(10-13-2020, 11:32 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 10:31 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]Unless you're being factious, you're being silly. Come on.
Anyway, arm strength is probably the most overrated quality of a QB. If Minshew ends up flaming out it won't be because of his ability or lack thereof to throw the ball 70 yards.
Arm strength's importance doesn't equal being able to throw it 70 yards.
Sure it does. It also applies to the velocity you have on the ball on intermediate passes. Minshew has plenty of arm strength for that (he was certainly capable earlier in the season and last year). He's going to sink or swim based on his decision making, finesse and accuracy (same thing guys like Brees and Romo were/are good at). If he struggles he's not going to make it and it will have nothing to do with the fact that he's not as strong as some of the players with cannons.
I remember reading an article a while back that showed that stronger armed QBs tend to be less accurate over the course of their careers anyway.
(10-13-2020, 10:58 AM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 04:49 AM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]You are totally making this more complicated than how Gruden is making it for a DC.
Through 4 games, a RB that is getting 40% of the snaps, is averaging 1 carry per game. These people study trends so they have seen enough through 4 games to realize when Thompson is on the field we are passing the ball.
So in these situations the defense knows they can pin their ears back and rush the passer and play coverage with total impunity.
Now considering how poor their run defense is and the fact Gruden said he plans on giving Robinson 20-25 carries, you can expect almost all of those carries will occur when Thompson is on the sideline. In order for the jags to run that many times, they would need to use about 40% of their total plays to do that. That means that the 40% has to come out of the remaining 60% of the plays that Gruden doesn't telegraph to be a pass by putting Thompson on the field.
Based on odds there now is a 2 to 1 chance that the jags will run on plays where Thompson is on the sideline. Because of that, the defense now knows they can stack the box in those situation because they can now expect to see a run play 2 out of 3 snaps just based on pure odds.
You have now given the defense the ability to call the right type of formations and get the proper personnel on the field to best defend those plays 80% of the time.
Even for the worst defenses in the league it becomes like taking candy from a baby and we have seen defenses taking total advantage of that for at least the last two games.
No offense or QB can excel when you give the defense an 80% confidence level that they can get the right type of formations and the right personnel on the field to best defend the play they are most likely to see.
I think you are over-simplifying it too much. And you are changing your arguments (I am guessing because you realize you were wrong in your first one now). I will chalk that up to you learning. Good for you.
Thompson is on the field in more obvious passing situations, so yah, teams will be playing pass then. On third and long, it really doesn't matter who is on the field... the defense will be playing it as an obvious passing situation. Gruden clearly trusts Thompson in the passing game more than Robinson, either with pass pro or receiving. Thompson has been on the field for 35% of the offensive snaps this year, with the majority being on 3rd down. Its the down and distance or game situation dictating the defense more than the personnel. I don't think you're exactly cracking the DaVinci Code that teams are going to defend against the pass more on 3rd down and medium to long, or when they are playing from behind later in the game.
35% of the plays is way more than obvious passing situations or third downs.
We had 1st and goal from the 6 yard line towards the end of the 1st half and Robinson never saw the field again until the 3rd qtr. Obvious passing situation? Third down? That brilliant decision and trust in Thompson by your lover boy Gruden ended with zero points.
The only thing making that an obvious passing situation was the fact Thompson being out there.
The fact that you argument is now based on having to pretend to pretend that Thompson is only out there on third downs or obvious passing situations just shows that you that you fallen flat on your face in this argument. Will just chalk that up to never having a factual argument in the first place.
Enjoy your ignorance. You must be a very blissful person. Lol!
Also the fact that the guy who Gruden "trusts" and plays only in obvious passing situations and third downs, only has 10 receptions the entire year further shows that you are nothing more than a clown.
(10-13-2020, 01:30 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 10:58 AM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]I think you are over-simplifying it too much. And you are changing your arguments (I am guessing because you realize you were wrong in your first one now). I will chalk that up to you learning. Good for you.
