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The Wall Street Journal is reporting that FBI agents took boxes of classified documents from Mar-A-Lago, including some classified as "top secret." They recovered 4 sets of documents classified "top secret," 3 sets classified "secret," and 3 sets classified "confidential."
Trump's lawyers say he used his authority to declassify those documents before he left office, but there are pretty strict procedures for doing that. The President doesn't get to just wave his hand and pronounce them "declassified." I guess we'll find out if those documents were declassified or not.
DrudgeReport has a great headline: "Feds Hunt Stolen Nuke Docs" with a picture of Trump and a nuclear bomb going off in the background. You have to laugh at that level of sensationalism.
This whole thing is nothing more than a political "witch hunt" with the MSM using "exclusive" headlines.
As somebody that has worked for the Federal Government for 30+ years and handled lots of classified material I can say this.
Something as simple as getting a new computer and putting an operating system on it is a simple thing. As soon as that computer is plugged in to a classified network it becomes "classified" even though it has no data on it, only an operating system. Everything and anything related to that computer is "classified information" including the vendor, model, operating system installed, etc...
I am no huge fan of Trump, but it's not like he has/had the launch codes for nukes located somewhere.
Assume that there was some kind of nuke project called "X". The project might be classified Top Secret which means that anything related to it is also Top Secret. If there were documents with a vendor for hardware for that project (say Dell Computers) any of those documents would be "classified" even though it's a common product that any company can buy.
There really is nothing there. There really is no way that "criminal intent" can be proven. It's nothing more than an attempt at the DNC and the current regime to disqualify DJT from running for office again.
This is really going to backfire on the current regime.
(08-12-2022, 02:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]The Wall Street Journal is reporting that FBI agents took boxes of classified documents from Mar-A-Lago, including some classified as "top secret." They recovered 4 sets of documents classified "top secret," 3 sets classified "secret," and 3 sets classified "confidential."
Trump's lawyers say he used his authority to declassify those documents before he left office, but there are pretty strict procedures for doing that. The President doesn't get to just wave his hand and pronounce them "declassified." I guess we'll find out if those documents were declassified or not.
DrudgeReport has a great headline: "Feds Hunt Stolen Nuke Docs" with a picture of Trump and a nuclear bomb going off in the background. You have to laugh at that level of sensationalism.
Actually no. He can wave his hand.
(08-12-2022, 05:04 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Item 2A: an SCI document. That's not good.
https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/c...0_15-1.pdf
It's not like the president has unilateralauthority to determine classification status.
This is actually an even greater example of media power than state authority. They are going to push thus blatantly false narrative right through grand jury.
It'd be beautiful if it wasn't nihilistic orwelian propaganda.
Of course channel 4 teasing this story in a manner in which sounds damning
So think through the "story" being told.
The docs were in boxes that were already known.
They had already been there, already looked at them, etc.
They waited until 8/5 for the warrant.
They then waited 3 days to serve the warrant.
So something so top secret was there but it was fine to just wait that long. Then wait 3 more days.
Here's the biggest issue. The top secret docs were so top secret that the FBI agents couldn't actually view or be in possession of them without clearance that they didn't have. If it was nuclear docs, there definently aren't 30 agents with clearance.
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(08-12-2022, 11:50 PM)p_rushing Wrote: [ -> ]So think through the "story" being told.
The docs were in boxes that were already known.
They had already been there, already looked at them, etc.
They waited until 8/5 for the warrant.
They then waited 3 days to serve the warrant.
So something so top secret was there but it was fine to just wait that long. Then wait 3 more days.
Here's the biggest issue. The top secret docs were so top secret that the FBI agents couldn't actually view or be in possession of them without clearance that they didn't have. If it was nuclear docs, there definently aren't 30 agents with clearance.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Moreover, nuclear, thermonuclear, intergalactic etc. There isn't a person alive qualified to second guess TRUMP about the classification status of anything removed while he was POTUS.
(08-12-2022, 08:18 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-12-2022, 02:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]The Wall Street Journal is reporting that FBI agents took boxes of classified documents from Mar-A-Lago, including some classified as "top secret." They recovered 4 sets of documents classified "top secret," 3 sets classified "secret," and 3 sets classified "confidential."
Trump's lawyers say he used his authority to declassify those documents before he left office, but there are pretty strict procedures for doing that. The President doesn't get to just wave his hand and pronounce them "declassified." I guess we'll find out if those documents were declassified or not.
