(10-11-2020, 04:46 PM)nejagsfan Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2020, 04:12 PM)Ordar Wrote: [ -> ]It’s over. We need someone much better
yeah cuz I don't fix everything.. no quarterback can perform well with the team and coaching staff that we have
(10-11-2020, 04:14 PM)JaguarWC Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, lets draft another QB with our first pick... Especially one who doesn't perform as good as this one with better talent around them. Quit it already. QB is not the issue. Stability and growth are. Our team needs to grow together and learn. We have a 6th round draft pick who is performing just fine. Would we rather have Haskins??? NO. Jones???? NO. Murray??? Maybe... Lock??? No... We can't shuffle QB's every year and think we are going to improve. Lets stick with Minshew... BUILD around him (i.e. line, etc.). Too many people making knee jerk reactions.
exactly look at the list of the quarterbacks that went in the first round and how they're performing now on crappy teams... A lot of them first overall pick
Not to defend the coaching staff- but they were not over/under throwing passes, missing their reads. The o-line this year has been doing their job, but they can’t hold a pocket forever! Sometimes the QB needs to just thread the damn needle. He has to get quicker, there is no way around it.
Minshew plays smart, doesn't make dumb throws, and is a pretty accurate passer with a very good TD to INT ratio. Looks to me like he can do everything not related to arm strength. I think his inability to drive the ball downfield sharply is what will be his downfall.
Probably, if he were on a good NFL team and not our trashbag trainwreck, he'd be even more productive and his limitations could be worked around.
He missed a few open guys, but there are much bigger problems than Minshew. O-line has regressed. Far too many free rushers.
I am starting to dislike Gruden's play calling and use of personnel.
Last two possessions before the half, including one with a first and goal, and Robinson is on the sideline. He is telegraphing teams what we are going to do with the ball with his personnel choices. Thompson sees the field too much to have 6 rushes in 5 games. Every time he is on the field you know we are going to pass. You can't allow a defense that kind of heads up. And yet another game where Shenault has a great first half and then disappears from the game plan in the second except for a few gimmick plays .
Another team that can't stop the run and we hardly run the ball. We run well in the first half, he runs a few plays up the gut in the second half that don't get blocked well, and he abandons the run. Two games in a row where we are in the game going in the second half and he abandons the run.
(10-11-2020, 04:59 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2020, 04:46 PM)nejagsfan Wrote: [ -> ]yeah cuz I don't fix everything.. no quarterback can perform well with the team and coaching staff that we have
exactly look at the list of the quarterbacks that went in the first round and how they're performing now on crappy teams... A lot of them first overall pick
Not to defend the coaching staff- but they were not over/under throwing passes, missing their reads. The o-line this year has been doing their job, but they can’t hold a pocket forever! Sometimes the QB needs to just thread the damn needle. He has to get quicker, there is no way around it.
I think we’ve been so cultured by bad O-Line play that anything better than awful seems good to us?
The o-line is not good
(10-11-2020, 04:57 PM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2020, 04:54 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]Disagree. O-line has been performing well (less so today, mind you), RB is decent, TE is decent, WR can improve. But a better QB would have had us in this game. Houston has a bad defense. That sack-fumble in the fourth that resulted in 7 points for them was terrible. Minshew missed a lot of plays today. We need better. He still has time to show us differently but, given the current information, we have to go in a different direction.
Don't forget the underthrow to Conley which caused him to come back to the ball and get tackled - which led to the fumble/missed points.
And that's just the easy one to point out.
Agreed. Minshew is short and not that mobile. That combination forces a QB to change the trajectory of their throws... meaning the arc of their throws is typically higher coming out of their hand to get over the arms of the D-linemen. This causes overthrows on short routes and underthrows on deep routes. There were several examples of this today, with the underthrow to Conley that should have been a walk-in TD being most noteworthy. If you are shorter, you better be real athletic or have great footwork in the pocket to create your own throwing lanes. He is not Drew Brees, who has always been a technician with his footwork in the pocket since college. Its a problem that I do not see Minshew getting past.
A lot of this is on coaching I think. Minshew was holding the ball a lot last year and even in the 1st game. Now he is getting the ball out quick and not taking shots down the field. It appears to be the gameplan and they have coached him to do this.
He definitely is struggling, but it isn't all on him.
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(10-11-2020, 05:07 PM)CSTblank Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2020, 04:59 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ]Not to defend the coaching staff- but they were not over/under throwing passes, missing their reads. The o-line this year has been doing their job, but they can’t hold a pocket forever! Sometimes the QB needs to just thread the damn needle. He has to get quicker, there is no way around it.
