(04-30-2022, 11:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]In a League designed for offense and with a generational talent at QB...we took linebackers and cornerbacks.
Yes let’s just draft for lneed like we always have and continue losing for another decade. We used free agency to upgrade the offense and The draft to update the defense what’s not to like. I love how you want to be GM’s Can evaluate a players ability before they have stepped on an NFL field.
(05-03-2022, 08:14 AM)dennisp3 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 11:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]In a League designed for offense and with a generational talent at QB...we took linebackers and cornerbacks.
Yes let’s just draft for lneed like we always have and continue losing for another decade. We used free agency to upgrade the offense and The draft to update the defense what’s not to like. I love how you want to be GM’s Can evaluate a players ability before they have stepped on an NFL field.
Good response.
Also, rookies can make a better impact on D whereas you need veteran offensive players to make an immediate impact; hence, we went offense in free agency and defense in the draft.
flsprtsgod apparently forgot we pretty much went all in on the offense when it came to free agency.
(05-03-2022, 08:14 AM)dennisp3 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 11:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]In a League designed for offense and with a generational talent at QB...we took linebackers and cornerbacks.
Yes let’s just draft for lneed like we always have and continue losing for another decade. We used free agency to upgrade the offense and The draft to update the defense what’s not to like. I love how you want to be GM’s Can evaluate a players ability before they have stepped on an NFL field.
Lol, drafting for "need" is why you got a DE, 2 LBs, and 2 DBs in this draft. It's why we wasted a pick on ETN in the 1st last year. It's why we wasted the Ramsey haul on replacements for him and Yannick the year before when much better players were available. I can tell you that defense isn't what this team needed and that the free agent class was just mediocre. This team needs offense but we settled for a big fat "Meh" instead. A team that doesn't have a #1 receiver for their prized franchise quarterback spent two two 1st round picks on defensive players and actually traded UP to get a linebacker. I don't get why you guys don't want a team that scores points, but you all seem to think that you're going to hold the ACF West teams to less than 12 points a game so the Jags have a chance to win. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that isn't working in the modern NFL.
(05-03-2022, 08:27 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 08:14 AM)dennisp3 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes let’s just draft for lneed like we always have and continue losing for another decade. We used free agency to upgrade the offense and The draft to update the defense what’s not to like. I love how you want to be GM’s Can evaluate a players ability before they have stepped on an NFL field.
Good response.
Also, rookies can make a better impact on D whereas you need veteran offensive players to make an immediate impact; hence, we went offense in free agency and defense in the draft.
flsprtsgod apparently forgot we pretty much went all in on the offense when it came to free agency.
It's hard to remember a bunch of eminently forgettable free agents, though I'm glad we signed Sherff, injury history aside. The receivers are just guys as is the TE. BTW, didn't we spend a $45 million on a middle linebacker in FA? Didn't we sign a DT and a CB to significant contracts? Grab the last pass rusher on the market in Key? Let's not pretend we signed the Greatest Show on Turf for this team, we got players who certainly better than what we had but I don't think stack up against the rest of the Conference. I hope Pederson can work some magic with this group, but right now 4 or 5 wins looks like the ceiling.
(05-03-2022, 08:34 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 08:14 AM)dennisp3 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes let’s just draft for lneed like we always have and continue losing for another decade. We used free agency to upgrade the offense and The draft to update the defense what’s not to like. I love how you want to be GM’s Can evaluate a players ability before they have stepped on an NFL field.
Lol, drafting for "need" is why you got a DE, 2 LBs, and 2 DBs in this draft. It's why we wasted a pick on ETN in the 1st last year. It's why we wasted the Ramsey haul on replacements for him and Yannick the year before when much better players were available. I can tell you that defense isn't what this team needed and that the free agent class was just mediocre. This team needs offense but we settled for a big fat "Meh" instead. A team that doesn't have a #1 receiver for their prized franchise quarterback spent two two 1st round picks on defensive players and actually traded UP to get a linebacker. I don't get why you guys don't want a team that scores points, but you all seem to think that you're going to hold the ACF West teams to less than 12 points a game so the Jags have a chance to win. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that isn't working in the modern NFL.
