(08-10-2021, 01:48 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2021, 10:37 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Dude this barely deserves a response. You've dug in your heels so much on your predraft position about CJ that if he actually plays and plays well I imagine you'll still find some excuse as to why he was a bad selection.
Trading a 2nd year player first round pick for a 3rd round pick would be a worse move than signing Tebow to play TE.
It would be terrible value regardless of your terrible opinion on the matter.
Everyone talking about dragging him out of the house, off field issues, and him not wanting to be here is just you guys' speculation.
As is all the trade scenarios in the internet news.
Get over yourself dude lol
Not true. I actually praised the guy after the first game of the season when he did play well. I thought I might've been wrong about him. Unfortunately, his play got worse with every game, after week 1 until he got injured. I'm just not some "Florida homer" like some people. I'm objective. I look for rookie players to improve throughout the season. Henderson got worse with every game and now, there are rumors about his mental state. That is not a good mix. I'd take a 3rd round pick for him in a heartbeat.
I seem to recall him playing well in the game he was injured in prior to the injury.
Just food for though. Covid has had some really negative side affects for some people. It's called long-haul covid, and one of the side effects can be really bad anxiety. One of my friends started having panic attacks about 2 weeks after he caught covid. It lasted about a month (in diminishing returns) until he was himself again. It is possible that some of this is a legitimate reaction to Covid, assuming he's having really bad anxiety/depression.
Oh, and I know that story was anecdotal, but I give it because my friend is not a cower-in-fear type of person. He's a hard-nose blue collar type. He had to go on disability for a month to provide for his family, and it was NOT easy for him.
(08-10-2021, 04:50 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2021, 01:48 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Not true. I actually praised the guy after the first game of the season when he did play well. I thought I might've been wrong about him. Unfortunately, his play got worse with every game, after week 1 until he got injured. I'm just not some "Florida homer" like some people. I'm objective. I look for rookie players to improve throughout the season. Henderson got worse with every game and now, there are rumors about his mental state. That is not a good mix. I'd take a 3rd round pick for him in a heartbeat.
Your favorite corner was Okudah who was trash last year
He was my favorite and he wasn't good. I admit that, but there was improvement by him at the end of the season. He still has a long way to go though. This is a moot point though, since Okudah was off the board when we picked. We never had a shot at him anyway. At #9, I was with the masses of fans on this board that wanted the BAP which was Tristan Wirfs. He was the safest pick. The CB I wanted was Jaylon Johnson who was drafted by the Bears in round 2. He didn't really set the world on fire with his play, but he was solid and showed marked improvement throughout the season.
(08-10-2021, 05:13 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2021, 05:05 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]How does that change his response?
He could like Okudah and be wrong and still be skeptical of CJ Henderson and be right.
Now if there were an Okudah thread where he recently refused to trash him for poor play, your Okudah reference here would be more persuasive.
Truth be told I don't think anyone wants this to even be an issue. Putting aside our pre draft preferences, I think we all want him to succeed wildly for us.
Right now, however, the prospects of this happening seem increasingly dim.
I said I'd just visit but bullseye I know you see the trend. Most in this thread are concerned with a down rookie yr with injuries and only 1 great game. It's yr 2 and he's not mentally 100% an trade rumors are flying as normal with player absence. Him succeeding is usually a 3 to 4 yr evaluation period but most here are done with his 8 game rookie yr. The narrative is pretty clear about who wants him to succeed. Although, it does sounds about right for the safe zone comment of, "we want him to succeed as we do all jags players." Fans gonna fan tho
extra sarcasm: I wish most had this same energy when they wanted foles. Waste of time, money, n roster space, bit I digress.
