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Quote:I'm not trying to make a judgement but I have a few questions.


IF he was reaching into his window, after ignoring multiple officer commands, what would you do? This is purely hypothetical clearly but I'm wondering what you would consider the right course of action?


There still seems to be pieces of this story missing. I've seen where they found the car in the middle of the road, lights on and doors open but nobody inside it. Where did the guy come from? Or did I miss that he was around the vehicle when the officer got there?


If he put his hands in the window, after ignoring the officers, there must be more to this story.


How is their life not in danger in that scenario? You don't know what he is reaching for.


I would like to hear the audio of this because I think it would help explain a few things.


Why do people feel like they should ignore an officers command after they respond to your vehicle being in road, lights on and running and nobody inside?


That is a high stress situation for an officer responding I would think with all that has gone on with attacks on law enforcement. It sounds like a way an officer could be set up to be attacked. I'm not in any way saying that's what this man was doing because I don't think that appears to be the case at all. I'm saying I could see an officer thinking that way.


I'm not saying she was justified or not. I haven't researched it enough and the little I have seen doesn't leave me feeling like I can say either way.


The officers comments in the helicopter in the context of that video do seem strange to me.

 

I would still like some answers from those of you that seem to know exactly what happened.

I like how he was reaching in the closed window. As evidence by his blood splatter in said window he was reaching into.

Quote:That isn't what I said. I said the mentality of ignoring a cop puts you in danger of being shot. 

 

I don't think we are accepting the idea of cops being Judge Dredd, but rather acknowledge that disobeying police officers is an extremely boneheaded move. By behaving erratically (like reaching into dark places after police tell you NOT TO MOVE while pointing a gun at you), you may shorten your life expectancy. If a person has an issue with the police and the law they may or may not be breaking, they can take it up in court instead of committing a misdemeanor/felony by disobeying a police officer. We live in a civilized society, do we not?

 

There are instances where the police do screw up or act maliciously and shoot an innocent. It does happen, and way more often than not the officer is dealt proper justice. The dishonest media leads us to believe that this type of injustice happens frequently and it is objectively not the case.

Quote:I like how he was reaching in the closed window. As evidence by his blood splatter in said window he was reaching into.

 

It doesn't matter if he was reaching into the car (that appears to be speculation) or reaching down towards his waistband (as I have also seen mentioned) but I tried watching the video again and I can't tell if the window is open or closed.  Do you have a link or something showing that it is closed?

 

I'm not saying it was a justified shooting.  I'm not saying she did the right thing.  I'm saying I don't see how you and others have jumped to the conclusions you have.

Quote:It doesn't matter if he was reaching into the car (that appears to be speculation) or reaching down towards his waistband (as I have also seen mentioned) but I tried watching the video again and I can't tell if the window is open or closed. Do you have a link or something showing that it is closed?


I'm not saying it was a justified shooting. I'm not saying she did the right thing. I'm saying I don't see how you and others have jumped to the conclusions you have.

My conclusion is that police officers in this country need better training. There are too many instances where if the officer was just better train and more prepared we wouldn't be in this situation.


And quite frankly if you don't have the fortification to do this job and you're constantly in fear then find another professional career

Solution: proper training and body cams. All the good cops would have nothing to worry about and the bad cops would be easier to weed out. Situations like this could be analyzed much more accurately.

All of this chatter also reminds me of the cop that kicked the living crap out of the deaf guy for not complying. He had it coming too.

Quote:All of this chatter also reminds me of the cop that kicked the living crap out of the deaf guy for not complying. He had it coming too.

 

What happened to the cop?

Maybe I'm naïve, but I find it hard to believe that a cop wakes up in the morning, puts on his/her uniform, grabs a cup of coffee and maybe a quick breakfast, and then thinks to him/herself...man, I hope I get a chance to shoot somebody today.

