(10-12-2020, 09:59 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2020, 09:24 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Herbert can make throws that most QBs in this league cant
A lot can't, but a lot can. Get one of them that can.
Oh yes, you’re right. I forgot how easy it is to do so. Let’s go out back to the QB picking patch and grab one.
Better tell Caldwell, not sure why he didn’t think of that
(10-12-2020, 10:37 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2020, 09:59 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]A lot can't, but a lot can. Get one of them that can.
Oh yes, you’re right. I forgot how easy it is to do so. Let’s go out back to the QB picking patch and grab one.
Better tell Caldwell, not sure why he didn’t think of that
The difference is, Caldwell has gotten paid millions over his 8 seasons here to get it right. And he has not. It is prudent of him to have sold his house; it might have been his best, forward-thinking decision he has made in Jacksonville so far.
(10-12-2020, 10:18 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2020, 09:59 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]A lot can't, but a lot can. Get one of them that can.
Wasnt you the guy that not that long ago that said arm strength wasn't one of the more important traits for a QB?
You don't need to be Favre or Mahomes or whoever, but you have to have enough arm to make all of the throws. There are several important throws that Minshew glaringly cannot make.
I wouldn’t throw in the towel on the Shew yet. Let’s give him the entire season and see how it plays out.
(10-12-2020, 01:54 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]Houston was also overloading the run at that point anyway, so we may not have gotten it regardless.
It’s week 5. Why didn’t Gruden have a plan ready in case the worst run defense in the league was keyed in on your RB? Every where 30 went, he had three defenders in his vicinity. Whether he was running the ball or out in a pattern. Surely Gruden could have drawn something up in the dirt to exploit that.
(10-12-2020, 10:14 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2020, 09:35 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]They aren't stacking the box and daring you to pass the 40% of the time that Thompson is out there because they already know what to defend.
It also makes the odds of a run go up significantly during the other 60% so it would make perfect sense based on odds to stack the box a lot when Thompson is on the sideline.
It's what happens when your incompetent OC telegraphs 40% of the plays.
Think about it this way: if you were a defensive coordinator game planning our offense... what would you do?
You'd look at our offense an evaluate it first. So far this season, we have had a decent running game with a nice little find at RB as a rookie free agent, and an improved O-Line (particularly in the running game at least). Our passing game is West Coast philosophy (i.e. short, quick passing game, occasional shots and lots of check downs). Most of our passing yards have been from yards after catch on short routes and check downs. How would you stop this?
Answer: Single high safety with the SS down, box loaded, and a Cover 3 zone behind it. Occasional zone or man blitz. You could play Cover 2 against us if you felt good about your corners tackling against outside runs. That is exactly how Houston defended us and shut our running game down. That is also similar to what Miami did to us. I did not get to see the whole Cincy game, so I'm not sure there. They are daring Minshew to throw deep... no one appears to be afraid of that. They are allowing short completions that can be tackled quickly (hence Minshew's high completion %), but are not afraid of him taking deep shots. In other words, they took pour running game away, dared us to throw deep, and we didn't get it done. I am a little afraid the "book" is out on Minshew now. He is going to have to show he can expand his game and hurt teams downfield, or it will get worse.
You are totally making this more complicated than how Gruden is making it for a DC.
Through 4 games, a RB that is getting 40% of the snaps, is averaging 1 carry per game. These people study trends so they have seen enough through 4 games to realize when Thompson is on the field we are passing the ball.
So in these situations the defense knows they can pin their ears back and rush the passer and play coverage with total impunity.
Now considering how poor their run defense is and the fact Gruden said he plans on giving Robinson 20-25 carries, you can expect almost all of those carries will occur when Thompson is on the sideline. In order for the jags to run that many times, they would need to use about 40% of their total plays to do that. That means that the 40% has to come out of the remaining 60% of the plays that Gruden doesn't telegraph to be a pass by putting Thompson on the field.
Based on odds there now is a 2 to 1 chance that the jags will run on plays where Thompson is on the sideline. Because of that, the defense now knows they can stack the box in those situation because they can now expect to see a run play 2 out of 3 snaps just based on pure odds.
You have now given the defense the ability to call the right type of formations and get the proper personnel on the field to best defend those plays 80% of the time.
Even for the worst defenses in the league it becomes like taking candy from a baby and we have seen defenses taking total advantage of that for at least the last two games.
No offense or QB can excel when you give the defense an 80% confidence level that they can get the right type of formations and the right personnel on the field to best defend the play they are most likely to see.
(10-12-2020, 10:45 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2020, 10:37 PM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]Oh yes, you’re right. I forgot how easy it is to do so. Let’s go out back to the QB picking patch and grab one.
