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Most of Trump's lies are hyperbole for the sake of his own ego. This isn't a new type of lie, nor was it uncommon historically. He speaks in absolutes, seemingly out of habit, and the catalyst is often his desire to defend himself against a criticism. Imo, his lies are pretty easy to spot, and their also fairly easy to dismiss as long as you don't start with the bias that he is an evil person. When a Trump supporter says they don't take him literally, it is an acknowledgment that Trump overstates his position, but also a recognition that he would do said act if it were in his power. So, it's easy for a Trump supporter to justify why Trump hasn't or can't complete an objective if it's not within his power.

Trump also lies by denial, which admittedly frustrates me, but this is negated by the fact that admission and apology in our current culture almost never results in something positive. I am to the point where I don't think anyone should apologize publicly, because the outrage culture does not reward people for making the right choice. Again, even if people in our society could forgive, I think Trump would still be prone to denial. He is a narcissist, and I think it would be difficult for his view of himself to align with reality. I don't appreciate this type of lie. In a different era, I think it would and could sink Trump as a politician, but our current culture has created an environment that gives his supporters an excuse to overlook this. Note: This also isn't a new lie, and you can't find politicians on both sides of the aisle that practice denial. The difference is that they wouldn't be able to get away with it under this level of scrutiny.

I will take lies of exaggeration all day over the type that has become more prevalent in our politicians and talking heads. Exaggeration is easy to spot, but lies of omission (that have become common in the MSM) and restructuring, in which politicians and talking heads manipulate the context to fit their narrative, are much harder to spot. This is not exclusive to one side or the other, but it's every bit as common as what we see from Donald Trump. I just think it's much more dangerous, because these are polished manipulations. I am sure there are some people who are fooled by Trump's sales pitches, but most people recognize it for what it is. I personally don't care. In fact, I prefer it to what has become acceptable in modern politics.

Rand Paul:

"We cannot give up liberty for security. Local law enforcement can and should be handling these situations in our cities but there is no place for federal troops or unidentified federal agents rounding people up at will."


https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1285270380127629315

I appreciate Rand Paul.

(07-21-2020, 07:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Rand Paul:

"We cannot give up liberty for security. Local law enforcement can and should be handling these situations in our cities but there is no place for federal troops or unidentified federal agents rounding people up at will."


https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1285270380127629315

Again, context is key. Are fed agents rounding up people “at will”? According to the DHS secretary, over 40 people have been detained and charged with federal crimes because of vandalism on federal properties. The Portland police are only protecting city properties. 

According to the DHS Secretary, unmarked vehicles are used because marked vehicles will be targeted for violence. Rioters seen committing acts of vandalism and violence on federal property are spotted and then followed until they are separated from the rest of the rioters before apprehension in order to avoid more violence. Again, this is being done because Portland officials will not protect federal properties. 

Seems logical to me.

Yeah, I am ok with this, but recognize it's a slippery slope. I still appreciate Rand Paul's consistency.

(07-21-2020, 09:34 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I am ok with this, but recognize it's a slippery slope. I still appreciate Rand Paul's consistency.

I like Rand Paul too but sometimes I think he tries too hard to sound contrarian in order to project an image of independence.

(07-21-2020, 09:28 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2020, 07:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Rand Paul:

"We cannot give up liberty for security. Local law enforcement can and should be handling these situations in our cities but there is no place for federal troops or unidentified federal agents rounding people up at will."


https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1285270380127629315

Again, context is key. Are fed agents rounding up people “at will”? According to the DHS secretary, over 40 people have been detained and charged with federal crimes because of vandalism on federal properties. The Portland police are only protecting city properties. 

According to the DHS Secretary, unmarked vehicles are used because marked vehicles will be targeted for violence. Rioters seen committing acts of vandalism and violence on federal property are spotted and then followed until they are separated from the rest of the rioters before apprehension in order to avoid more violence. Again, this is being done because Portland officials will not protect federal properties. 

Seems logical to me.