DrudgeReport has a great headline: "Feds Hunt Stolen Nuke Docs" with a picture of Trump and a nuclear bomb going off in the background. You have to laugh at that level of sensationalism.
Actually no. He can wave his hand.
(08-12-2022, 05:04 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Item 2A: an SCI document. That's not good.
https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/c...0_15-1.pdf
It's not like the president has unilateralauthority to determine classification status.
This is actually an even greater example of media power than state authority. They are going to push thus blatantly false narrative right through grand jury.
It'd be beautiful if it wasn't nihilistic orwelian propaganda.
If what you say is true, then it would be impossible to ever prosecute a former President for taking classified documents out of the White House, because he could just claim he declassified them. This would give any former President the power to freely publish any of our national secrets. Think that through. Joe Biden loses the next election and decides to declassify the plans to all our latest weapons systems and send them to the Chinese. According to you, he could do that with impunity.
There is a process that is normally followed.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-classified-records/
Trump's defenders claim these documents were declassified, but they just failed to mark them "declassified" which is part of the normal procedure. I would be interested to see what is in these documents. That shouldn't be a problem, since they have supposedly been declassified, right? It would also be interesting to see what evidence he has that he did declassify them, and why he thought it was okay to declassify them. One of them was marked at the highest level of classification. I wonder what was in that one, and why Trump thought it was okay to declassify it and take it to Mar-A-Lago.
(08-13-2022, 06:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-12-2022, 08:18 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Actually no. He can wave his hand.
It's not like the president has unilateralauthority to determine classification status.
This is actually an even greater example of media power than state authority. They are going to push thus blatantly false narrative right through grand jury.
It'd be beautiful if it wasn't nihilistic orwelian propaganda.
If what you say is true, then it would be impossible to ever prosecute a former President for taking classified documents out of the White House, because he could just claim he declassified them. This would give any former President the power to freely publish any of our national secrets. Think that through. Joe Biden loses the next election and decides to declassify the plans to all our latest weapons systems and send them to the Chinese. According to you, he could do that with impunity.
There is a process that is normally followed.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-classified-records/
Trump's defenders claim these documents were declassified, but they just failed to mark them "declassified" which is part of the normal procedure. I would be interested to see what is in these documents. That shouldn't be a problem, since they have supposedly been declassified, right? It would also be interesting to see what evidence he has that he did declassify them, and why he thought it was okay to declassify them. One of them was marked at the highest level of classification. I wonder what was in that one, and why Trump thought it was okay to declassify it and take it to Mar-A-Lago.
He doesn't have to claim anything, the President can and does declassify by action alone. There's no ceremony, no incantation, no journal entry...nothing. The Executive has that right and authority and Biden should be fighting this not instigating it.
“DEVELOPING: Sources say the FBI agents and officials who were involved in the raid on former President Trump’s home work in the same CounterIntelligence Division of the FBI that investigated Trump in the Russiagate hoax and are actively under criminal investigation by Special Counsel John Durham for potentially abusing their power investigating Trump in the Russian fraud and therefore have a potential conflict of interest and should have been RECUSED from participating in this supposed “espionage” investigation at Mar-a-Lago.”
(08-13-2022, 07:05 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ] (08-13-2022, 06:20 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]If what you say is true, then it would be impossible to ever prosecute a former President for taking classified documents out of the White House, because he could just claim he declassified them. This would give any former President the power to freely publish any of our national secrets. Think that through. Joe Biden loses the next election and decides to declassify the plans to all our latest weapons systems and send them to the Chinese. According to you, he could do that with impunity.
There is a process that is normally followed.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-classified-records/
Trump's defenders claim these documents were declassified, but they just failed to mark them "declassified" which is part of the normal procedure. I would be interested to see what is in these documents. That shouldn't be a problem, since they have supposedly been declassified, right? It would also be interesting to see what evidence he has that he did declassify them, and why he thought it was okay to declassify them. One of them was marked at the highest level of classification. I wonder what was in that one, and why Trump thought it was okay to declassify it and take it to Mar-A-Lago.
He doesn't have to claim anything, the President can and does declassify by action alone. There's no ceremony, no incantation, no journal entry...nothing. The Executive has that right and authority and Biden should be fighting this not instigating it.