Who did you want to draft in the first 3?
(05-03-2022, 07:56 AM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe with how much titans and colts runs the ball the front office thought it would be a good idea to have a strong rotation at line backer to stop Henry and Taylor taking over in the 4th quarter when teams are getting tired.
Also in relation to draft grades and “experts” Kyle Brandt just did a segment on gmfb about the Seahawks 2012 draft with Wilson, Irvin and Wagner getting an F grade. All we can do is sit back and wait and see who’s good and who’s not. I for one am very excited for the upcoming season. I don’t expect the play offs but I think the titans will take a step back and maybe keep our hopes of being in sight of the division in mid November which would be fun
I'm very excited for this upcoming season but also very skeptical that they have the offensive playmakers (more specifically the speed) to help Trevor make that big jump. Let's just look at the young AFC QBs and the weapons around them:
Burrow: Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon
Tua: Waddle, Tyreek, Gesicki, Mostert
Herbert: Ekler, Mike Will, Keenan Allen
Wilson: Michael Carter/ Breece Hall, Cory Davis, Wilson, Elijah Moore
And that's just with the young QBs not including Mahomes, Allen, Carr, Wilson who also happen to have better weapons. In terms of weapons for their young QB, it's clear that Trevor has the worst of the bunch. JRob is coming back from a torn achilles (unlikely he contributes in 2022 and don't use Akers as an example), ETN coming off Lisfranc, Old and slow MJJ, Shenault can't catch and Kirk/Engram I like.
The defense will be much improved but Pederson is going to need to work wonders to keep up with these offenses in the AFC.
(05-03-2022, 08:34 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 08:14 AM)dennisp3 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes let’s just draft for lneed like we always have and continue losing for another decade. We used free agency to upgrade the offense and The draft to update the defense what’s not to like. I love how you want to be GM’s Can evaluate a players ability before they have stepped on an NFL field.
Lol, drafting for "need" is why you got a DE, 2 LBs, and 2 DBs in this draft. It's why we wasted a pick on ETN in the 1st last year. It's why we wasted the Ramsey haul on replacements for him and Yannick the year before when much better players were available. I can tell you that defense isn't what this team needed and that the free agent class was just mediocre. This team needs offense but we settled for a big fat "Meh" instead. A team that doesn't have a #1 receiver for their prized franchise quarterback spent two two 1st round picks on defensive players and actually traded UP to get a linebacker. I don't get why you guys don't want a team that scores points, but you all seem to think that you're going to hold the ACF West teams to less than 12 points a game so the Jags have a chance to win. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that isn't working in the modern NFL.
so the solution was to put TLaw in a situation where he had to put up 35 or take the L?
This is very pouty, sorry that the team didn't take the guy(s) you wanted. Outside of that excuse, there's very little to fault the actual picks that were made. These core guys weren't reaches. They're going to be valuable parts to a defense that will need to be affordable and productive while the offense garners so much of our capital, whether that be through FA or contract renewals.
You can't hold the current regime for the poor strategy Dave employed with the Ramsey haul. We can all agree that need took priority over value for those picks. And if you think taking D. Lloyd at 27 is close to the equivalent wastefulness of taking ETN at 25 last year, no words are going to matter in this conversation.
I'm willing to see what all the FA WR and other supporting cast can do before I start climbing the stairs of the modis building. Give us a wave once you reach the top, man.
(05-03-2022, 08:14 AM)dennisp3 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 11:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]In a League designed for offense and with a generational talent at QB...we took linebackers and cornerbacks.
Yes let’s just draft for lneed like we always have and continue losing for another decade. We used free agency to upgrade the offense and The draft to update the defense what’s not to like. I love how you want to be GM’s Can evaluate a players ability before they have stepped on an NFL field.
So, did we draft for need or not?