Thompson is on the field in more obvious passing situations, so yah, teams will be playing pass then. On third and long, it really doesn't matter who is on the field... the defense will be playing it as an obvious passing situation. Gruden clearly trusts Thompson in the passing game more than Robinson, either with pass pro or receiving. Thompson has been on the field for 35% of the offensive snaps this year, with the majority being on 3rd down. Its the down and distance or game situation dictating the defense more than the personnel. I don't think you're exactly cracking the DaVinci Code that teams are going to defend against the pass more on 3rd down and medium to long, or when they are playing from behind later in the game.
35% of the plays is way more than obvious passing situations or third downs.
We had 1st and goal from the 6 yard line towards the end of the 1st half and Robinson never saw the field again until the 3rd qtr. Obvious passing situation? Third down? That brilliant decision and trust in Thompson by your lover boy Gruden ended with zero points.
The only thing making that an obvious passing situation was the fact Thompson being out there.
The fact that you argument is now based on having to pretend to pretend that Thompson is only out there on third downs or obvious passing situations just shows that you that you fallen flat on your face in this argument. Will just chalk that up to never having a factual argument in the first place.
Enjoy your ignorance. You must be a very blissful person. Lol!
Oops.... I must have hit a nerve. You're getting emotional again.
.gif "Laughing")
First, I never said he is "only" out there on 3rd downs, I said the "majority" of the time. Pay attention to the details my man. There are other obvious passing situations that come up during a game on 1st or 2nd down as well, like trailing by 2 scores in the 2nd half (which we have had more than our fair share of). One thing that escapes your lack of Football IQ is that we have a rookie starting at running back that had zero OTA reps. The hardest part of being a rookie running back is NOT carrying the ball, its pass protection. Clearly Gruden understands this and does not want the kid on the field in more obvious passing situations because he wants to keep Minshew's head on his shoulders... something your enlightened self does not quite understand. BTW, we ran it with Thompson on 2nd and Goal from the 6 for a 3 yard gain... did you like that?
And I have been crystal clear that I don't like Gruden and his play-calling at times is brutal. And I even agree with your assessment in certain situations, that I mentioned in earlier posts. I will be happy when this entire FO and coaching staff is released at season's end.
But your child-like football logic is just embarrassing to witness. So far, you ingenious arguments have included: a) defending how a 3.7 YPC average is "excellent" because its equal to the Buffalo Bills 29th ranked rushing attack; b) claiming our offense only averages 15 rushes per game, something a 12-year old with Google can disprove in 5 seconds; c) that you have cracked the DaVinci Code and deciphered when Thompson is on the field we are passing, when the MAJORITY of the time it is an obvious passing down anyway; and d) a simple-minded assumption that Thompson is on the field for passing downs purely to be a receiving threat. lmao I look forward to another emotional reply!
(10-13-2020, 09:53 AM)mal234 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 09:48 AM)Jagsfan32277 Wrote: [ -> ]Dude, you need to stop the mancrush and change your avatar to like James Robinson or Chark. You're embarrassing yourself cus the velocity on this throws is slower than Brees.
You are not serious with these comments, you just dislike Gardner and want him gone regardless. Just say you want him gone regardless instead of making these untrue and laughable statements about how his throws/arm looks compared to Drew (as he is currently playing) and Brian Hoyer.
If Gardner is traded (to possibly a better situation) then I will change my avatar to someone else. Though, I will still root for him to successful. I really like him and some of you guys are being ridiculous with your OTT comments about/ disdain for him. He's nowhere is bad as you are making him out to be. And you might want to be careful what you wish for as far as him wanting off this team/benched, whatever.
I want him gone. Go back in time and trade those 2 1's to move up for Justin Herbert. Did you see that lazer td throw on a rope to Keenan Allen. Minshew can only dream of making that throw.
(10-13-2020, 02:26 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 01:30 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]35% of the plays is way more than obvious passing situations or third downs.