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
With Henderson, there is just too much surrounding this kid. It was the poor tackling red flags that he had coming into the draft, the body language he showed when he was drafted, the great first game he had and then the terrible play which followed, the injury and then the rumors which have been swirling around his supposed mental health issues. There's just so much. Usually when there is this much smoke, there's a fire. Trust me, I'd love to be wrong about him. I
HATE wasting 1st round draft picks. It drives me insane! I want Henderson and Chaisson both to succeed, even though I was vehemently opposed to both picks. Worse than anything else, I hate seeing my team constantly losing, because of a lack of talent. I want to draft talented, young players which can pull this team out of the depths of despair that we've been in for decades. If that means admitting I was wrong about a player, so be it. I'm rooting for Henderson and Chaisson, but I'm also a realist and I just haven't seen anything yet that makes me believe these two were worthy of where they were taken. I sincerely hope they prove me wrong this season. I wanna start winning or at least getting to a respectable .500 record. I'm tired of losing.
A few thoughts:
1. I hope CJ’s ok. If it’s truly a mental health thing, I hope he overcomes it. That’s first and foremost
2. I’d hate to trade him. CJ has shown flashes and we’ve got a lot invested in him.
3. Like Charlie Strong said—he makes this team better.
(08-10-2021, 09:18 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2021, 05:13 PM)JagsFansince1995 Wrote: [ -> ]I said I'd just visit but bullseye I know you see the trend. Most in this thread are concerned with a down rookie yr with injuries and only 1 great game. It's yr 2 and he's not mentally 100% an trade rumors are flying as normal with player absence. Him succeeding is usually a 3 to 4 yr evaluation period but most here are done with his 8 game rookie yr. The narrative is pretty clear about who wants him to succeed. Although, it does sounds about right for the safe zone comment of, "we want him to succeed as we do all jags players." Fans gonna fan tho
extra sarcasm: I wish most had this same energy when they wanted foles. Waste of time, money, n roster space, bit I digress.
Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
With Henderson, there is just too much surrounding this kid. It was the poor tackling red flags that he had coming into the draft, the body language he showed when he was drafted, the great first game he had and then the terrible play which followed, the injury and then the rumors which have been swirling around his supposed mental health issues. There's just so much. Usually when there is this much smoke, there's a fire. Trust me, I'd love to be wrong about him. I HATE wasting 1st round draft picks. It drives me insane! I want Henderson and Chaisson both to succeed, even though I was vehemently opposed to both picks. Worse than anything else, I hate seeing my team constantly losing, because of a lack of talent. I want to draft talented, young players which can pull this team out of the depths of despair that we've been in for decades. If that means admitting I was wrong about a player, so be it. I'm rooting for Henderson and Chaisson, but I'm also a realist and I just haven't seen anything yet that makes me believe these two were worthy of where they were taken. I sincerely hope they prove me wrong this season. I wanna start winning or at least getting to a respectable .500 record. I'm tired of losing.
I will start by saying my opposition to the pick at the time had nothing to do with any mental health issues on his part. I did not know of any so I did not include that in any pre or immediate post draft analysis of him. I saw the clip where he didn't seem happy, but it could have been he was just caught up in the emotion of being drafted. But I read a subsequent article where he was interviewed and expressed a happiness to be here...so I brushed it aside. He played incredibly well the first game against the Colts, had a lesser but still good game the following week, but has gone downhill since.
Last year was viewed by most as a referendum on Minshew. He was coming off an incredible rookie year where he exceeded all reasonable expectations would would have for a rookie late round pick thrust into action the way he was. I felt in order for the franchise to make the right decision at the most important position on the field, we needed to give him all the tools necessary to succeed. Accordingly, my advocacy focused on talent on the offensive side of the ball that seemed to merit first round consideration in all of the pre draft speculation-the offensive line and WR. My main three candidates for that #9 overall pick were Wirfs, Ruggs and Jeudy, with additional consideration given to Jedrick Wills, whom I dropped because I was uncertain if he could play LT. The only other thing I had against Henderson is that he represented a temptation to chase need in the aftermath of the Jalen Ramsey trade, and that he would not help definitively answer the question about Minshew. His UF pedigree played no role whatsoever in my analysis.