Better tell Caldwell, not sure why he didn’t think of that
The difference is, Caldwell has gotten paid millions over his 8 seasons here to get it right. And he has not. It is prudent of him to have sold his house; it might have been his best, forward-thinking decision he has made in Jacksonville so far.
I was being facetious; as the poster just said to go get one [a franchise]. As we've seen with Caldwell, it's not as simple as that. It is a crapshoot, and very difficult to find one.
As Vic used to say, he went out back to the QB tree and shook it, and nothing came out.
(10-13-2020, 12:30 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn’t throw in the towel on the Shew yet. Let’s give him the entire season and see how it plays out.
Lol well they don’t really have a choice do they? Can’t draft Lawerence today.
It’s not a hard concept. The Jags are bad and will continue being bad this season. If they are picking top 4 and believe one of the QBs is a franchise guy, they’ll take him. It will most likely be with a new regime and they don’t care about Minshew being “the guy”. They will want their own guy. Minshew will be a good backup to have (like Fitz) but ultimately, he’s not winning a SB as the franchise guy or giving the Jags numerous playoff appearances.
Watching the game last night, 40 year old drew brees passes have more zing moving across the screen than Minshew.
(10-13-2020, 09:33 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]Watching the game last night, 40 year old drew brees passes have more zing moving across the screen than Minshew.
No he doesn't lol. Drew Brees arm was legitimately looking pretty shot last night. I think that's one reason they kept inserting Taysom Hill into the lineup to help move the ball down the field. Drew did have some better throws in the second half, but you can see that playing as long as he has, has caught up to him and his arm.
(10-13-2020, 09:42 AM)mal234 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 09:33 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]Watching the game last night, 40 year old drew brees passes have more zing moving across the screen than Minshew.
No he doesn't lol. Drew Brees arm was legitimately looking pretty shot last night. I think that's one reason they kept inserting Taysom Hill into the lineup to help move the ball down the field. Drew did have some better throws in the second half, but you can see that playing as long as he has, has caught up to him and his arm.
Dude, you need to stop the mancrush and change your avatar to like James Robinson or Chark. You're embarrassing yourself cus the velocity on this throws is slower than Brees.
(10-13-2020, 09:48 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 09:42 AM)mal234 Wrote: [ -> ]No he doesn't lol. Drew Brees arm was legitimately looking pretty shot last night. I think that's one reason they kept inserting Taysom Hill into the lineup to help move the ball down the field. Drew did have some better throws in the second half, but you can see that playing as long as he has, has caught up to him and his arm.
Dude, you need to stop the mancrush and change your avatar to like James Robinson or Chark. You're embarrassing yourself cus the velocity on this throws is slower than Brees.
lol. He does not currently look worse than Drew when it comes to throwing. And you are the same guy that said that Brian Hoyer (who has always had a very weak looking arm) was making better throws than Gardner in that Patriots game against the Chiefs. Where he ended up getting benched because he was struggling to move the team down the field.
You are not serious with these comments, you just dislike Gardner and want him gone regardless. Just say you want him gone regardless instead of making these untrue and laughable statements about how his throws/arm looks compared to Drew (as he is currently playing) and Brian Hoyer.
If Gardner is traded (to possibly a better situation) then I will change my avatar to someone else. Though, I will still root for him to successful. I really like him and some of you guys are being ridiculous with your OTT comments about/ disdain for him. He's nowhere is bad as you are making him out to be. And you might want to be careful what you wish for as far as him wanting off this team/benched, whatever.
I honestly didn't see anything wrong with Minshew after that last game. Aside from a few bad decisions and a few bad throws, he held his own. I think the problems are of course O-line and defense.. I can't see The Jags going after Lawrence in the draft when they have so many glaring needs on both lines..
(10-13-2020, 09:48 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 09:42 AM)mal234 Wrote: [ -> ]No he doesn't lol. Drew Brees arm was legitimately looking pretty shot last night. I think that's one reason they kept inserting Taysom Hill into the lineup to help move the ball down the field. Drew did have some better throws in the second half, but you can see that playing as long as he has, has caught up to him and his arm.
Dude, you need to stop the mancrush and change your avatar to like James Robinson or Chark. You're embarrassing yourself cus the velocity on this throws is slower than Brees.
Brees has lost alot of his zip. Anyone with two hands and a flashlight can see it
(10-13-2020, 10:03 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 09:48 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, you need to stop the mancrush and change your avatar to like James Robinson or Chark. You're embarrassing yourself cus the velocity on this throws is slower than Brees.