It's hilarious guys really think the best teams always draft BAP
.gif "Laughing")
(05-03-2022, 08:14 AM)dennisp3 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 11:07 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]In a League designed for offense and with a generational talent at QB...we took linebackers and cornerbacks.
Yes let’s just draft for lneed like we always have and continue losing for another decade. We used free agency to upgrade the offense and The draft to update the defense what’s not to like. I love how you want to be GM’s Can evaluate a players ability before they have stepped on an NFL field.
The Muma pick
might have been the only pick where they back-burnered need to take a player who shouldn't have fallen that far.
Or they may have had a short term package fit and a long term starting role planned for him before the draft. We don't know and may never know.
The pass rusher, the ILB Lloyd , the C/G Fortner, and the RB depth pick were all glaring needs that they addressed the same way most front offices do. The RB may have been a reach, but at that point in the draft, not a big deal.
Fortner, the G/C may have been a bit of a reach too, but still seems like pretty good value and we obviously don't know how they graded him compared to others available.
Everybody drafts needs, it's just about how far they are willing to reach to do it.
(05-03-2022, 09:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 08:14 AM)dennisp3 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes let’s just draft for lneed like we always have and continue losing for another decade. We used free agency to upgrade the offense and The draft to update the defense what’s not to like. I love how you want to be GM’s Can evaluate a players ability before they have stepped on an NFL field.
So, did we draft for need or not?
It's hilarious guys really think the best teams always draft BAP
Wouldn't it suck if the BAP for our seven rounds of picks were all punters? I guess we'd pick 7 punters.
(05-03-2022, 10:02 AM)Sibelius Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 09:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]So, did we draft for need or not?
It's hilarious guys really think the best teams always draft BAP
Wouldn't it suck if the BAP for our seven rounds of picks were all punters? I guess we'd pick 7 punters.
Gene? That you?
Kidding aside, even though a punter would never be graded so highly in the early rounds due to positional value, this concept really does apply to QBs.
Teams in need of landing their franchise QB very often are forced to reach for one in the first round, passing on more talented players at other positions in the process.
I think it was clear this team stuck to their board and went true BPA. Taking the top player on thier board over positions of bigger need. He's right on the process now it just depends on their evaluations and if they had the players ranked and rated properly.
I wish we had Sauce. He's going to be the Superstar from this draft.
(05-03-2022, 10:07 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I think it was clear this team stuck to their board and went true BPA. Taking the top player on thier board over positions of bigger need. He's right on the process now it just depends on their evaluations and if they had the players ranked and rated properly.
That's just garbage. Sauce's floor is higher than Walkers ceiling.
(05-03-2022, 09:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 08:14 AM)dennisp3 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes let’s just draft for lneed like we always have and continue losing for another decade. We used free agency to upgrade the offense and The draft to update the defense what’s not to like. I love how you want to be GM’s Can evaluate a players ability before they have stepped on an NFL field.
So, did we draft for need or not?
It's hilarious guys really think the best teams always draft BAP
The best teams can draft BAP, in part because they are usually stacked at the higher value positions in the draft (hence why they're the best teams). So the others teams chase the top available skill and high values positions (eg QB, DE, OT, CB, WR) and then the corresponding players in the remaining positions fall into their laps.
Take the Ravens for example, got two players considered by most as best in their positions in Hamilton and Lindebaum, as they didn't have to reach for any other position. The change in value of WR recently and the run on WR that happened also helped those teams that weren't drafting WR.
(05-03-2022, 10:07 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 10:02 AM)Sibelius Wrote: [ -> ]Wouldn't it suck if the BAP for our seven rounds of picks were all punters? I guess we'd pick 7 punters.
Gene? That you?
Kidding aside, even though a punter would never be graded so highly in the early rounds due to positional value, this concept really does apply to QBs.
Teams in need of landing their franchise QB very often are forced to reach for one in the first round, passing on more talented players at other positions in the process.