Sadly, I find myself echoing completely the sentiments expressed above. My desire to be right about any pre draft analysis I offer pales overwhelmingly in comparison to my desire that the Jaguars get each and every pick right in the most spectacular way imaginable. I cannot imagine any Jaguars loving fan who is not simply beaten down by the staggering, overwhelming, oppressive stretch of losing. I know that being older than most here and being a football fan for some 44 years now, I understand that as a rule, losing seasons are inevitable and part of the NFL cycle that has and will hit every team. But having no Super Bowls to our credit (trophies or even appearances), in addition to having only ONE (1) winning season since 2008 strains beyond measure the patience I have developed while learning those realities. I am ready for this team to have an extended bout of winning. Having that one winning season in 2017, being less than five minutes away from reaching our first Super Bowl, only to completely waste the considerable array of talent accumulated only makes that period even worse. Knowing that we may have missed on Henderson and Chaisson trying to replace two prominent members of that 2017 team at two premium positions is pouring salt in the wounds.
The only conceivable solace I take in this is the team's poor performance last year led to us getting Trevor Lawrence. But as great as I think Trevor Lawrence will be for us, that insane rationalization for bad draft picks absolutely MUST STOP! That won't be a justification any longer because we have our franchise QB. It's time for the arrow to point straight up. After this season, there is zero reason that playoff contention should not be the reasonable expectation...but that level of expectation cannot be realized if we continue to miss on draft picks.
Welcome back CJ…….wishing you and the Jaguars the best.
(08-11-2021, 04:19 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2021, 09:18 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]With Henderson, there is just too much surrounding this kid. It was the poor tackling red flags that he had coming into the draft, the body language he showed when he was drafted, the great first game he had and then the terrible play which followed, the injury and then the rumors which have been swirling around his supposed mental health issues. There's just so much. Usually when there is this much smoke, there's a fire. Trust me, I'd love to be wrong about him. I HATE wasting 1st round draft picks. It drives me insane! I want Henderson and Chaisson both to succeed, even though I was vehemently opposed to both picks. Worse than anything else, I hate seeing my team constantly losing, because of a lack of talent. I want to draft talented, young players which can pull this team out of the depths of despair that we've been in for decades. If that means admitting I was wrong about a player, so be it. I'm rooting for Henderson and Chaisson, but I'm also a realist and I just haven't seen anything yet that makes me believe these two were worthy of where they were taken. I sincerely hope they prove me wrong this season. I wanna start winning or at least getting to a respectable .500 record. I'm tired of losing.
I will start by saying my opposition to the pick at the time had nothing to do with any mental health issues on his part. I did not know of any so I did not include that in any pre or immediate post draft analysis of him. I saw the clip where he didn't seem happy, but it could have been he was just caught up in the emotion of being drafted. But I read a subsequent article where he was interviewed and expressed a happiness to be here...so I brushed it aside. He played incredibly well the first game against the Colts, had a lesser but still good game the following week, but has gone downhill since.
Last year was viewed by most as a referendum on Minshew. He was coming off an incredible rookie year where he exceeded all reasonable expectations would would have for a rookie late round pick thrust into action the way he was. I felt in order for the franchise to make the right decision at the most important position on the field, we needed to give him all the tools necessary to succeed. Accordingly, my advocacy focused on talent on the offensive side of the ball that seemed to merit first round consideration in all of the pre draft speculation-the offensive line and WR. My main three candidates for that #9 overall pick were Wirfs, Ruggs and Jeudy, with additional consideration given to Jedrick Wills, whom I dropped because I was uncertain if he could play LT. The only other thing I had against Henderson is that he represented a temptation to chase need in the aftermath of the Jalen Ramsey trade, and that he would not help definitively answer the question about Minshew. His UF pedigree played no role whatsoever in my analysis.
