(09-07-2022, 10:02 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2022, 10:00 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]These discussions make me laugh. I don't know how you guys can postulate about anything. Trump is a known liar, but you know who else has lied repeatedly? The FBI and the media. Just wait and see. Some of you get too invested in your narrative before any facts come out, which is why you can't tell you're being lied to.
Dude. You may be the most condescending poster on this board. Get off your high horse for once and stop pretending like you're better than everyone.
I'm sorry you feel so insecure.
(09-07-2022, 10:19 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2022, 10:00 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]These discussions make me laugh. I don't know how you guys can postulate about anything. Trump is a known liar, but you know who else has lied repeatedly? The FBI and the media. Just wait and see. Some of you get too invested in your narrative before any facts come out, which is why you can't tell you're being lied to.
There are facts in this case that neither side denies.
He took numerous government documents from the White House when he left office.
Many of them were very highly classified at some point.
He did not turn them over when asked, or when served with a subpoena.
His lawyers denied he had them.
Then the FBI went in and found them.
Those are all undisputed facts.
You didn't learn last time?
I have yet to see a single classified document that Trump possessed.
WaPo is claiming that some of the material Trump had was the nuclear secrets of another country. Big if true. Is a military prosecution possible?
WaPo: Big claims on Monday, back page retraction on Friday.
(09-07-2022, 11:50 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I have yet to see a single classified document that Trump possessed.
Why would you need to see them? He's admitted that he had them.
(09-07-2022, 12:25 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2022, 11:50 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]I have yet to see a single classified document that Trump possessed.
Why would you need to see them? He's admitted that he had them.
Well, he's a liar. I can't possibly believe a confession without concrete proof.
(09-07-2022, 08:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Who knows how all this will turn out? I sure don't. What I would like to know, though, is why Trump took classified documents with him when he left office. I have yet to year any plausible explanation. And if he declassified them, why does the special master need a top secret security clearance to see them?
Obviously you are not very familiar with how documents become "classified". I tried to explain it before and I'll try again as someone who has handled classified material during a full career.
This is a hypothetical example. President Trump is on a phone call with say Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He takes notes as they are speaking. During their conversation, the Prime Minister mentions say a birthday for his grandchild. On a separate sheet of paper, President Trump makes a note so that a gift can be sent.
By default, because of who he was talking to, all notes taken are immediately "classified" to the appropriate level. There is an entry in the database that says something to the effect of "X number of pages". So in our example, perhaps he took 3 pages of notes. Pages 1 and 2 are notes related to something "Top Secret" while page 3 is his personal note regarding the birthday. By default his personal note regarding the birthday is "Top Secret" even though it is essentially harmless to the country.
President Trump wanted that note as a memoir for his Presidential Library, so that's why he took it (only page 3).
As to your last question, in order to access any material deemed "classified" a person has to have two things. 1) The level of classification or higher (in this case Top Secret since that is how the document was originally labeled). 2) A "need to know". Just because I might have a Top Secret Clearance that doesn't mean that I can read just any document with that classification level. The claim by the DOJ is that the documents were "classified" and that would come from the inventory entry of "phone call xx/xx/xxxx page 3 of 3 President notes".
The speculation by the media that these were "high level secrets" and that he "might try to sell them" is the most absurd thing that I have seen in the press.
(09-07-2022, 01:34 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2022, 08:04 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Who knows how all this will turn out? I sure don't. What I would like to know, though, is why Trump took classified documents with him when he left office. I have yet to year any plausible explanation. And if he declassified them, why does the special master need a top secret security clearance to see them?
Obviously you are not very familiar with how documents become "classified". I tried to explain it before and I'll try again as someone who has handled classified material during a full career.
This is a hypothetical example. President Trump is on a phone call with say Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He takes notes as they are speaking. During their conversation, the Prime Minister mentions say a birthday for his grandchild. On a separate sheet of paper, President Trump makes a note so that a gift can be sent.