 

There has to be a butt ton of paperwork involved, not to mention being put on administrative leave...and then all of the investigations...and possibly a trial and an extensive period of time in prison, loss of job and family follows.

Quote:It really comes down to a simple choice.  Either:

 

A.  Do what the officers tell you to do.

 

or

 

B.  Don't do what the officers tell you to do.

 

One way, you are almost guaranteed to still be alive afterwards.  The other way, your chances of survival are significantly diminished.

 

I don't get why some people don't get this.

People want to turn it into some kind of social issue. It's just not. You hit the nail on the head with your post. Cops routinely ask people to keep their hands in plain sight. (keep your hands on the wheel. Keep your hands on the dash. Take  your hands out of your pockets.Place your hands on top of your head.)

 

That's what we're talking about here. The liberal progressives and minorities want to spin it into something else entirely. Try as they may, it always boils down to

Quote:That doesn't appear to be what happened here, though.

 

It doesn't look like he only ignored the cop.

I could have been more clear that I was referring to the overall mentality of some people, specifically some posting on here. Not commenting on a particular event like this one. 

Quote:What happened to the cop?

I was actually referencing a physical attack on a deaf guy walking I saw a while back, but also saw an incident where a cop shot and killed a deaf guy for non-compliance for speeding. That cop was put on paid vacation.. err. administrative leave.

I don't know guys. A "suspect" not cooperating doesn't deserve a death penalty.


Reaching for "whatever" - UNLESS IT IS SHOWN TO BE A GUN - also deserves a little less Quick-Draw-McGraw. IMHO


That now being said, yes--- cooperating with cops' commands can really save your life. Unfortunately it might be your only hope sometimes.

Quote:Maybe I'm naïve, but I find it hard to believe that a cop wakes up in the morning, puts on his/her uniform, grabs a cup of coffee and maybe a quick breakfast, and then thinks to him/herself...man, I hope I get a chance to shoot somebody today.


There has to be a butt ton of paperwork involved, not to mention being put on administrative leave...and then all of the investigations...and possibly a trial and an extensive period of time in prison, loss of job and family follows.

I think there is a very small percentage of cops that do walk around with a big swinging dick anxious for an opportunity to kick the [BLEEP] out of someone. There are enough videos out there to support this claim. I know for a fact there are members of hate groups that have infiltrated the prison guard system and suspect there are some cops who also subscribe to a bigoted perspective of the world.


That said, I still believe the overwhelming majority of cops are good people with a decent enough sense of ethics and right or wrong. Body cams would help take the guns and badges away from the cancerous cops who give all the good cops a bad name. And more training would decrease the number of people killed unnecessarily.

Quote:If you can explain why she was the only one with a sidearm out at that time, then i'll retract my murder charge statement.

 

 

clearly she failed. you can't tell me that three or four other officers did not feel threatened in the same situation at the same time except you.

 

 

all those officers were at the same scene at the same time seeing the same things, but she was the only one who put holes in this guy

 

 

think about that

 

Without knowing all of the facts as far as what happened, it's really hard to say if this shooting is justified or not.

 

It looks to me like this shooting was a tragedy and could have been avoided if the suspect had simply followed instructions to begin with.  That being said, there is the possibility that he was high on PCP.  The other thing that is odd is the way that his vehicle was stopped in the center of the road.  What is also odd is the video shows him walking away from the cop's car and the cop on the passenger side of her own vehicle.

 

This paragraph is purely speculation on my part, but it's possible that she rolled up on the scene, saw the position of the vehicle and the man approaching her vehicle appearing "impaired".  The man is wearing loose clothing and is clearly bigger than her.  My guess is that she told him to stop and put his hands up multiple times, and when he refused she drew her weapon and probably took cover behind her own vehicle and moved around to the passenger side.  Based on the audio from the helicopter, he finally put his hands up and started walking back towards his own vehicle, probably in response to seeing other officers arriving.