We had 1st and goal from the 6 yard line towards the end of the 1st half and Robinson never saw the field again until the 3rd qtr. Obvious passing situation? Third down? That brilliant decision and trust in Thompson by your lover boy Gruden ended with zero points.
The only thing making that an obvious passing situation was the fact Thompson being out there.
The fact that you argument is now based on having to pretend to pretend that Thompson is only out there on third downs or obvious passing situations just shows that you that you fallen flat on your face in this argument. Will just chalk that up to never having a factual argument in the first place.
Enjoy your ignorance. You must be a very blissful person. Lol!
Oops.... I must have hit a nerve. You're getting emotional again.
First, I never said he is "only" out there on 3rd downs, I said the "majority" of the time. Pay attention to the details my man. There are other obvious passing situations that come up during a game on 1st or 2nd down as well, like trailing by 2 scores in the 2nd half (which we have had more than our fair share of). One thing that escapes your lack of Football IQ is that we have a rookie starting at running back that had zero OTA reps. The hardest part of being a rookie running back is NOT carrying the ball, its pass protection. Clearly Gruden understands this and does not want the kid on the field in more obvious passing situations because he wants to keep Minshew's head on his shoulders... something your enlightened self does not quite understand. BTW, we ran it with Thompson on 2nd and Goal from the 6 for a 3 yard gain... did you like that?
And I have been crystal clear that I don't like Gruden and his play-calling at times is brutal. And I even agree with your assessment in certain situations, that I mentioned in earlier posts. I will be happy when this entire FO and coaching staff is released at season's end.
But your child-like football logic is just embarrassing to witness. So far, you ingenious arguments have included: a) defending how a 3.7 YPC average is "excellent" because its equal to the Buffalo Bills 29th ranked rushing attack; b) claiming our offense only averages 15 rushes per game, something a 12-year old with Google can disprove in 5 seconds; c) that you have cracked the DaVinci Code and deciphered when Thompson is on the field we are passing, when the MAJORITY of the time it is an obvious passing down anyway; and d) you assume that Thompson is on the field for passing downs purely to be a receiving threat. lmao I look forward to another emotional reply!
You can keep on deluding yourself with the the idea that Gruden hasn't been getting heavily criticized for not running the ball enough and quitting on the run despite the fact that he himself has admitted he needs to give Robinson many more carries even though he continues to pull him for Thompson in run situations letting the defense know there is no run threat in the backfield.
You can keep on deluding yourself that Robinson didn't come out of college considered a good pass blocking back or the fact that he has yet to be credited for missing a block in pass protection.
You can keep on deluding yourself that Thompson is a better receiving option than than Robinson even though he has been far less productive and has had far fewer impact plays than Robinson catching the ball.
You can keep on deluding yourself that Gruden's use of Thompson has had any meaningful results outside of letting the defense know to prepare for a pass play.
You can keep deluding yourself that defenses haven't picked up on Gruden's trends or that he is being out coached defenses with glaring weaknesses that any competent OC would attack not avoid.
You can also keep deluding yourself that I am the emotional one while you post emojis like a jilted little school girl.
(10-13-2020, 03:26 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 02:26 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]Oops.... I must have hit a nerve. You're getting emotional again.
First, I never said he is "only" out there on 3rd downs, I said the "majority" of the time. Pay attention to the details my man. There are other obvious passing situations that come up during a game on 1st or 2nd down as well, like trailing by 2 scores in the 2nd half (which we have had more than our fair share of). One thing that escapes your lack of Football IQ is that we have a rookie starting at running back that had zero OTA reps. The hardest part of being a rookie running back is NOT carrying the ball, its pass protection. Clearly Gruden understands this and does not want the kid on the field in more obvious passing situations because he wants to keep Minshew's head on his shoulders... something your enlightened self does not quite understand. BTW, we ran it with Thompson on 2nd and Goal from the 6 for a 3 yard gain... did you like that?
