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(05-01-2022, 10:36 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 12:45 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Defense wins championships. We play in a division with Henry and a physical Colts team. As Baalke said all it takes is one injury and we are in trouble.
Insane you guys are complaining we got a leader and great value pick with Lloyd and 27th overall and then get a steal in round 3 with Muma.
The steelers seem to draft a lb in the first round almost every year and they are always competive. Playing a 3-4 we need tons of linebackers.
I for one have zero hate for them sticking to their value board.
People still say this? like the Rams? Colts? Tampa 2020? Kansas? Eagles?
(04-30-2022, 10:00 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]What a way to judge a player before they take a snap.
Then it doesn't matter who they picked you could still say he was BAP. Any coach/gm can claim they picked BAP, doesn't mean it is
Lol you made my point for me.
The rams, Tampa, eagles, and kc all had good defenses.
(05-02-2022, 12:28 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 10:36 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]People still say this? like the Rams? Colts? Tampa 2020? Kansas? Eagles?
Then it doesn't matter who they picked you could still say he was BAP. Any coach/gm can claim they picked BAP, doesn't mean it is
Lol you made my point for me.
The rams, Tampa, eagles, and kc all had good defenses.
Gonna have to hard disagree with you on KC, their defense is meh. The others tho I agree but outside of the eagles the offenses were very good aswell.
Basically what i'm saying is, "a good balanced team wins superbowls" lol
(05-01-2022, 02:33 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I hear some say that the Jaguars didn't do much this off-season for offense. When Trevor steps onto the field this year, he will typically have Kirk, M. Jones, Z. Jones, Engram and Etienne as receiving options. 4 out of the 5 will be new to him this year. As for the group protecting him, they added an All Pro offensive lineman in Scherff. Many believe that Little will take over and upgrade our right tackle position. If our rookie center earns a starting role, that could be 3 out of our 5 linemen upgraded. That's a lot of change in one off-season. I also think we'll have far better coaching.
I'm also one who believes that preventing a touchdown is just as valuable as scoring a touchdown. I also think a good defense helps your offense. Not being behind 0-7 or 0-14 to start the game allows the offense to maintain better balance and be less predictable. Additionally, better field position helps an offense score points. More possessions helps an offense score points. Getting to face a tired defense because the other team just went three and out helps an offense score points. We made major upgrades to our defense which besides lowering our opponent's score should also help our offense score points.
Just because these players are new to Trevor Lawrence doesn't necessarily make them improved enough to get the desired results. Of the entire group of new starters, only Engram and Scherff could even remotely be considered a dominant player or represent a match up advantage. Perhaps if Walker Little assumes the RT spot over Taylor, he will prove to be a dominant player. Etienne is still unproven. Kirk and Zay Jones are like the offensive versions of our DL signings from last year, although nobody argues we dramatically overpaid for any of our DL signings.
I agree that the improved defense should help the offense.
It's possible for the offense to be improved from last year. in fact, it's almost impossible for there to not to be any offensive improvement from last year. But a lot of that improvement will simply come from Pederson and his influence on Trevor Lawrence. I'm not sure how much will come from improved personnel, but at this point, I can't say this is a playoff personnel grouping offensively.
Of course, I hope like hell I am wrong about that.
Jeff Prosser on 1010 more or less expressing draft envy about other teams. His biggest complaint is the near absence of offensive players drafted by the Jaguars and it’s a fair point. He also speculated whether Pederson was really onboard with all of these picks but that’s a whole other discussion.
The way I see it, there are so many holes on this team that perhaps a decision was made to address one side of the ball first. This year was defense with the expectation that Doug Pederson could coach up the offense this season to something resembling respectability and then load up in the 2023 draft. If so, it’s a good realist strategy that will hold up well in the following years.
I don’t think the planned defence over offence I just think it’s the way the bored fell on who they had graded , they didn’t take chad muma because they wanted to go defence they picked him because he was the highest rated player , a bad team can’t go wrong with taking good players. Baalke knows we need wrs but it’s a fatal mistake taking one just for the sake of it, we have too many holes to just reach for the sake of it
(05-02-2022, 06:06 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 02:33 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]I hear some say that the Jaguars didn't do much this off-season for offense. When Trevor steps onto the field this year, he will typically have Kirk, M. Jones, Z. Jones, Engram and Etienne as receiving options. 4 out of the 5 will be new to him this year. As for the group protecting him, they added an All Pro offensive lineman in Scherff. Many believe that Little will take over and upgrade our right tackle position. If our rookie center earns a starting role, that could be 3 out of our 5 linemen upgraded. That's a lot of change in one off-season. I also think we'll have far better coaching.