I think we’ve been so cultured by bad O-Line play that anything better than awful seems good to us?
The o-line is not good
Its not great, but not bad. Just like the WR's, the TE's, the RB, and the QB. Average across the board. Nothing elite.
(10-11-2020, 05:07 PM)CSTblank Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2020, 04:59 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ]Not to defend the coaching staff- but they were not over/under throwing passes, missing their reads. The o-line this year has been doing their job, but they can’t hold a pocket forever! Sometimes the QB needs to just thread the damn needle. He has to get quicker, there is no way around it.
I think we’ve been so cultured by bad O-Line play that anything better than awful seems good to us?
The o-line is not good
Or the reverse.. Minshew climbs the pocket, or bails on the pocket when he has no reason to. I don’t know if he just can’t see or he assumes a sack is coming any second, but he needs to stay put often. Several times today he was scrambling instead of hitting the open receiver or rolling out of a clean pocket throwing off his back foot short of the receiver.
He has good receivers that are doing their job- he just isn’t hitting them.
I’d like to see his percentage of passes completed that are check downs. They have to be quite excessive compared to the rest of the league.
Ok found this- I am willing to bet Minshew is Captain Checkdown this year...
Highest Two-Year Checkdown Rates on Third Down | 2018-19
Rank Player Tot. Attempts Checkdowns Checkdown %
1 Gardner Minshew 128 14 10.9%
2 Eli Manning 202 22 10.9%
3 Deshaun Watson 323 34 10.5%
4 Jeff Driskel 96 8 8.3%
5 Case Keenum 222 18 8.1%
6 Blake Bortles 117 9 7.7%
7 Dak Prescott 335 23 6.9%
8 Alex Smith 102 7 6.9%
9 Drew Brees 237 16 6.8%
10 Nick Foles 108 7 6.5%
Today showed that Minshew is not a Franchise QB. Sorry to say it but we need a new QB if we want to win.
Our kicking situation left at least 9 points off the board for us and you guys are blaming Minshew?
I'm convinced many of you aren't even watching these games.
(10-11-2020, 05:43 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Our kicking situation left at least 9 points off the board for us and you guys are blaming Minshew?
I'm convinced many of you aren't even watching these games.
3 points left on the board. If he made the first one he missed, he wouldn't have gotten a shot at the second one after the pick. Are you watching the games? Quit being so dramatic.
.gif "Laughing")
(10-11-2020, 05:43 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Our kicking situation left at least 9 points off the board for us and you guys are blaming Minshew?
I'm convinced many of you aren't even watching these games.
They need to blame the QB; I guess as jags fans were so jaded at the position.
We shouldn’t pass up on a QB if we have a shot (read: don’t give away kings ransom) but at the same time, Minshew is legit one of the few bright spots left.
(10-11-2020, 05:47 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2020, 05:43 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Our kicking situation left at least 9 points off the board for us and you guys are blaming Minshew?
I'm convinced many of you aren't even watching these games.
3 points left on the board. If he made the first one he missed, he wouldn't have gotten a shot at the second one after the pick. Are you watching the games? Quit being so dramatic.
No, I would say 9; he missed two gimmes and after that we went for it on 4th and 1 in kicking range, I guarantee you if he makes the other two the coaches send the FG unit on the field with the defense playing decent for once.
(10-11-2020, 05:47 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2020, 05:43 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Our kicking situation left at least 9 points off the board for us and you guys are blaming Minshew?
I'm convinced many of you aren't even watching these games.
3 points left on the board. If he made the first one he missed, he wouldn't have gotten a shot at the second one after the pick. Who is not watching the games? Quit being so dramatic.
Maybe the 2nd one does or doesn't happen. Still missed kicks that took points off the board.
Just like that stupid play call that motion'd Minshew out wide and Robinson fumbled on. That play was because of our pathetic kicking situation. It was a dumb play call as well.
Minshew missed some throws at the end of that game, but that's because he was forced to throw every down and the Defense knew it. Constant pressure. Game is completely different if our Kicking game isn't a joke atm.
Notice the thread title isn’t the following:
“ Minshew the only problem on this team. “
“ Minshew is a turnover machine. “
“ Minshew missed another field goal. “
“ Minshew 0 sacks this year. “
“ Minshew another busted first round pick in Taven. “
Let’s not scope creep.
(10-11-2020, 05:51 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2020, 05:47 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]3 points left on the board. If he made the first one he missed, he wouldn't have gotten a shot at the second one after the pick. Who is not watching the games? Quit being so dramatic.
Maybe the 2nd one does or doesn't happen. Still missed kicks that took points off the board.