And I have been crystal clear that I don't like Gruden and his play-calling at times is brutal. And I even agree with your assessment in certain situations, that I mentioned in earlier posts. I will be happy when this entire FO and coaching staff is released at season's end.
But your child-like football logic is just embarrassing to witness. So far, you ingenious arguments have included: a) defending how a 3.7 YPC average is "excellent" because its equal to the Buffalo Bills 29th ranked rushing attack; b) claiming our offense only averages 15 rushes per game, something a 12-year old with Google can disprove in 5 seconds; c) that you have cracked the DaVinci Code and deciphered when Thompson is on the field we are passing, when the MAJORITY of the time it is an obvious passing down anyway; and d) you assume that Thompson is on the field for passing downs purely to be a receiving threat. lmao I look forward to another emotional reply!
You can keep on deluding yourself with the the idea that Gruden hasn't been getting heavily criticized for not running the ball enough and quitting on the run despite the fact that he himself has admitted he needs to give Robinson many more carries even though he continues to pull him for Thompson in run situations letting the defense know there is no run threat in the backfield.
You can keep on deluding yourself that Robinson didn't come out of college considered a good pass blocking back or the fact that he has yet to be credited for missing a block in pass protection.
You can keep on deluding yourself that Thompson is a better receiving option than than Robinson even though he has been far less productive and has had far fewer impact plays than Robinson catching the ball.
You can keep on deluding yourself that Gruden's use of Thompson has had any meaningful results outside of letting the defense know to prepare for a pass play.
You can keep deluding yourself that defenses haven't picked up on Gruden's trends or that he is being out coached defenses with glaring weaknesses that any competent OC would attack not avoid.
You can also keep deluding yourself that I am the emotional one while you post emojis like a jilted little school girl.
I see you're still upset. I hope you feel better soon.
Please display the logic of your beautiful mind further by now telling us that our defense is actually playing "EXCELLENT" because it is giving up an average of 60 fewer yards per game than the undefeated Seattle Seahawks, and 30 less YPG than division leader Tennessee!
(10-13-2020, 03:37 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 03:26 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]You can keep on deluding yourself with the the idea that Gruden hasn't been getting heavily criticized for not running the ball enough and quitting on the run despite the fact that he himself has admitted he needs to give Robinson many more carries even though he continues to pull him for Thompson in run situations letting the defense know there is no run threat in the backfield.
You can keep on deluding yourself that Robinson didn't come out of college considered a good pass blocking back or the fact that he has yet to be credited for missing a block in pass protection.
You can keep on deluding yourself that Thompson is a better receiving option than than Robinson even though he has been far less productive and has had far fewer impact plays than Robinson catching the ball.
You can keep on deluding yourself that Gruden's use of Thompson has had any meaningful results outside of letting the defense know to prepare for a pass play.
You can keep deluding yourself that defenses haven't picked up on Gruden's trends or that he is being out coached defenses with glaring weaknesses that any competent OC would attack not avoid.
You can also keep deluding yourself that I am the emotional one while you post emojis like a jilted little school girl.
I see you're still upset. I hope you feel better soon.
Please display the logic of your beautiful mind further by now telling us that our defense is actually playing "EXCELLENT" because it is giving up an average of 60 fewer yards per game than the undefeated Seattle Seahawks, and 30 less YPG than division leader Tennessee!
Why are you so fixated with your deluded sense of my emotion?
Oh yeah, because you got completely destroyed by me during the actual football discussion. Lol!
You can try talking to me again once you acquire some actual football knowledge.
In the meantime, enjoy the bliss that comes with your ignorance.
(10-13-2020, 04:32 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 03:37 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]I see you're still upset. I hope you feel better soon.
Please display the logic of your beautiful mind further by now telling us that our defense is actually playing "EXCELLENT" because it is giving up an average of 60 fewer yards per game than the undefeated Seattle Seahawks, and 30 less YPG than division leader Tennessee!