Sadly, I find myself echoing completely the sentiments expressed above. My desire to be right about any pre draft analysis I offer pales overwhelmingly in comparison to my desire that the Jaguars get each and every pick right in the most spectacular way imaginable. I cannot imagine any Jaguars loving fan who is not simply beaten down by the staggering, overwhelming, oppressive stretch of losing. I know that being older than most here and being a football fan for some 44 years now, I understand that as a rule, losing seasons are inevitable and part of the NFL cycle that has and will hit every team. But having no Super Bowls to our credit (trophies or even appearances), in addition to having only ONE (1) winning season since 2008 strains beyond measure the patience I have developed while learning those realities. I am ready for this team to have an extended bout of winning. Having that one winning season in 2017, being less than five minutes away from reaching our first Super Bowl, only to completely waste the considerable array of talent accumulated only makes that period even worse. Knowing that we may have missed on Henderson and Chaisson trying to replace two prominent members of that 2017 team at two premium positions is pouring salt in the wounds.
The only conceivable solace I take in this is the team's poor performance last year led to us getting Trevor Lawrence. But as great as I think Trevor Lawrence will be for us, that insane rationalization for bad draft picks absolutely MUST STOP! That won't be a justification any longer because we have our franchise QB. It's time for the arrow to point straight up. After this season, there is zero reason that playoff contention should not be the reasonable expectation...but that level of expectation cannot be realized if we continue to miss on draft picks.
Well said. Like you, I am one of the older fans on the board. I've been a fan of this team from the beginning. I still remember sitting on the aluminum bleachers in Canton, Ohio in 90+ degree weather watching the Jags face off against Carolina in our very first exhibition game. I still have my ticket. I framed it and its hanging on the wall above my computer. In those early days, we found success pretty quickly. It was the best feeling. We were a nightmare match up for many of the powerhouse teams in the league. We came very close at times, to getting to the Superbowl and back then, we expected it to happen sooner, rather than later. We got spoiled. Instead, we fell on hard times and things never got better. We've been a losing team so long, I almost forget what success feels like. It sucks! I desperately want the Jags to become a winner again.
After decades of failure, there is now hope. The main ingredient in the recipe for NFL success is a franchise QB. We've never really had that. Now, it feels like we do. That is huge. We cannot waste this opportunity. With QB salaries skyrocketing, the ability to put good players around a franchise QB is getting harder and harder. We must be aggressive in fielding a great team around Lawrence, while he is on his rookie deal. We may never get this chance again. Like you said, we cannot afford to make the same mistakes in the draft and free agency that we have in the past. We have to get this right.
(08-10-2021, 08:22 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Just food for though. Covid has had some really negative side affects for some people. It's called long-haul covid, and one of the side effects can be really bad anxiety. One of my friends started having panic attacks about 2 weeks after he caught covid. It lasted about a month (in diminishing returns) until he was himself again. It is possible that some of this is a legitimate reaction to Covid, assuming he's having really bad anxiety/depression.
Oh, and I know that story was anecdotal, but I give it because my friend is not a cower-in-fear type of person. He's a hard-nose blue collar type. He had to go on disability for a month to provide for his family, and it was NOT easy for him.
Yeah, I'm not buying that at all. Most people could give a rats [BLEEP] about "COVID" (a virus less deadly than the flu)
If CJ is ready he will be CB1 in short order. Our defense is gonna be nasty
(08-11-2021, 09:52 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2021, 08:22 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Just food for though. Covid has had some really negative side affects for some people. It's called long-haul covid, and one of the side effects can be really bad anxiety. One of my friends started having panic attacks about 2 weeks after he caught covid. It lasted about a month (in diminishing returns) until he was himself again. It is possible that some of this is a legitimate reaction to Covid, assuming he's having really bad anxiety/depression.
Oh, and I know that story was anecdotal, but I give it because my friend is not a cower-in-fear type of person. He's a hard-nose blue collar type. He had to go on disability for a month to provide for his family, and it was NOT easy for him.
Yeah, I'm not buying that at all. Most people could give a rats [BLEEP] about "COVID" (a virus less deadly than the flu)
I’ve lost a grandmother and 2 other friends bc of covid. I’ve never lost anyone due to the flu.
