybe someone can answer: 

Is it legal to make a citizen's arrest by force?   
Is it legal for a private citizen to pull a gun on someone and forcibly detain them?  
If one makes a citizen's arrest at gunpoint, and the suspect resists, is it legal to shoot them?  
Is "I was making a citizen's arrest" a valid defense if there is a conflict and someone gets shot and killed?

It is legal to make a citizens arrest by force if you witness or have direct knowledge of a felony.  If you're acting with just cause and you're attacked you can defend yourself under stand your ground.  

This case comes down to a.) Did he actually take something form the house, b.) did the suspects have knowledge that he took something from the house, c.) were they trying to detain him or question him (which is not allowed and they already said they told him they wanted to "talk" and d.) would a reasonable person in the victims perspective have perceived them as a threat.  

So again, I think this is going to come down to a felony murder/ negligent homicide charge that can hopefully be plead without putting the state through a trial, and potential acquittal.  Because when I put on my defense lawyer hat, if there is one ticket to a metals recycler in Georgia that shows that the victim sold a piece of copper or pawned the gun that was previously stolen from the McMichael's residence then there's no way 12 people are going to send these guys to jail regardless of how the law is technically written.

(05-10-2020, 10:10 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Not a hate crime.

Definitely Murder 2.

Give them 25 years and be done with it.

I somewhat agree with you.

It was not a "hate crime".

Under Georgia statute I would call it voluntary manslaughter.

Max penalty is 20 years.

Based on Georgia law and what we know so far, this will fall under involuntary manslaughter with a maximum 10-year sentence. There is not enough to make this voluntary (so far) and the DA would risk letting some folks walk free overplaying their hand based on the court of public opinion and outcry.

(05-10-2020, 10:08 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]The McMichaels were dumb to pursue somebody over a property crime.
It might have been legal to do so, but they should have let the police handle it.
I don't know what the Black Panthers hope to accomplish by marching through Satilla Shores with a rifle and a scowl.
But whatever, something something 2nd Amendment.

Probably the same thing these clowns were trying to accomplish:

(05-10-2020, 11:47 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-10-2020, 10:08 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]The McMichaels were dumb to pursue somebody over a property crime.
It might have been legal to do so, but they should have let the police handle it.
I don't know what the Black Panthers hope to accomplish by marching through Satilla Shores with a rifle and a scowl.
But whatever, something something 2nd Amendment.

Probably the same thing these clowns were trying to accomplish:

Yep, a statement against Government overreach and faux hate crimes are the same things.

(05-10-2020, 11:55 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-10-2020, 11:47 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Probably the same thing these clowns were trying to accomplish:

Yep, a statement against faux Government overreach and faux hate crimes are the same things.

One faux deserves another.

Also, "sow into the wind, reap the whirlwind."
If you want to be in a place where every orderly part is marked off by a private guard holding a machine gun, move to Nicaragua or Haiti or El Salvador. 

We don't have that kind of ish here, and we don't need to start now.

(05-10-2020, 11:47 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-10-2020, 10:08 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]The McMichaels were dumb to pursue somebody over a property crime.
It might have been legal to do so, but they should have let the police handle it.
I don't know what the Black Panthers hope to accomplish by marching through Satilla Shores with a rifle and a scowl.
But whatever, something something 2nd Amendment.

Probably the same thing these clowns were trying to accomplish:

I think we should get those two groups together and put it on TV.

(05-10-2020, 12:21 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-10-2020, 11:55 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, a statement against faux Government overreach and faux hate crimes are the same things.

One faux deserves another.

Also, "sow into the wind, reap the whirlwind."
If you want to be in a place where every orderly part is marked off by a private guard holding a machine gun, move to Nicaragua or Haiti or El Salvador. 

We don't have that kind of ish here, and we don't need to start now.

Gretchen whitmer would disagree

(05-09-2020, 03:21 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: [ -> ]

All the usual race hustlers are in on this one, so you know the MSM got their marching orders.
The mythical tale is already being spun. 
He was unarmed.  He was out jogging.  He was killed in cold blood.  It was racially-motivated.
None of this is true.  The video shows clearly enough.
Arbery attacked the man holding the shotgun, punched him several times, and tried to take the shotgun away.
Arbery had both hands on the shotgun when the first round went off.  Abrery was not unarmed. 
It is likely that Arbery shot himself by trying to wrench the shotgun away from a man who had his finger inside the trigger guard.

Curious.

You assert he was armed and that he iniitiated the attack on two armed men.

Why didn't he, I dunno, use the weapon he had?!?

You say the murder was not racist in nature.

What of these photos?



More to come...

(05-10-2020, 10:11 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-10-2020, 09:57 AM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Based on what I know, I don’t believe it was justified. However, walking in that home was illegal, and I’d bet money that his intention wasn’t just to look around. In georgia, the crime wouldn’t actually be trespassing but instead loitering and prowling or burglary. So, if those two guys saw him do this, then they did see him commit a crime, and they would be justified in detaining him under citizens arrest. 

There’s a lot missing from this and I don’t think it’s a modern day lynching.

I don't know the answer to these questions, so maybe someone can answer: 

Is it legal to make a citizen's arrest by force?   
Is it legal for a private citizen to pull a gun on someone and forcibly detain them?  
If one makes a citizen's arrest at gunpoint, and the suspect resists, is it legal to shoot them?  
Is "I was making a citizen's arrest" a valid defense if there is a conflict and someone gets shot and killed?

1. A person can make a citizens arrest with force if they know definitively that a crime occurred. The most common example is shoplifting when the thief decides to act up. Home Depot, surprisingly, fights with people all the time. 

2. Having a gun isn’t “pulling a gun”. If they’re trying to detain him because they know he was inside that house, they can possess a gun during the detainment. Similarly, if he didn’t do anything wrong, it’s reasonable for him to believe they are robbing him. If he knows he burglarized that’s house, and he knows that they’re there to detain him, he doesn’t have a right to self defense. I guess we won’t know what he knew. 

3. Resisting detainment isn’t enough to get shot. If he did commit a crime, and he decides to fight of the gun, then it’s THAT act that justifies getting shot.