I'm also one who believes that preventing a touchdown is just as valuable as scoring a touchdown. I also think a good defense helps your offense. Not being behind 0-7 or 0-14 to start the game allows the offense to maintain better balance and be less predictable. Additionally, better field position helps an offense score points. More possessions helps an offense score points. Getting to face a tired defense because the other team just went three and out helps an offense score points. We made major upgrades to our defense which besides lowering our opponent's score should also help our offense score points.
Just because these players are new to Trevor Lawrence doesn't necessarily make them improved enough to get the desired results. Of the entire group of new starters, only Engram and Scherff could even remotely be considered a dominant player or represent a match up advantage. Perhaps if Walker Little assumes the RT spot over Taylor, he will prove to be a dominant player. Etienne is still unproven. Kirk and Zay Jones are like the offensive versions of our DL signings from last year, although nobody argues we dramatically overpaid for any of our DL signings.
I agree that the improved defense should help the offense.
It's possible for the offense to be improved from last year. in fact, it's almost impossible for there to not to be any offensive improvement from last year. But a lot of that improvement will simply come from Pederson and his influence on Trevor Lawrence. I'm not sure how much will come from improved personnel, but at this point, I can't say this is a playoff personnel grouping offensively.
Of course, I hope like hell I am wrong about that.
You have to crawl before you can walk. I mean did anyone really learn anything about Lawrence or most of the other offensive piece last year?
This is the year to figure out really in the NFL, what Lawrence can do. Sure dominant players helps with that evaluation some, but not really. If he is the guy and getting better, the coaches/FO will see it, the fans will see it, and the league will see it.
Without Angels in the Endzone, playoffs should not really be in the conversation for 2022. I get most of these guys are signed for 2 years. But that also means in 2 years when the Jags really know what Lawrence can do, they can be more targeted in getting the guys they actually need to build a contender. And by then, hopefully they have developed 3 years of draft picks to follow through on that plan.
This is no longer a 3 year plan (T-Law's 3rd year) to contender status. We lost that opportunity with the disaster of 2021. It is now closer to a 5 year plan.
(05-02-2022, 06:53 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Jeff Prosser on 1010 more or less expressing draft envy about other teams. His biggest complaint is the near absence of offensive players drafted by the Jaguars and it’s a fair point. He also speculated whether Pederson was really onboard with all of these picks but that’s a whole other discussion.
The way I see it, there are so many holes on this team that perhaps a decision was made to address one side of the ball first. This year was defense with the expectation that Doug Pederson could coach up the offense this season to something resembling respectability and then load up in the 2023 draft. If so, it’s a good realist strategy that will hold up well in the following years.
I think by mid-season Prosser and many others may be surprised with the production Pederson is able to milk out of TL and his cobbled together supporting cast on offense.
The line is my only real concern offensively. Not content with the "weapons" but confident they can compete.
(05-01-2022, 02:38 PM)StrayaJag Wrote: [ -> ]A teams best offense is its defence
1976 wants its philosophy back thanks.
(05-02-2022, 07:09 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2022, 06:53 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Jeff Prosser on 1010 more or less expressing draft envy about other teams. His biggest complaint is the near absence of offensive players drafted by the Jaguars and it’s a fair point. He also speculated whether Pederson was really onboard with all of these picks but that’s a whole other discussion.
The way I see it, there are so many holes on this team that perhaps a decision was made to address one side of the ball first. This year was defense with the expectation that Doug Pederson could coach up the offense this season to something resembling respectability and then load up in the 2023 draft. If so, it’s a good realist strategy that will hold up well in the following years.
I think by mid-season Prosser and many others may be surprised with the production Pederson is able to milk out of TL and his cobbled together supporting cast on offense.
The line is my only real concern offensively. Not content with the "weapons" but confident they can compete.
Me too. We were two picks away from getting Linderbaum who I believe we would have picked if Baltimore hadn’t grabbed him first. I don’t consider Lloyd a consolation prize, but Linderbaum would have filled a bigger need.
Playmakers in the last 2 Super Bowls:
Tee Higgins, Jamar Chase, Joe Mixon, Tyler Boyd, Cooper Kupp, OBJ, Cam Akers, Mike Evans, AB, Gronk, Chris Godwin, Fournette, Tyreek Hill, Kelce…..