(08-11-2021, 09:52 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ] (08-10-2021, 08:22 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Just food for though. Covid has had some really negative side affects for some people. It's called long-haul covid, and one of the side effects can be really bad anxiety. One of my friends started having panic attacks about 2 weeks after he caught covid. It lasted about a month (in diminishing returns) until he was himself again. It is possible that some of this is a legitimate reaction to Covid, assuming he's having really bad anxiety/depression.
Oh, and I know that story was anecdotal, but I give it because my friend is not a cower-in-fear type of person. He's a hard-nose blue collar type. He had to go on disability for a month to provide for his family, and it was NOT easy for him.
Yeah, I'm not buying that at all. Most people could give a rats [BLEEP] about "COVID" (a virus less deadly than the flu)
Roc Armstead would probably give a thousand rats [BLEEP] to get his career back.
(08-11-2021, 09:25 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2021, 04:19 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I will start by saying my opposition to the pick at the time had nothing to do with any mental health issues on his part. I did not know of any so I did not include that in any pre or immediate post draft analysis of him. I saw the clip where he didn't seem happy, but it could have been he was just caught up in the emotion of being drafted. But I read a subsequent article where he was interviewed and expressed a happiness to be here...so I brushed it aside. He played incredibly well the first game against the Colts, had a lesser but still good game the following week, but has gone downhill since.
Last year was viewed by most as a referendum on Minshew. He was coming off an incredible rookie year where he exceeded all reasonable expectations would would have for a rookie late round pick thrust into action the way he was. I felt in order for the franchise to make the right decision at the most important position on the field, we needed to give him all the tools necessary to succeed. Accordingly, my advocacy focused on talent on the offensive side of the ball that seemed to merit first round consideration in all of the pre draft speculation-the offensive line and WR. My main three candidates for that #9 overall pick were Wirfs, Ruggs and Jeudy, with additional consideration given to Jedrick Wills, whom I dropped because I was uncertain if he could play LT. The only other thing I had against Henderson is that he represented a temptation to chase need in the aftermath of the Jalen Ramsey trade, and that he would not help definitively answer the question about Minshew. His UF pedigree played no role whatsoever in my analysis.
Sadly, I find myself echoing completely the sentiments expressed above. My desire to be right about any pre draft analysis I offer pales overwhelmingly in comparison to my desire that the Jaguars get each and every pick right in the most spectacular way imaginable. I cannot imagine any Jaguars loving fan who is not simply beaten down by the staggering, overwhelming, oppressive stretch of losing. I know that being older than most here and being a football fan for some 44 years now, I understand that as a rule, losing seasons are inevitable and part of the NFL cycle that has and will hit every team. But having no Super Bowls to our credit (trophies or even appearances), in addition to having only ONE (1) winning season since 2008 strains beyond measure the patience I have developed while learning those realities. I am ready for this team to have an extended bout of winning. Having that one winning season in 2017, being less than five minutes away from reaching our first Super Bowl, only to completely waste the considerable array of talent accumulated only makes that period even worse. Knowing that we may have missed on Henderson and Chaisson trying to replace two prominent members of that 2017 team at two premium positions is pouring salt in the wounds.
The only conceivable solace I take in this is the team's poor performance last year led to us getting Trevor Lawrence. But as great as I think Trevor Lawrence will be for us, that insane rationalization for bad draft picks absolutely MUST STOP! That won't be a justification any longer because we have our franchise QB. It's time for the arrow to point straight up. After this season, there is zero reason that playoff contention should not be the reasonable expectation...but that level of expectation cannot be realized if we continue to miss on draft picks.
Well said. Like you, I am one of the older fans on the board. I've been a fan of this team from the beginning. I still remember sitting on the aluminum bleachers in Canton, Ohio in 90+ degree weather watching the Jags face off against Carolina in our very first exhibition game. I still have my ticket. I framed it and its hanging on the wall above my computer. In those early days, we found success pretty quickly. It was the best feeling. We were a nightmare match up for many of the powerhouse teams in the league. We came very close at times, to getting to the Superbowl and back then, we expected it to happen sooner, rather than later. We got spoiled. Instead, we fell on hard times and things never got better. We've been a losing team so long, I almost forget what success feels like. It sucks! I desperately want the Jags to become a winner again.