LOL
You're right, QB would have been a more realistic choice but I wanted to emphasize the absurdity of living and dying at the alter of BAP
(05-03-2022, 08:50 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 08:34 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Lol, drafting for "need" is why you got a DE, 2 LBs, and 2 DBs in this draft. It's why we wasted a pick on ETN in the 1st last year. It's why we wasted the Ramsey haul on replacements for him and Yannick the year before when much better players were available. I can tell you that defense isn't what this team needed and that the free agent class was just mediocre. This team needs offense but we settled for a big fat "Meh" instead. A team that doesn't have a #1 receiver for their prized franchise quarterback spent two two 1st round picks on defensive players and actually traded UP to get a linebacker. I don't get why you guys don't want a team that scores points, but you all seem to think that you're going to hold the ACF West teams to less than 12 points a game so the Jags have a chance to win. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that isn't working in the modern NFL.
Who did you want to draft in the first 3?
The best available offensive player. As I said two weeks ago this was a terrible draft to have the #1 pick because no one wanted it, so trading down probably wasn't an option. Had I been able to I would've moved down to the 10 range and taken a wide receiver, had I not it would've been Icky. Then Watson at 33. I liked the Fortner pick and I'm fine with the Muma pick where we got him with those changes above.
(05-03-2022, 10:14 AM)wassy04 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 09:46 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]So, did we draft for need or not?
It's hilarious guys really think the best teams always draft BAP
The best teams can draft BAP, in part because they are usually stacked at the higher value positions in the draft (hence why they're the best teams). So the others teams chase the top available skill and high values positions (eg QB, DE, OT, CB, WR) and then the corresponding players in the remaining positions fall into their laps.
Take the Ravens for example, got two players considered by most as best in their positions in Hamilton and Lindebaum, as they didn't have to reach for any other position. The change in value of WR recently and the run on WR that happened also helped those teams that weren't drafting WR.
Very good point.
Teams with fewer needs are allowed the luxury of drafting BAP more often than the others.
(you'll still see them fill anticipated needs and fill in behind players with expiring contracts)
This concept is why Muma was deemed a "luxury pick" right away by several here (and elsewhere.)
(05-03-2022, 09:16 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2022, 08:34 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Lol, drafting for "need" is why you got a DE, 2 LBs, and 2 DBs in this draft. It's why we wasted a pick on ETN in the 1st last year. It's why we wasted the Ramsey haul on replacements for him and Yannick the year before when much better players were available. I can tell you that defense isn't what this team needed and that the free agent class was just mediocre. This team needs offense but we settled for a big fat "Meh" instead. A team that doesn't have a #1 receiver for their prized franchise quarterback spent two two 1st round picks on defensive players and actually traded UP to get a linebacker. I don't get why you guys don't want a team that scores points, but you all seem to think that you're going to hold the ACF West teams to less than 12 points a game so the Jags have a chance to win. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know that isn't working in the modern NFL.
so the solution was to put TLaw in a situation where he had to put up 35 or take the L?
This is very pouty, sorry that the team didn't take the guy(s) you wanted. Outside of that excuse, there's very little to fault the actual picks that were made. These core guys weren't reaches. They're going to be valuable parts to a defense that will need to be affordable and productive while the offense garners so much of our capital, whether that be through FA or contract renewals.
You can't hold the current regime for the poor strategy Dave employed with the Ramsey haul. We can all agree that need took priority over value for those picks. And if you think taking D. Lloyd at 27 is close to the equivalent wastefulness of taking ETN at 25 last year, no words are going to matter in this conversation.
I'm willing to see what all the FA WR and other supporting cast can do before I start climbing the stairs of the modis building. Give us a wave once you reach the top, man.
No, I want a team capable of scoring 35 a game regardless of the outcome; then we fix the defense problem after we can do that. You know, like the Chiefs did. You'd rather lose games 24-10? Because that's what the current strategy gets us, a decent defense with an offense that has trouble getting first downs. I'm not suicidal over this, but I disagree with the strategy we're seeing. I hope it works out in the end, but I think we're just building another roster that gets us what we already had. Pederson is the key, can he make chicken salad from this?