Then the Jags spend almost their entire draft on defense. The NFL is about playmakers on O and pass rushers on D.
(05-02-2022, 07:37 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Playmakers in the last 2 Super Bowls:
Tee Higgins, Jamar Chase, Joe Mixon, Tyler Boyd, Cooper Kupp, OBJ, Cam Akers, Mike Evans, AB, Gronk, Chris Godwin, Fournette, Tyreek Hill, Kelce…..
Then the Jags spend almost their entire draft on defense. The NFL is about playmakers on O and pass rushers on D.
With solid foundations. Ours is a little rickety.
(05-02-2022, 07:37 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Playmakers in the last 2 Super Bowls:
Tee Higgins, Jamar Chase, Joe Mixon, Tyler Boyd, Cooper Kupp, OBJ, Cam Akers, Mike Evans, AB, Gronk, Chris Godwin, Fournette, Tyreek Hill, Kelce…..
Then the Jags spend almost their entire draft on defense. The NFL is about playmakers on O and pass rushers on D.
And the prior 2 super bowls only had Edelman, Cooks, Blount, Woods, and Gronk.
The Jags aren't going to be contenders until Lawerence's 4th year at the earliest. There is time. Patience.
(05-02-2022, 07:58 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2022, 07:37 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Playmakers in the last 2 Super Bowls:
Tee Higgins, Jamar Chase, Joe Mixon, Tyler Boyd, Cooper Kupp, OBJ, Cam Akers, Mike Evans, AB, Gronk, Chris Godwin, Fournette, Tyreek Hill, Kelce…..
Then the Jags spend almost their entire draft on defense. The NFL is about playmakers on O and pass rushers on D.
And the prior 2 super bowls only had Edelman, Cooks, Blount, Woods, and Gronk.
The Jags aren't going to be contenders until Lawerence's 4th year at the earliest. There is time. Patience.
Well that’s not true. The 2 SBs you’re referencing (Chiefs 49ers and Rams Pats) had Hill, Kelce, Manny Sanders, Kittle, Deebo, Watkins, and Gurley in addition to what you laid out.
My main point is that I don’t think the Jags have the amount of playmakers needed in todays NFL. Now it’s still early in the process of building a roster (for the future) obviously but there was a ton of attention paid to the defensive side of the ball (specifically LB) and not enough (for me) on playmakers.
(05-02-2022, 08:20 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2022, 07:58 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]And the prior 2 super bowls only had Edelman, Cooks, Blount, Woods, and Gronk.
The Jags aren't going to be contenders until Lawerence's 4th year at the earliest. There is time. Patience.
Well that’s not true. The 2 SBs you’re referencing (Chiefs 49ers and Rams Pats) had Hill, Kelce, Manny Sanders, Kittle, Deebo, Watkins, and Gurley in addition to what you laid out.
My main point is that I don’t think the Jags have the amount of playmakers needed in todays NFL. Now it’s still early in the process of building a roster (for the future) obviously but there was a ton of attention paid to the defensive side of the ball (specifically LB) and not enough (for me) on playmakers.
My bad I meant patriots/rams and patriots/eagles. And gurley wasn't the same guy that year, so does he really count?
I totally understand not having playmakers, but there is time. This rebuild was never going to be microwaved. It is more like a soufflé.
(05-02-2022, 08:20 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2022, 07:58 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]And the prior 2 super bowls only had Edelman, Cooks, Blount, Woods, and Gronk.
The Jags aren't going to be contenders until Lawerence's 4th year at the earliest. There is time. Patience.
Well that’s not true. The 2 SBs you’re referencing (Chiefs 49ers and Rams Pats) had Hill, Kelce, Manny Sanders, Kittle, Deebo, Watkins, and Gurley in addition to what you laid out.
My main point is that I don’t think the Jags have the amount of playmakers needed in todays NFL. Now it’s still early in the process of building a roster (for the future) obviously but there was a ton of attention paid to the defensive side of the ball (specifically LB) and not enough (for me) on playmakers.
Which reinforces my belief the FO is building each side of the ball in successive years. Lawrence is young and growing, we have time.