The DHS guy hit the points hard today on the news, "We're only working the streets around the federal property not any other part of Portland. We expect Portland Police to do the job but they aren't. We're using the same standard police tactics that Portland PD would use if they were doing their jobs like they are supposed to be doing them. Our officers are properly uniformed, including identification, to deal with the violent environment that Portland PD and the Mayor are permitting. We aren't storm troopers or secret police like the media is intimating, we are following the law with probable cause to arrest the people we detain. If you're showing up to the Courthouse at Midnight with weapons and wearing fatigues and start committing violence then we're going to arrest you. If you're peacefully protesting we will support and protect you but you might think about the people you're around who have no intention of being peaceful and move away from them."

Good for him.

Now if we could only rein in Maxine Waters.

(07-21-2020, 09:40 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2020, 09:34 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I am ok with this, but recognize it's a slippery slope. I still appreciate Rand Paul's consistency.

I like Rand Paul too but sometimes I think he tries too hard to sound contrarian in order to project an image of independence.

I don't think this is the case with Rand Paul. I think he is principled, which is a good thing. It frustrates me that the only time he gets national attention is when his principles support a left wing talking point. I would like to know how he would solve the problem of Portland and Seattle mayors refusing to enforce the law.

(07-21-2020, 10:27 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2020, 09:40 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I like Rand Paul too but sometimes I think he tries too hard to sound contrarian in order to project an image of independence.

I don't think this is the case with Rand Paul. I think he is principled, which is a good thing. It frustrates me that the only time he gets national attention is when his principles support a left wing talking point. I would like to know how he would solve the problem of Portland and Seattle mayors refusing to enforce the law.

I would like to know why he released an intentionally uninformed and misleading tweet. He’s catering to something, and it ain’t the full truth.

(07-21-2020, 10:18 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Now if we could only rein in Maxine Waters.

Maxine Waters doesn't believe the hype about police brutality or she would not have put her life in danger confronting a cop that way.

(07-21-2020, 10:09 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2020, 09:28 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Again, context is key. Are fed agents rounding up people “at will”? According to the DHS secretary, over 40 people have been detained and charged with federal crimes because of vandalism on federal properties. The Portland police are only protecting city properties. 

According to the DHS Secretary, unmarked vehicles are used because marked vehicles will be targeted for violence. Rioters seen committing acts of vandalism and violence on federal property are spotted and then followed until they are separated from the rest of the rioters before apprehension in order to avoid more violence. Again, this is being done because Portland officials will not protect federal properties. 

Seems logical to me.

The DHS guy hit the points hard today on the news, "We're only working the streets around the federal property not any other part of Portland. We expect Portland Police to do the job but they aren't. We're using the same standard police tactics that Portland PD would use if they were doing their jobs like they are supposed to be doing them. Our officers are properly uniformed, including identification, to deal with the violent environment that Portland PD and the Mayor are permitting. We aren't storm troopers or secret police like the media is intimating, we are following the law with probable cause to arrest the people we detain. If you're showing up to the Courthouse at Midnight with weapons and wearing fatigues and start committing violence then we're going to arrest you. If you're peacefully protesting we will support and protect you but you might think about the people you're around who have no intention of being peaceful and move away from them."

Good for him.

I agree with all that, but I suspect the DHS guy wasn't telling the whole truth.  Witnesses are saying that the officers are going blocks away from the federal buildings.  Also, the photo and videos we have show the officers not wearing ID and not saying who they are or who sent them.

(07-21-2020, 10:58 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2020, 10:09 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The DHS guy hit the points hard today on the news, "We're only working the streets around the federal property not any other part of Portland. We expect Portland Police to do the job but they aren't. We're using the same standard police tactics that Portland PD would use if they were doing their jobs like they are supposed to be doing them. Our officers are properly uniformed, including identification, to deal with the violent environment that Portland PD and the Mayor are permitting. We aren't storm troopers or secret police like the media is intimating, we are following the law with probable cause to arrest the people we detain. If you're showing up to the Courthouse at Midnight with weapons and wearing fatigues and start committing violence then we're going to arrest you. If you're peacefully protesting we will support and protect you but you might think about the people you're around who have no intention of being peaceful and move away from them."

Good for him.

I agree with all that, but I suspect the DHS guy wasn't telling the whole truth.  Witnesses are saying that the officers are going blocks away from the federal buildings.  Also, the photo and videos we have show the officers not wearing ID and not saying who they are or who sent them.