By default, because of who he was talking to, all notes taken are immediately "classified" to the appropriate level. There is an entry in the database that says something to the effect of "X number of pages". So in our example, perhaps he took 3 pages of notes. Pages 1 and 2 are notes related to something "Top Secret" while page 3 is his personal note regarding the birthday. By default his personal note regarding the birthday is "Top Secret" even though it is essentially harmless to the country.
President Trump wanted that note as a memoir for his Presidential Library, so that's why he took it (only page 3).
As to your last question, in order to access any material deemed "classified" a person has to have two things. 1) The level of classification or higher (in this case Top Secret since that is how the document was originally labeled). 2) A "need to know". Just because I might have a Top Secret Clearance that doesn't mean that I can read just any document with that classification level. The claim by the DOJ is that the documents were "classified" and that would come from the inventory entry of "phone call xx/xx/xxxx page 3 of 3 President notes".
The speculation by the media that these were "high level secrets" and that he "might try to sell them" is the most absurd thing that I have seen in the press.
That's a whole lot of wishful speculation.
The Presidential Records Act would also play a role in this scenario.
This whole thread is wishful speculation.
(09-07-2022, 02:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2022, 01:34 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously you are not very familiar with how documents become "classified". I tried to explain it before and I'll try again as someone who has handled classified material during a full career.
This is a hypothetical example. President Trump is on a phone call with say Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He takes notes as they are speaking. During their conversation, the Prime Minister mentions say a birthday for his grandchild. On a separate sheet of paper, President Trump makes a note so that a gift can be sent.
By default, because of who he was talking to, all notes taken are immediately "classified" to the appropriate level. There is an entry in the database that says something to the effect of "X number of pages". So in our example, perhaps he took 3 pages of notes. Pages 1 and 2 are notes related to something "Top Secret" while page 3 is his personal note regarding the birthday. By default his personal note regarding the birthday is "Top Secret" even though it is essentially harmless to the country.
President Trump wanted that note as a memoir for his Presidential Library, so that's why he took it (only page 3).
As to your last question, in order to access any material deemed "classified" a person has to have two things. 1) The level of classification or higher (in this case Top Secret since that is how the document was originally labeled). 2) A "need to know". Just because I might have a Top Secret Clearance that doesn't mean that I can read just any document with that classification level. The claim by the DOJ is that the documents were "classified" and that would come from the inventory entry of "phone call xx/xx/xxxx page 3 of 3 President notes".
The speculation by the media that these were "high level secrets" and that he "might try to sell them" is the most absurd thing that I have seen in the press.
That's a whole lot of wishful speculation.
The Presidential Records Act would also play a role in this scenario.
It's not "wishful speculation", it is simply answering TRM's question as to why a former President would have "classified" information. I clearly said that it was a hypothetical situation and explained how it
could happen. I never at any time said that it was fact.
You and the other far-left democrats in your party along with the MSM want to portray this as a "national security breach". I would bet money that it's far from that.
The bottom line is that this was nothing more than a political "hit job" carried out by the current regime's DOJ and parroted in the State Controlled Media.
(09-07-2022, 04:15 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2022, 02:39 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]That's a whole lot of wishful speculation.
The Presidential Records Act would also play a role in this scenario.
It's not "wishful speculation", it is simply answering TRM's question as to why a former President would have "classified" information. I clearly said that it was a hypothetical situation and explained how it could happen. I never at any time said that it was fact.
You and the other far-left democrats in your party along with the MSM want to portray this as a "national security breach". I would bet money that it's far from that.
The bottom line is that this was nothing more than a political "hit job" carried out by the current regime's DOJ and parroted in the State Controlled Media.
If you don’t ban me, I’d be glad to kick him in the nuts for you. Assuming he has them.
(09-07-2022, 06:28 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2022, 04:15 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]It's not "wishful speculation", it is simply answering TRM's question as to why a former President would have "classified" information. I clearly said that it was a hypothetical situation and explained how it could happen. I never at any time said that it was fact.