Interesting complaints. About half before the draft were espousing taking edge, best player available, have a strategy ... etc. After last season Kahn does an exhaustive search and finally picks a GM. (one that has some success) He sits down with the GM, Tony and builds a comprehensive plan covering the whole off season. During free agency they begin implementing it. During the draft the Jags go out and scout the bejeebus out of the prospects, talk to everyone that knows them (and some that don't), bring some here to talk to. In fact probably the most intensive pre-draft we have ever done. Build a board with everyone on the payroll in the room. Then during the draft they stick to the board THEY built, not some consortium of sportswriters, some kind of national sportswriter group think. They draft like there are no names, just players and the abilities they see. What happens? Well the draft ranking people don't like being ignored. They register their displeasure by grading the draft low, (I saw a D lol) Well last year was a C, the 10 years previous most were A's and we were terrible. To me that is a good sign we may be on a better trajectory. We haven't done this kind of thing since 1995/6....
(05-02-2022, 08:43 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2022, 08:20 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Well that’s not true. The 2 SBs you’re referencing (Chiefs 49ers and Rams Pats) had Hill, Kelce, Manny Sanders, Kittle, Deebo, Watkins, and Gurley in addition to what you laid out.
My main point is that I don’t think the Jags have the amount of playmakers needed in todays NFL. Now it’s still early in the process of building a roster (for the future) obviously but there was a ton of attention paid to the defensive side of the ball (specifically LB) and not enough (for me) on playmakers.
Which reinforces my belief the FO is building each side of the ball in successive years. Lawrence is young and growing, we have time.
You’re most likely right but my issue stems from maximizing Trevor while he’s on his rookie contract.
In 2 years, when the Jags (hopefully) accumulate offensive playmakers, Trevor will (hopefully) command a 300 million dollar contract.
(04-30-2022, 09:35 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 09:13 PM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]Whatever dude, Walker was not the best player at his position, let alone in the draft.
I have to agree
One analyst stated Travon was the 1st ever #1 pick not to be on the All American team or All Conference Team.
Looks like we got ourselves a Sleeper with the #1 pick.
(05-02-2022, 12:28 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2022, 10:36 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]People still say this? like the Rams? Colts? Tampa 2020? Kansas? Eagles?
Then it doesn't matter who they picked you could still say he was BAP. Any coach/gm can claim they picked BAP, doesn't mean it is
Lol you made my point for me.
The rams, Tampa, eagles, and kc all had good defenses.
The scores on those SBs?
They had good defenses yes, great D's? lol no "Defense wins championships" Those teams won their SB because of their Defense? LMAO
I guess Rams weren't full of Offensive stars
Same with the Bucs
Same with KC (except in 2020 when their O-line was utter crap)
And Eagles scored 41 on their SB win and allowed 33
Yeah, they definitely won because of their Defense.
(05-02-2022, 06:59 AM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-02-2022, 06:06 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Just because these players are new to Trevor Lawrence doesn't necessarily make them improved enough to get the desired results. Of the entire group of new starters, only Engram and Scherff could even remotely be considered a dominant player or represent a match up advantage. Perhaps if Walker Little assumes the RT spot over Taylor, he will prove to be a dominant player. Etienne is still unproven. Kirk and Zay Jones are like the offensive versions of our DL signings from last year, although nobody argues we dramatically overpaid for any of our DL signings.
I agree that the improved defense should help the offense.
It's possible for the offense to be improved from last year. in fact, it's almost impossible for there to not to be any offensive improvement from last year. But a lot of that improvement will simply come from Pederson and his influence on Trevor Lawrence. I'm not sure how much will come from improved personnel, but at this point, I can't say this is a playoff personnel grouping offensively.
Of course, I hope like hell I am wrong about that.
You have to crawl before you can walk. I mean did anyone really learn anything about Lawrence or most of the other offensive piece last year?
This is the year to figure out really in the NFL, what Lawrence can do. Sure dominant players helps with that evaluation some, but not really. If he is the guy and getting better, the coaches/FO will see it, the fans will see it, and the league will see it.
Without Angels in the Endzone, playoffs should not really be in the conversation for 2022. I get most of these guys are signed for 2 years. But that also means in 2 years when the Jags really know what Lawrence can do, they can be more targeted in getting the guys they actually need to build a contender. And by then, hopefully they have developed 3 years of draft picks to follow through on that plan.
This is no longer a 3 year plan (T-Law's 3rd year) to contender status. We lost that opportunity with the disaster of 2021. It is now closer to a 5 year plan.
It’s never a 5 year plan in the nfl. If it takes that long, you will simply be rebuilding again. We should be competitive within 2 years.
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