Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Unfortunately, this looks about right to me since it factors in draft capital not just overall hauls. Small reach on Walker, decent value on Lloyd, big reach on Fortner, decent value on Muma, huge reaches for all day 3 picks. 

(05-01-2022, 12:52 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Look at these other teams man. Fins added Tyreek for Tua. Zach Wilson now has Garrett Wilson, Elijah Moore, Michael Carter, Conklin, Breece Hall and others. Eagles added AJ Brown. For me, it’s about being aggressive when you have a young QB on a rookie contract. I don’t think they were aggressive enough on the offensive side of the ball and my guess is that it’ll show this season. The saving grace is Pederson and Trevor. They may be able to hide the lack of speed and talent on offense.

The Steelers took a QB on Thursday and already added as much to help him in 2 days than we have to help Trevor in 2 years...and they already had good weapons with Diontae, Claypool, and Freiermuth.

How good can the defense be with an offense that doesn't average 14 points a game? That's my complaint, all this draft work doesn't help a team that can't score.

(05-01-2022, 12:52 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-01-2022, 11:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]They'll be a lot better, but with so many new players, some of them rookies, it'll take time.  

Also, I don't know what you mean when you say, "They better..."  Usually, "They better..." is followed by, "...or..."  So, they better turn around fast, or what?

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I'm going to say 10th to 12th.  So many new players, including quite a few rookies who've never played a down in the NFL.

They better turn it around fast or all that money spent and all those draft picks will be for not and it’ll be another wasted off season by the Jags.

I got some faith in Pederson/Caldwell for the defense but I was preaching all off season about surrounding Trevor with playmakers.

They added Kirk and then just about nothing. Zay Jones is a no body for me. Look at these other teams man. Fins added Tyreek for Tua. Zach Wilson now has Garrett Wilson, Elijah Moore, Michael Carter, Conklin, Breece Hall and others. Eagles added AJ Brown. For me, it’s about being aggressive when you have a young QB on a rookie contract. I don’t think they were aggressive enough on the offensive side of the ball and my guess is that it’ll show this season. The saving grace is Pederson and Trevor. They may be able to hide the lack of speed and talent on offense.

You didn't mention Walker Little, Scherff, Etienne, and Engram

(05-01-2022, 11:56 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-01-2022, 11:23 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]No. Im saying that they spent a ton of money on defense, used 3 of their first 4 picks on defense and spent even more draft picks on defense.

This better turn around fast and into an elite defense very quickly.

I think the offense will be very behind the D.

They'll be a lot better, but with so many new players, some of them rookies, it'll take time.  

Also, I don't know what you mean when you say, "They better..."  Usually, "They better..." is followed by, "...or..."  So, they better turn around fast, or what?

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(05-01-2022, 11:56 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I think we will be a top 10 defense this year. I'm going to say 7 or 8 overall defense.

I'm going to say 10th to 12th.  So many new players, including quite a few rookies who've never played a down in the NFL.

(Emphasis added)

Whoa!

Way to call your shots, guys!

I believe we will be improved.  I'm not yet prepared to say top ten.

If Walker devlops quickly and is everything Baalke says he could be, then yes, I could see top ten.

If Walker develops slowly, I think the run defense improves, and the underneath pass defense improves due to our LBs, but I don't see top ten under those circumstances.

I think much of the defensive improvement will be predicated, in part, on offensive improvement.  The offense will simply have to sustain more drives for the defense to improve.  We can't have any more games like the SF game were we had four offensive plays through the 2nd quarter.

(05-01-2022, 01:15 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]How good can the defense be with an offense that doesn't average 14 points a game? That's my complaint, all this draft work doesn't help a team that can't score.

I don’t think the offense is a deficient as you think. It’s a better offense, two solid TE to work with, new receivers that if they can actually catch a ball thrown to them and not drop it will be an automatic improvement. Two stud RB’s and a vastly improved O-line and a QB that has real talent. With the right coaching, the Jags could be dangerous.

(05-01-2022, 01:16 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-01-2022, 12:52 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]They better turn it around fast or all that money spent and all those draft picks will be for not and it’ll be another wasted off season by the Jags.

I got some faith in Pederson/Caldwell for the defense but I was preaching all off season about surrounding Trevor with playmakers.

They added Kirk and then just about nothing. Zay Jones is a no body for me. Look at these other teams man. Fins added Tyreek for Tua. Zach Wilson now has Garrett Wilson, Elijah Moore, Michael Carter, Conklin, Breece Hall and others. Eagles added AJ Brown. For me, it’s about being aggressive when you have a young QB on a rookie contract. I don’t think they were aggressive enough on the offensive side of the ball and my guess is that it’ll show this season. The saving grace is Pederson and Trevor. They may be able to hide the lack of speed and talent on offense.

You didn't mention Walker Little, Scherff, Etienne, and Engram

I said playmakers and sure…. You can add ETN (wasted 1st rounder when you could have had Elijah Moore) and Engram (I actually like this signing)

But the point remains that the Jags haven’t added enough playmakers in what was once the worst playmaking group in the league. I think the Bears have a worse playmaking group and then it’s a toss up between a bunch of others.