You and the other far-left democrats in your party along with the MSM want to portray this as a "national security breach". I would bet money that it's far from that.
The bottom line is that this was nothing more than a political "hit job" carried out by the current regime's DOJ and parroted in the State Controlled Media.
If you don’t ban me, I’d be glad to kick him in the nuts for you. Assuming he has them.
Stop.. just stop.. It's not free..
$2.00 per kick.. He's agreed to donate half the proceeds to purple testicular global warming..
$5.00 with steel toes..
(09-07-2022, 07:07 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2022, 06:28 PM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ]If you don’t ban me, I’d be glad to kick him in the nuts for you. Assuming he has them.
Stop.. just stop.. It's not free..
$2.00 per kick.. He's agreed to donate half the proceeds to purple testicular global warming..
$5.00 with steel toes..
The steel toe option… is that 5.00/pair? Or per kick? And are we sure he doesn’t actually like it? He could be into it.
(09-07-2022, 12:10 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]WaPo is claiming that some of the material Trump had was the nuclear secrets of another country. Big if true. Is a military prosecution possible?
Way late on that, already posted it. They are the favorite leaker for the FBI.
Read what I posted. Trump is playing them. Why didn't they name the country? The country is most likely Iran and the classified documents are the crap that Obama did with Iran deal. It would kill Obama, Biden, and maybe even Clinton with that info released.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
I wish Trump was half as smart as you think he is.
(09-07-2022, 09:44 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I wish Trump was half as smart as you think he is.
He doesn't have to be that smart to beat idiots. How many times have they tried to frame him already? They continue to lose. Trump is also not stupid. He may not be a genius but he is definitely intelligent enough to not lose his family money and to grow it.
Most people also don't know what Trump was doing in the 80s with his casino. He actually was "working" with the FBI. There are proposals documented about him going to the FBI and offering to create undercover positions to help shut the mob down. It's unknown if that happened but Trump did have a mob member that was an FBI informant working as his labor liason or something like that.
I'm guessing Trump did it to help himself because it would break the cost barriers for construction to get rid of the mob or at least to get them to cut him breaks. He knows how the FBI works.
With Trump's lawsuits against the dems, he has the evidence that he declassified and took with him. The FBI knows he has it, they also know it was declassified. Trump can't just say the evidence is real and have people believe it, you literally have to show them its real. He probably didn't want a raid but maybe he did. Look at the dates on image the FBI released. Those dates correspond to some real interesting things that happened during the Trump presidency.
The story is so crazy that it's believable at this point that Trump wanted them to raid to validate that the documents were in fact the previously classified documents that he declassified when he left office. Now he has the FBI saying these documents were classified at the top levels. He walks into court and says here the FBI confirmed these are all real, issue me an immediate judgement against the dems.
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Judge unseals additional portions of heavily-redacted Trump Mar-a-Lago affidavit
Reinhart released a new version of the affidavit, unsealing additional sections that provide details on the timing of subpoenas and Trump's cooperation
U.S. Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart on Tuesday unsealed additional portions of the heavily redacted affidavit used to justify the raid of former President Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home.
When Reinhardt first released an unredacted version of the affidavit last month, approximately 20 pages of the 38-page affidavit were either significantly or fully redacted.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/judge-u...-affidavit
I would say that this BS is getting old real fast but....... These DemocRAT attacks on Trump since he became President have been old for a very long time........
Dem Officials Out for Blood - Hint Potential Reason to Launch New Raid on Trump Property
Citing no evidence at all, New York Democratic Rep. Carolyn Maloney is once again attempting to use the power of the federal government to investigate former President Donald Trump over alleged “classified” presidential records he may have in his possession.
https://www.westernjournal.com/dem-offic...xA7mS8tyF4
Let me channel my best non-thinking moderate position: Well, The Good Info foundation is just a private organization. It's not a government organization. We are still for capitalism, right? We shouldn't suppress free speech, should we?