Why are you so fixated with your deluded sense of my emotion?
Oh yeah, because you got completely destroyed by me during the actual football discussion. Lol!
You can try talking to me again once you acquire some actual football knowledge.
In the meantime, enjoy the bliss that comes with your ignorance.
C'mon dude... now you're just trying to save face. I get it. But I took you out back to the intellectual Football IQ shed and spanked the bejesus outta you! Go back and read some of the things you tried to argue:
"3.7 YPC is excellent because the Bills have that and they haven't lost yet" hahahahaha
(10-13-2020, 04:48 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 04:32 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ]Why are you so fixated with your deluded sense of my emotion?
Oh yeah, because you got completely destroyed by me during the actual football discussion. Lol!
You can try talking to me again once you acquire some actual football knowledge.
In the meantime, enjoy the bliss that comes with your ignorance.
C'mon dude... now you're just trying to save face. I get it. But I took you out back to the intellectual Football IQ shed and spanked the bejesus outta you! Go back and read some of the things you tried to argue!
When someones discussion responses are no longer on topic and turn into a bunch of emojis, you just have to accept the fact that you have thoroughly beaten them and let them on their way.
To try to carry on would just be cruel.
(10-13-2020, 04:57 PM)Predator Wrote: [ -> ] (10-13-2020, 04:48 PM)NeptuneBeachBum Wrote: [ -> ]C'mon dude... now you're just trying to save face. I get it. But I took you out back to the intellectual Football IQ shed and spanked the bejesus outta you! Go back and read some of the things you tried to argue!
When someones discussion responses turn into a bunch of emojis, you just have to accept the fact that you have thoroughly beaten them and let them on their way.
To try to continue would just be cruel.
Predator Logic:
3.7 YPC is equal to the Bills. The Bills are undefeated. Therefore, 3.7 YPC = EXCELLENT!!!!
Jags defense is 60 YPG better than the Seahawks. The Seahawks are undefeated. Therefore, Jags defense = EXCELLENT!!!
(10-13-2020, 11:47 AM)hb1148 Wrote: [ -> ]It also applies to the velocity you have on the ball on intermediate passes. Minshew has plenty of arm strength for that.
He has the arm strength to make some intermediate throws. Unfortunately there are also a lot of them that he can't.
Minshew is a young Chad peddington.
He is what he is and that is not a franchise QB. You only need a few games to tell..ala rookie QB this year.
Maybe we trade for Darnold when the Jets pick Lawrence first? I think Gase is burning through any decent players the Jets have and if you look at a guy like Tannehill balling in Memphis now that gase is gone... I mean maybe Darnold has something to offer, he played with a horrendous team and coach so maybe that's a way to aquire some talent. Not sure if Darnold can improve but if we don't pick in the top 2 and the QBs are gone lets get Darnold and build the defense next draft, have Minshew battle it out with Darnold and if they both stink you go QB in the next draft.
(10-14-2020, 08:50 AM)SignMeUpAtQB Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe we trade for Darnold when the Jets pick Lawrence first? I think Gase is burning through any decent players the Jets have and if you look at a guy like Tannehill balling in Memphis now that gase is gone... I mean maybe Darnold has something to offer, he played with a horrendous team and coach so maybe that's a way to aquire some talent. Not sure if Darnold can improve but if we don't pick in the top 2 and the QBs are gone lets get Darnold and build the defense next draft, have Minshew battle it out with Darnold and if they both stink you go QB in the next draft.
Darnold? No thanks.
And what team plays in Memphis? lol
(10-14-2020, 09:46 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (10-14-2020, 08:50 AM)SignMeUpAtQB Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe we trade for Darnold when the Jets pick Lawrence first? I think Gase is burning through any decent players the Jets have and if you look at a guy like Tannehill balling in Memphis now that gase is gone... I mean maybe Darnold has something to offer, he played with a horrendous team and coach so maybe that's a way to aquire some talent. Not sure if Darnold can improve but if we don't pick in the top 2 and the QBs are gone lets get Darnold and build the defense next draft, have Minshew battle it out with Darnold and if they both stink you go QB in the next draft.