Just like that stupid play call that motion'd Minshew out wide and Robinson fumbled on. That play was because of our pathetic kicking situation. It was a dumb play call as well.
Minshew missed some throws at the end of that game, but that's because he was forced to throw every down and the Defense knew it. Constant pressure. Game is completely different if our Kicking game isn't a joke atm.
I think we go for that one regardless... but I agree that the play call was HORRENDOUS.
(10-11-2020, 05:57 PM)Corriewf Wrote: [ -> ]Notice the thread title isn’t the following:
“ Minshew the only problem on this team. “
“ Minshew is a turnover machine. “
“ Minshew missed another field goal. “
“ Minshew 0 sacks this year. “
“ Minshew another busted first round pick in Taven. “
Let’s not scope creep.
I wouldn't expect decent reading comprehension from this board.
Trade him to another team, watch them work him into their system and win with him while the Jags draft another first round bust. No QB makes every throw or every play. The guy has played good enough to win if the team wasn’t garbage.
Maybe the Saints, Steelers, Bucs, Cowboys or just a solid team will trade a low pick for him and let him be their franchise QB
(10-11-2020, 06:21 PM)PS9 Wrote: [ -> ]Trade him to another team, watch them work him into their system and win with him while the Jags draft another first round bust. No QB makes every throw or every play. The guy has played good enough to win if the team wasn’t garbage.
Maybe the Saints, Steelers, Bucs, Cowboys or just a solid team will trade a low pick for him and let him be their franchise QB
With our luck, that could happen. We’re the jaguars. The future awaits
(10-11-2020, 03:48 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Still 11 games left. No reason to make a decision right now on him. I'll wait to see how he plays in these last 11 and then make a decision
(10-11-2020, 04:14 PM)JaguarWC Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, lets draft another QB with our first pick... Especially one who doesn't perform as good as this one with better talent around them. Quit it already. QB is not the issue. Stability and growth are. Our team needs to grow together and learn. We have a 6th round draft pick who is performing just fine. Would we rather have Haskins??? NO. Jones???? NO. Murray??? Maybe... Lock??? No... We can't shuffle QB's every year and think we are going to improve. Lets stick with Minshew... BUILD around him (i.e. line, etc.). Too many people making knee jerk reactions.
I agree with both of you. I've said before he does at least the whole season to prove himself and I'm sticking with that. I do think that people like to have knee jerk reactions and they have gotten more frequent regarding him the past few weeks. Even in games where he hasn't been the biggest problem and actually did enough to help the team win. People thing that getting someone like Trevor Lawrence may solve a lot of the Jags problems but that may not be the case. I still believe he is good enough to be a starter. He makes some mistakes but he still looks like a starter IMO and looks much better than some of the other starting young QB's around his age.
(10-11-2020, 04:21 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-11-2020, 04:18 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]I think Minshew is still on the team next year. We need talent, and he has it. He may not be elite, but no reason to not have a vet to allow the rookie to develop (if we end up going that way). Minshew is a team first guy. I think he could be a long term backup for us, even if he does not end up being the guy. Even better, we somehow start winning some games (seems like a major long-shot).
He wont be a long term backup here. Someone else will give him a shot if we dont.
I agree, he is not going to decide to be a long term backup. Unless he ends up having injury issues and just wants to stay on a team or something like that. He's going to want a chance to go somewhere else and start. And if he's healthy and able he will. At the very least he will try and do what a Case Keenum has done, like find a good team like the Vikings were at the time and try and do something with them. I could see him going to a good team like the Saints/Steelers (after their QB's retire, but they still aren't bad enough to get a top draft pick) and vying for a starting job.
(10-11-2020, 05:04 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]He missed a few open guys, but there are much bigger problems than Minshew. O-line has regressed. Far too many free rushers.
I am starting to dislike Gruden's play calling and use of personnel.
Last two possessions before the half, including one with a first and goal, and Robinson is on the sideline. He is telegraphing teams what we are going to do with the ball with his personnel choices. Thompson sees the field too much to have 6 rushes in 5 games. Every time he is on the field you know we are going to pass. You can't allow a defense that kind of heads up. And yet another game where Shenault has a great first half and then disappears from the game plan in the second except for a few gimmick plays .
Another team that can't stop the run and we hardly run the ball. We run well in the first half, he runs a few plays up the gut in the second half that don't get blocked well, and he abandons the run. Two games in a row where we are in the game going in the second half and he abandons the run.
I don't understand why Jay keeps going away from the run when it proves to be effective. Listening to some of his press conferences it kind of sounds like he feels that the Jags run the ball enough in these games. He needs to focus on what works.