Brees has lost alot of his zip. Anyone with two hands and a flashlight can see it
Yeah and I'm not trying to pick on Drew or anything like that. I really like Drew, I always have. And heck Truth be told, Gardner could learn from doing some of the things that Drew has done to be successful in his long career. But he has a lost a lot of zip and his throws aren't looking very good. His throws was looking rough in that first half of the game last night and he's made shaky throws this season. I think that's why they keep throwing Taysom Hill into the lineup. Granted he is 41 and I think his age is catching up to him. It happens. He's been fortunate to have a good long career.
(10-13-2020, 09:33 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]Watching the game last night, 40 year old drew brees passes have more zing moving across the screen than Minshew.
Unless you're being factious, you're being silly. Come on.
Anyway, arm strength is probably the most overrated quality of a QB. If Minshew ends up flaming out it won't be because of his ability or lack thereof to throw the ball 70 yards.
(10-13-2020, 04:49 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (10-12-2020, 10:14 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]Think about it this way: if you were a defensive coordinator game planning our offense... what would you do?
You'd look at our offense an evaluate it first. So far this season, we have had a decent running game with a nice little find at RB as a rookie free agent, and an improved O-Line (particularly in the running game at least). Our passing game is West Coast philosophy (i.e. short, quick passing game, occasional shots and lots of check downs). Most of our passing yards have been from yards after catch on short routes and check downs. How would you stop this?
Answer: Single high safety with the SS down, box loaded, and a Cover 3 zone behind it. Occasional zone or man blitz. You could play Cover 2 against us if you felt good about your corners tackling against outside runs. That is exactly how Houston defended us and shut our running game down. That is also similar to what Miami did to us. I did not get to see the whole Cincy game, so I'm not sure there. They are daring Minshew to throw deep... no one appears to be afraid of that. They are allowing short completions that can be tackled quickly (hence Minshew's high completion %), but are not afraid of him taking deep shots. In other words, they took pour running game away, dared us to throw deep, and we didn't get it done. I am a little afraid the "book" is out on Minshew now. He is going to have to show he can expand his game and hurt teams downfield, or it will get worse.
You are totally making this more complicated than how Gruden is making it for a DC.
Through 4 games, a RB that is getting 40% of the snaps, is averaging 1 carry per game. These people study trends so they have seen enough through 4 games to realize when Thompson is on the field we are passing the ball.
So in these situations the defense knows they can pin their ears back and rush the passer and play coverage with total impunity.
Now considering how poor their run defense is and the fact Gruden said he plans on giving Robinson 20-25 carries, you can expect almost all of those carries will occur when Thompson is on the sideline. In order for the jags to run that many times, they would need to use about 40% of their total plays to do that. That means that the 40% has to come out of the remaining 60% of the plays that Gruden doesn't telegraph to be a pass by putting Thompson on the field.
Based on odds there now is a 2 to 1 chance that the jags will run on plays where Thompson is on the sideline. Because of that, the defense now knows they can stack the box in those situation because they can now expect to see a run play 2 out of 3 snaps just based on pure odds.
You have now given the defense the ability to call the right type of formations and get the proper personnel on the field to best defend those plays 80% of the time.
Even for the worst defenses in the league it becomes like taking candy from a baby and we have seen defenses taking total advantage of that for at least the last two games.
No offense or QB can excel when you give the defense an 80% confidence level that they can get the right type of formations and the right personnel on the field to best defend the play they are most likely to see.
I think you are over-simplifying it too much. And you are changing your arguments (I am guessing because you realize you were wrong in your first one now). I will chalk that up to you learning. Good for you.
Thompson is on the field in more obvious passing situations, so yah, teams will be playing pass then. On third and long, it really doesn't matter who is on the field... the defense will be playing it as an obvious passing situation. Gruden clearly trusts Thompson in the passing game more than Robinson, either with pass pro or receiving. Thompson has been on the field for 35% of the offensive snaps this year, with the majority being on 3rd down. Its the down and distance or game situation dictating the defense more than the personnel. I don't think you're exactly cracking the DaVinci Code that teams are going to defend against the pass more on 3rd down and medium to long, or when they are playing from behind later in the game.
minshew isn't way jags stink. put him with a team like the chiefs,or ravans ,and he would be winning super bowls. Even with the raiders he would be winning,raiders beat the chiefs in kanas city,and carr isn't tht good of a qb. Minshew is better then carr.
(10-13-2020, 10:31 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 09:33 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]Watching the game last night, 40 year old drew brees passes have more zing moving across the screen than Minshew.
Unless you're being factious, you're being silly. Come on.
Anyway, arm strength is probably the most overrated quality of a QB. If Minshew ends up flaming out it won't be because of his ability or lack thereof to throw the ball 70 yards.
Arm strength's importance doesn't equal being able to throw it 70 yards.