Darnold? No thanks.
And what team plays in Memphis? lol
I’m willing to bet that when Darnold actually plays for a good coach, you’ll see his talent really show. (Tannehill)
Darnold is still making throws that are pretty incredible with the absolute worst skill position core I’ve ever seen. Gore and Ballage? They got rid of Robby Anderson for absolutely no reason and now look at Robby. Gase is a QB killer and when Darnold is free, you’ll see a totally different QB.
(10-14-2020, 11:16 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (10-14-2020, 09:46 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Darnold? No thanks.
And what team plays in Memphis? lol
I’m willing to bet that when Darnold actually plays for a good coach, you’ll see his talent really show. (Tannehill)
Darnold is still making throws that are pretty incredible with the absolute worst skill position core I’ve ever seen. Gore and Ballage? They got rid of Robby Anderson for absolutely no reason and now look at Robby. Gase is a QB killer and when Darnold is free, you’ll see a totally different QB.
Meh, maybe. But I wasn't a big Darnold fan coming out of college. Maybe he is salvageable. I think the jests end up changing coaches this off season. So a new coach would likely want to keep Darnold if he's that good.
As a rookie Darnold was without Gase, had a sub 60 comp pct and a not good TD to INT ratio. That was with Anderson and other better players, though I'll concede he's never had a lot of great weapons at any offensive position. And you'll get no argument from me about Gase being pure trash. I just don't think Darnold is it. I also think Tannehill showed more in Miami than Darnold has as a Jet.
If we're moving on from Minshew it should be with a QB in the draft. Not some cast off failed former first round pick from another team rebuilding.
(10-14-2020, 11:51 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (10-14-2020, 11:16 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I’m willing to bet that when Darnold actually plays for a good coach, you’ll see his talent really show. (Tannehill)
Darnold is still making throws that are pretty incredible with the absolute worst skill position core I’ve ever seen. Gore and Ballage? They got rid of Robby Anderson for absolutely no reason and now look at Robby. Gase is a QB killer and when Darnold is free, you’ll see a totally different QB.
Meh, maybe. But I wasn't a big Darnold fan coming out of college. Maybe he is salvageable. I think the jests end up changing coaches this off season. So a new coach would likely want to keep Darnold if he's that good.
As a rookie Darnold was without Gase, had a sub 60 comp pct and a not good TD to INT ratio. That was with Anderson and other better players, though I'll concede he's never had a lot of great weapons at any offensive position. And you'll get no argument from me about Gase being pure trash. I just don't think Darnold is it. I also think Tannehill showed more in Miami than Darnold has as a Jet.
If we're moving on from Minshew it should be with a QB in the draft. Not some cast off failed former first round pick from another team rebuilding.
Oh I don’t disagree. Darnold would be moving laterally if he came to the Jags. He would be bad here too because the Jags suck.
I would take Darnold in Jacksonville though if they hired someone like Joe Brady, Brian Dabol or Eric Bienemy. If they hire a retread HC, it wouldn’t be worth it.
(10-14-2020, 09:46 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ] (10-14-2020, 08:50 AM)SignMeUpAtQB Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe we trade for Darnold when the Jets pick Lawrence first? I think Gase is burning through any decent players the Jets have and if you look at a guy like Tannehill balling in Memphis now that gase is gone... I mean maybe Darnold has something to offer, he played with a horrendous team and coach so maybe that's a way to aquire some talent. Not sure if Darnold can improve but if we don't pick in the top 2 and the QBs are gone lets get Darnold and build the defense next draft, have Minshew battle it out with Darnold and if they both stink you go QB in the next draft.
Darnold? No thanks.
And what team plays in Memphis? lol
Nashville*** My bad.
I would consider taking Darnold if the top QBs in the Draft are gone...