But does he have to provide evidence that he actually did it, other than just claiming he did it? Because if he can just claim he did it, then he can take any classified document, without telling anyone. Is that okay with you? What if it was a list of all our spies in China? Should he be able to take that with him when he leaves office, and store it in a box at home, never having told anyone he was going to do that?
Shouldn't he follow the normal procedure, which involves bringing in the heads of the agencies affected and going through a logical process, including discussion, and marking the document "declassified?" Apparently he didn't do any of that. He just decided to take stuff home, including at least one document of the highest classification level.
What if he said, "Gee, this is a really cool weapon system. I think I'll that this one with me." Is that okay with you? Just take any classified document and if he's found out, claim he declassified them?
President Trump ordered the documents to be declassified. But the swamp monsters at the DOJ failed to obey.
“SUBJECT: Declassification of Certain Materials Related to the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation
“By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following“
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/pre...stigation/
(08-13-2022, 07:15 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-13-2022, 07:05 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He doesn't have to claim anything, the President can and does declassify by action alone. There's no ceremony, no incantation, no journal entry...nothing. The Executive has that right and authority and Biden should be fighting this not instigating it.
But does he have to provide evidence that he actually did it, other than just claiming he did it? Because if he can just claim he did it, then he can take any classified document, without telling anyone. Is that okay with you? What if it was a list of all our spies in China? Should he be able to take that with him when he leaves office, and store it in a box at home, never having told anyone he was going to do that?
Shouldn't he follow the normal procedure, which involves bringing in the heads of the agencies affected and going through a logical process, including discussion, and marking the document "declassified?" Apparently he didn't do any of that. He just decided to take stuff home, including at least one document of the highest classification level.
What if he said, "Gee, this is a really cool weapon system. I think I'll that this one with me." Is that okay with you? Just take any classified document and if he's found out, claim he declassified them?
You're questioning now because of Trump what has always been the case for the President. As the Chief Executive he had the power to do what he did and now it's being exploited for political gain by his opponents. That exploitation should bother you but it doesn't because of how you feel about Trump. You might want to change the powers granted the President but that wasn't until Trump did it. This whole thing is Political Theater, nothing more.
(08-13-2022, 07:33 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]President Trump ordered the documents to be declassified. But the swamp monsters at the DOJ failed to obey.
“SUBJECT: Declassification of Certain Materials Related to the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation
“By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following“
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/pre...stigation/
Are those the documents that were seized in the raid?
(08-13-2022, 07:44 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-13-2022, 07:33 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]President Trump ordered the documents to be declassified. But the swamp monsters at the DOJ failed to obey.
“SUBJECT: Declassification of Certain Materials Related to the FBI’s Crossfire Hurricane Investigation
“By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following“
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/pre...stigation/
Are those the documents that were seized in the raid?
Yes, among others
(08-13-2022, 07:15 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (08-13-2022, 07:05 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]He doesn't have to claim anything, the President can and does declassify by action alone. There's no ceremony, no incantation, no journal entry...nothing. The Executive has that right and authority and Biden should be fighting this not instigating it.
But does he have to provide evidence that he actually did it, other than just claiming he did it? Because if he can just claim he did it, then he can take any classified document, without telling anyone. Is that okay with you? What if it was a list of all our spies in China? Should he be able to take that with him when he leaves office, and store it in a box at home, never having told anyone he was going to do that?
Shouldn't he follow the normal procedure, which involves bringing in the heads of the agencies affected and going through a logical process, including discussion, and marking the document "declassified?" Apparently he didn't do any of that. He just decided to take stuff home, including at least one document of the highest classification level.
What if he said, "Gee, this is a really cool weapon system. I think I'll that this one with me." Is that okay with you? Just take any classified document and if he's found out, claim he declassified them?
The procedure is as follows:
Having a majority of electors, He was sworn in Jan 2017 as the President of the United States. Having been so sworn, he is at the top of and has unilateral authority over the armed forces, all state secrets and the classification there of. As such, it is his sole direction what is or is not classified and who may or may not have access to certain information.
The legal reasoning to try and frame the exercise of due authority as a potential criminal cation is specious in general, to use it 91 days b4 an election is corrupt on its face and to direct it @ the head of the opposition party, former head of state, and front runner for the republican nomination is something ain to a banana republic not THE Republic.
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