(05-01-2022, 01:15 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]How good can the defense be with an offense that doesn't average 14 points a game? That's my complaint, all this draft work doesn't help a team that can't score.

Well, we did hire 2 new WRs, a TE, and a pro-bowl caliber OG in free agency, plus we hired a Super-Bowl winning HC who's really the offensive coordinator, plus, we have a QB who was a rookie last year and should be taking a step forward this year.  Plus Travis Etienne.   

So it's not like we haven't done ANYTHING to get better on offense.

(05-01-2022, 01:15 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]How good can the defense be with an offense that doesn't average 14 points a game? That's my complaint, all this draft work doesn't help a team that can't score.

They were 31st in the league in TD's scored passing
22nd in the league in rushing TD's

Just changing the playbook and play callers from Meyer/Baalke to Pedrerson/Taylor moves those numbers in a favorable direction.

Then you consider the pieces they DID acquire (even if they weren't the ideal choices and too few in numbers) and your have more improvement. 

I had hoped they would do more for the O-Line and the receiving corps, but I still see and expect quite a bit better than 14 points per game.

(05-01-2022, 01:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-01-2022, 01:15 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]How good can the defense be with an offense that doesn't average 14 points a game? That's my complaint, all this draft work doesn't help a team that can't score.

They were 31st in the league in TD's scored passing
22nd in the league in rushing TD's

Just changing the playbook and play callers from Meyer/Baalke to Pedrerson/Taylor moves those numbers in a favorable direction.

Then you consider the pieces they DID acquire (even if they weren't the ideal choices and too few in numbers) and your have more improvement. 

I had hoped they would do more for the O-Line and the receiving corps, but I still see and expect quite a bit better than 14 points per game.

Especially if the defense can get some stops and turnovers, and give the offense more chances to score.

Look no further than the jaguars 2017 offensive production to see how defense can improve an offense.

(05-01-2022, 01:32 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Look no further than the jaguars 2017 offensive production to see how defense can improve an offense.

If that defense can make Blake Bortles look good, imagine what this year's can do for Trevor.

And here's a table of a ton of post draft grades, which doesn't factor in draft capital. 

(05-01-2022, 01:25 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-01-2022, 01:16 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]You didn't mention Walker Little, Scherff, Etienne, and Engram

I said playmakers and sure…. You can add ETN (wasted 1st rounder when you could have had Elijah Moore) and Engram (I actually like this signing)

But the point remains that the Jags haven’t added enough playmakers in what was once the worst playmaking group in the league. I think the Bears have a worse playmaking group and then it’s a toss up between a bunch of others.

Kinda like the Pats playmakers with a young Brady when they started their dynasty and won 3 out of 4?  Or the playmakers Doug had when the Eagles won the SB?  We will see if it was a wasted pick.  I think Etienne will be huge for this offense this year and far from a wasted pick.  I would of liked to add a true number 1 WR but i like the idea of beefing up this defense and trying to make it elite is a good strategy. A top D, Trevor, and a healthy Etienne I feel can win this division this year

(05-01-2022, 01:43 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]And here's a table of a ton of post draft grades, which doesn't factor in draft capital. 

The negative draft grade come from taking Walker over Hutch.  We all knew that was coming with the risk.  Seattle got a F grade the year they drafted Russell Wilson.  Teams gave the Pats a F when they drafted Logan Mankins years ago because most had a 4th round grade on him and didn't know who he was.  He went on to 7 Pro Bowls and 5 All Pro teams.

(05-01-2022, 01:43 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]And here's a table of a ton of post draft grades, which doesn't factor in draft capital. 

The Giants have the 6th best on here and the 30th best on the other one you posted lol

(05-01-2022, 01:43 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]And here's a table of a ton of post draft grades, which doesn't factor in draft capital. 

Interesting that the almighty Patriots suck big donkey...

(05-01-2022, 12:58 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-01-2022, 12:41 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Truthfully the most critical fans are the most invested. If you watch hot garbage and don't call it out, you probably don't care much. He obviously cares as do I. Jaguar football is one of my favorite things to keep up with.. even if it's mostly depressing during the actual games lol.

While you're not wrong, there comes a point with age that you have to realize that you can't get too upset about something you literally have zero control of.

This should be required reading for entry to this site.

(05-01-2022, 02:04 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-01-2022, 01:43 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]And here's a table of a ton of post draft grades, which doesn't factor in draft capital. 

Interesting that the almighty Patriots suck big donkey *****.

One guy gave the Texans a F grade lol.  I thought they had a decent draft.  Their pick of Stingley is like our pick of Walker, all potential. Stingley has more potential than maybe any cor er drafted since Patrick Pete

(05-01-2022, 02:00 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]The Giants have the 6th best on here and the 30th best on the other one you posted lol

That's exactly the difference in considering draft capital vs overall value. It's especially bad that we did bad in both. We had very high draft capital and did very badly on an expected value basis and even managed to do pretty poorly in overall value.

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(05-01-2022, 02:04 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting that the almighty Patriots suck big donkey...

I actually like some of the players they took, but everyone they took was taken at least a full round if not more early.