After decades of failure, there is now hope. The main ingredient in the recipe for NFL success is a franchise QB. We've never really had that. Now, it feels like we do. That is huge. We cannot waste this opportunity. With QB salaries skyrocketing, the ability to put good players around a franchise QB is getting harder and harder. We must be aggressive in fielding a great team around Lawrence, while he is on his rookie deal. We may never get this chance again. Like you said, we cannot afford to make the same mistakes in the draft and free agency that we have in the past. We have to get this right.
Worse yet, QBs are now throwing their weight around and if they aren't happy with things, they have tried to force their way out. Brady left the Pats. Aaron Rodgers tried forcing a trade and got the Packers to redo his contract so he could leave next year. DeShaun Watson has tried forcing a trade. Even Russell Wilson publicly complained and entertained trade speculation. The days of a franchise QB staying his entire career with one team are tenuous If we aren't careful...if we don't get things right...he could force his way out of here like Ramsey and Ngakoue. We cannot allow that to happen. His early departure from this team because we can't put talent around him would devastate this franchise.
This sobering reality is why my heart sinks when presumably premium talent allegedly had to be dragged out of his home to get to practice. I never dreamed we would have a repeat of R Jay Soward. I cringe when I read speculation CJ may have debilitating MH issues and the team is exploring trading him.
We cannot continue to draft on a treadmill.
(08-11-2021, 10:45 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2021, 09:52 AM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I'm not buying that at all. Most people could give a rats [BLEEP] about "COVID" (a virus less deadly than the flu)
I’ve lost a grandmother and 2 other friends bc of covid. I’ve never lost anyone due to the flu.
We have a political thread about this if we want to discuss the politics of Covid. I am simply saying that I know a very blue collar guy that had panic disorders for about a month after getting Covid. This is a dude that works and pays the bills and takes care of his family. He kicked it and he's back to working 60 hours a week. It's a well documented phenomenon. A small group of people get really bad anxiety for a short time after having Covid. Scientists aren't sure why. Just throwing it out there for CJ.
(08-11-2021, 01:21 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ] (08-11-2021, 10:45 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve lost a grandmother and 2 other friends bc of covid. I’ve never lost anyone due to the flu.
We have a political thread about this if we want to discuss the politics of Covid. I am simply saying that I know a very blue collar guy that had panic disorders for about a month after getting Covid. This is a dude that works and pays the bills and takes care of his family. He kicked it and he's back to working 60 hours a week. It's a well documented phenomenon. A small group of people get really bad anxiety for a short time after having Covid. Scientists aren't sure why. Just throwing it out there for CJ.
Severe fatigue that can last for weeks is also a fairly common after effect from Covid. That can totally affect your ability to work and function normally. Imagine trying to do all the extremely physical things required of you in practice when you are totally exhausted all the time. That could explain why he can attend the meetings but can't get out on the field.
(08-11-2021, 02:16 AM)Black and Tea Wrote: [ -> ]2. I’d hate to trade him. CJ has shown flashes and we’ve got a lot invested in him.
I keep hearing this but outside of week 1 I can't think of any flashes. He was average at best but again he was a rookie so he gets a pass.
i believe the jaguars have good number 2's in chark, shenault and jones.. but if michael thomas was to play here he would instanly become trevor's go to receiver.. i dont see the sense going after an injured wr we already have chark and shenault.. we need to focus on a more of a need and thats te zach ertz.. we get him i think its not just a better move but more importantly a need and ertz fits that tremendously..thomas's off the field antics are gonna get him off the league.. and i think urban knows that..
also collin johnson continues to flash at wr.. hell ease the pain from chark..
https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/duval-ins...s-to-flash