I can’t attest to ID, but DHS said they are following the perps until they are separated from other rioters. That likely means they’re making arrests a distance away from federal property.

(07-21-2020, 10:58 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2020, 10:09 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]The DHS guy hit the points hard today on the news, "We're only working the streets around the federal property not any other part of Portland. We expect Portland Police to do the job but they aren't. We're using the same standard police tactics that Portland PD would use if they were doing their jobs like they are supposed to be doing them. Our officers are properly uniformed, including identification, to deal with the violent environment that Portland PD and the Mayor are permitting. We aren't storm troopers or secret police like the media is intimating, we are following the law with probable cause to arrest the people we detain. If you're showing up to the Courthouse at Midnight with weapons and wearing fatigues and start committing violence then we're going to arrest you. If you're peacefully protesting we will support and protect you but you might think about the people you're around who have no intention of being peaceful and move away from them."

Good for him.

I agree with all that, but I suspect the DHS guy wasn't telling the whole truth.  Witnesses are saying that the officers are going blocks away from the federal buildings.  Also, the photo and videos we have show the officers not wearing ID and not saying who they are or who sent them.

You probably missed this part in the homebiscuit post. ...

"Rioters seen committing acts of vandalism and violence on federal property are spotted and then followed until they are separated from the rest of the rioters before apprehension in order to avoid more violence."

---

Remember when Rand Paul went to Canada to have hernia surgery?  What a slap in the face to the American medical institutes.

(07-21-2020, 11:06 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2020, 10:58 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with all that, but I suspect the DHS guy wasn't telling the whole truth.  Witnesses are saying that the officers are going blocks away from the federal buildings.  Also, the photo and videos we have show the officers not wearing ID and not saying who they are or who sent them.

I can’t attest to ID, but DHS said they are following the perps until they are separated from other rioters. That likely means they’re making arrests a distance away from federal property.

Right, there isn't really a "good" choice for the officers.  There are downsides and dangers to arrests no matter where they attempt them.  But I have to believe that they can do better than this.  If the local 3 percenters or some other unofficial militia decided to go around in vans kidnapping people, would it look different?  No.

They should make it look different.  Wear ID.  Declare verbally what agency they are with, why the person is under arrest, and where they are being taken.  As former Scotus chief Earl Warren would say, police like it's your job.  Be professional about it.

(07-21-2020, 11:28 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2020, 11:06 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I can’t attest to ID, but DHS said they are following the perps until they are separated from other rioters. That likely means they’re making arrests a distance away from federal property.

Right, there isn't really a "good" choice for the officers.  There are downsides and dangers to arrests no matter where they attempt them.  But I have to believe that they can do better than this.  If the local 3 percenters or some other unofficial militia decided to go around in vans kidnapping people, would it look different?  No.

They should make it look different.  Wear ID.  Declare verbally what agency they are with, why the person is under arrest, and where they are being taken.  As former Scotus chief Earl Warren would say, police like it's your job.  Be professional about it.

They aren't trained for this.

I’ve waited for more information to come out but I have to say this so very disturbing to me. The responsibility for law and order is on local municipalities and police departments. When the local officials do not enforce the law it’s on the people of that community to make changes not the federal government acting in place of a dysfunctional police department or mayor. If changes can’t be made to the local government people have to choice to leave and relocate. But the last precedent that should be set is federal agents can come in and enforce local laws at Will. There’s an argument for them defending federal buildings but this seems bigger than that.

If reports are true they are moving in unmarked vehicles and detaining people outside the local judicial system that’s just beyond the scope of their power.

I get it something has to be done, but that doesn’t excuse anything being done. The constitution must be followed at all cost, otherwise our entire system is eroded from within.

Just think of Obama would have used this type of action after the unite the right violence. Perspective it matters

(07-21-2020, 10:32 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-21-2020, 10:18 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Now if we could only rein in Maxine Waters.

Maxine Waters doesn't believe the hype about police brutality or she would not have put her life in danger confronting a cop that way.

Without a mask on for her near death self, she must not be afraid of the virus like she acts