 

Now ask your self this.  The original call was to assist a disabled vehicle.  Why was said vehicle stopped in such an odd way?  There was also helicopter support as well as support from multiple other officers arriving at the scene with lights and sirens blaring.  Why such a large response for a disabled vehicle?  I believe that if the whole story was known, the responding officer probably radioed for back up.  That's not normal for a call to assist a disabled vehicle.

 

As far as the actual shooting, did the officer that discharged her weapon make a mistake?  It's looking that way based on what I've read so far.  From what I know the man was hit by both a bullet and a tazer, however it looks like from her position she didn't have a clear view of his hands and/or whether or not he had a weapon.  The tazer should have been used first, and if it didn't stop his actions, then perhaps it would be time to escalate to the next level.  Based on what I saw on the video and what I know from the news reports, she probably discharged her weapon prematurely.  I wouldn't call that murder.

I have heard the body cam argument used a lot, but I am not sure how I feel about it. I know I personally hate being monitored while I work, but then again programming isn't really life or death (in my case, anyway). Perhaps if it was only enabled during law-related interactions and couldn't be used to monitor performance. You have to consider officer morale, too. Is there anybody who works law enforcement or knows law enforcement that has heard the argument against body cams?

Quote:I have heard the body cam argument used a lot, but I am not sure how I feel about it. I know I personally hate being monitored while I work, but then again programming isn't really life or death (in my case, anyway). Perhaps if it was only enabled during law-related interactions and couldn't be used to monitor performance. You have to consider officer morale, too. Is there anybody who works law enforcement or knows law enforcement that has heard the argument against body cams?

 

I worked in law enforcement in my younger days.  Personally I would have mixed feelings about adding body cams.  On the one hand, a body cam can protect me in cases of liability, but on the other hand it could be a hindrance.  Consider the fact that a police officer sometimes needs to be as agile and mobile (physically) as they can.  Putting on a protective vest, wearing not only a gun but extra ammo, handcuffs, "supplementary tools" such as a flashlight and/or baton, etc. is already a lot of weight and bulk that hinders an officer's agility and mobility.  A body cam would be just one more piece of equipment that could possibly get in the way and hinder an officer.

I don't have mixed feelings any time I see a video of cops kicking the snot out of people who are handcuffed and defenseless or already taken down and motionless getting beaten to a pulp with a baton. Surely you would agree these are not the good cops we have referenced earlier. A body cam weighs less than three pounds and is fixed to the uniform. I get why plenty of cops wouldn't want to wear it as nobody likes to feel they are being micromanaged, but if it could be integrated as part of their ongoing training, I see great benefit. Weekly reviews of cops who handled situations properly. Opportunities to learn from situations which were not ideal (from routine pull overs to more intense encounters). And it would eliminate the witch hunts in situations where what the cop saw and said could be more clearly understood. Good cops would have nothing to worry about, whereas bad cops would be outed by their own behavior and performance managed or removed.

Quote:I don't have mixed feelings any time I see a video of cops kicking the snot out of people who are handcuffed and defenseless or already taken down and motionless getting beaten to a pulp with a baton. Surely you would agree these are not the good cops we have referenced earlier. A body cam weighs less than three pounds and is fixed to the uniform. I get why plenty of cops wouldn't want to wear it as nobody likes to feel they are being micromanaged, but if it could be integrated as part of their ongoing training, I see great benefit. Weekly reviews of cops who handled situations properly. Opportunities to learn from situations which were not ideal (from routine pull overs to more intense encounters). And it would eliminate the witch hunts in situations where what the cop saw and said could be more clearly understood. Good cops would have nothing to worry about, whereas bad cops would be outed by their own behavior and performance managed or removed.

Can't argue with that. Relatively simple solution for a big problem.

Quote:Can't argue with that. Relatively simple solution for a big problem.

 

Is it a big problem? Or is the media pushing it as a big problem? Statistically it isn't a big problem at all and in most cases can be considered an anomaly.