(04-21-2023, 07:49 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2023, 07:18 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I am not sold on Van Ness just yet. Haven't studied him much. But to be honest, I am less jaded against him than I am the Clemson DE., Too many Clemson DEs have been abject failures in the NFL for me to take a chance on this guy.
As for Dawand Jones in Rd 2, I pass. I firmly believe a player can be too big to succeed-even at T. Jones was very big at the combine, and while he has shown better feet than other too big guys like Mike Williams, Aaron Gibson, et al, I still think he's too big to be a true success at RT. I'd rather have the Tennessee RT first then come back and get a guy like Will McDonald in the 2nd.
Van Ness is strong as hell. Manhandled Ohio St's Paris Johnson Jr. in a few contests and he's supposed to be one of the top OT's to come off the board next Thursday. I like the fact that he's lined up all over the line and has shown flashes and consistency attacking the OT and interior.
Would be an excellent compliment to Walker and we have to prepare for life without Josh Allen more than likely post 2023. Dawand I think can be whipped into shape. He just has certain traits you can't teach nor coach. Which is his obvious size and his quick feet.
As a 1B alternative in RD1 and RD2. These would also be my favorite fallback options if we can't land Van Ness nor Jones in RD1 and RD2 respectively.
I would take Isaiah Foskey out of Notre Dame with the 24th overall selection and not lose much sleep over it if we truly desire and seek a pass rusher early next Thursday. Foskey has been a very damn good consistent presence over the last two years for the golden domers. Would be hard pressed to find another prospect as consistently as good as he's been.
With the 56th selection. I would opt for a guard there instead of a tackle if Jones is off the board. I truly covet Cody Mauch there. I just don't see him being there for us unfortunately. With that said. I would take Joe Tippmann or Luke Wypler and plug them in at LG as rookies. Tippmann especially. Both of these guys played Center in college and they played it relatively well. We have Fortner already in this role but adding a strong, versatile guy right next to him with the eyes of a Center seems like a damn good idea there.
24th - Isaiah Foskey
56th - Joe Tippmann
I'm with you on Foskey. I'd be very happy if he was the pick at 24. Pro football network has him as the 21st player on their bigboard. Foskey has had very good production the last few years at a big time school, he's an elite athlete, decent against the run, and can play standing up or with his hand in the dirt. He also has good size and with good coaching I think could turn into a Pro Bowl type play in a year or 2. He's the most underrated player in this draft imo. Nobody really talks about him when talking about the top pass rushers.
(04-21-2023, 07:54 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I think I said this a couple months ago but this draft is going to be wild from start to finish.
I think we see lots of perceived reaches, players falling and tons of questionable picks. The top end talent is weak but there are a lot of players with round 2/3 grades.
This is one of those drafts that will determine which front offices and GMs are best at talent evaluators. That group of guys for about player 20 to player 50, the gap isn't that big for a lot of people. Some GMs might see it differently though and be able to come out on top and pick the top guys and have an accurate bigboard. Hopefully Doug and Baalke have their board right and the players in the right order
1B choices:
24th – Isaiah Foskey – EDGE – Notre Dame
56th – Joe Tippmann – LG/C – Wisconsin
88th – Yaya Diaby – EDGE - Louisville
121st – Riley Moss – CB – Iowa
127th – Warren McClendon – RT - Georgia
185th – Nick Broeker – OG/OT – Ole Miss
202nd – Jerrod Clark – DT/NT – Coastal Carolina
208th – Brayden Willis – TE/FB/HB – Oklahoma
226th – Noah Gindorff – TE/OT – North Dakota St
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
(04-21-2023, 07:56 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2023, 07:49 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Van Ness is strong as hell. Manhandled Ohio St's Paris Johnson Jr. in a few contests and he's supposed to be one of the top OT's to come off the board next Thursday. I like the fact that he's lined up all over the line and has shown flashes and consistency attacking the OT and interior.
Would be an excellent compliment to Walker and we have to prepare for life without Josh Allen more than likely post 2023. Dawand I think can be whipped into shape. He just has certain traits you can't teach nor coach. Which is his obvious size and his quick feet.
As a 1B alternative in RD1 and RD2. These would also be my favorite fallback options if we can't land Van Ness nor Jones in RD1 and RD2 respectively.
I would take Isaiah Foskey out of Notre Dame with the 24th overall selection and not lose much sleep over it if we truly desire and seek a pass rusher early next Thursday. Foskey has been a very damn good consistent presence over the last two years for the golden domers. Would be hard pressed to find another prospect as consistently as good as he's been.
With the 56th selection. I would opt for a guard there instead of a tackle if Jones is off the board. I truly covet Cody Mauch there. I just don't see him being there for us unfortunately. With that said. I would take Joe Tippmann or Luke Wypler and plug them in at LG as rookies. Tippmann especially. Both of these guys played Center in college and they played it relatively well. We have Fortner already in this role but adding a strong, versatile guy right next to him with the eyes of a Center seems like a damn good idea there.
24th - Isaiah Foskey
56th - Joe Tippmann
I'm with you on Foskey. I'd be very happy if he was the pick at 24. Pro football network has him as the 21st player on their bigboard. Foskey has had very good production the last few years at a big time school, he's an elite athlete, decent against the run, and can play standing up or with his hand in the dirt. He also has good size and with good coaching I think could turn into a Pro Bowl type play in a year or 2. He's the most underrated player in this draft imo. Nobody really talks about him when talking about the top pass rushers.
That's why I like him for us at 24. Not sure why he's being mocked into the early parts of RD2 but his RAS, production and character is better than a lot of the other guys I see getting drafted in the 20th - 31st range. He fits a need. The value is not even up for debate there. Lukas Van Ness and Isaiah Foskey are my top choices next Thursday night.
I would take both of those guys over Darnell Wright and Brian Branch. I think your Nickel/CB dilemma is resolved if you're hitting the QB more frequently or you can resolve it outright in RD4. No need to take a chance on Branch that early. His speed is still a concern for me in that role. 4.5 is nice until he bites on a run fake and gets toasted by a smaller, faster receiver lined up on him.
I don't even know if he can run and gun with some of the elite TE's in the NFL.
(04-21-2023, 09:03 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Would love Branch or Torrence. LG is a bigger need than T imo.
https://twitter.com/jordandelugo/status/...27329?s=20
I replied to him on twitter yesterday. I think it's Nolan Smith, Brian Branch and Dalton Kincaid in that order.
(04-20-2023, 05:55 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2023, 01:17 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]In all honestly, just hoping for at least 1 decent pass rusher and some big uglies.. I don't have a preference.
I’m right there with ya on that. Just give me a guy that can put the QB in the dirt. We’ve never seen a 15+sack player around these parts.
we have seen a 15+ sack player, it just takes them three seasons to get there!
(04-21-2023, 09:07 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2023, 07:56 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm with you on Foskey. I'd be very happy if he was the pick at 24. Pro football network has him as the 21st player on their bigboard. Foskey has had very good production the last few years at a big time school, he's an elite athlete, decent against the run, and can play standing up or with his hand in the dirt. He also has good size and with good coaching I think could turn into a Pro Bowl type play in a year or 2. He's the most underrated player in this draft imo. Nobody really talks about him when talking about the top pass rushers.
That's why I like him for us at 24. Not sure why he's being mocked into the early parts of RD2 but his RAS, production and character is better than a lot of the other guys I see getting drafted in the 20th - 31st range. He fits a need. The value is not even up for debate there. Lukas Van Ness and Isaiah Foskey are my top choices next Thursday night.
I would take both of those guys over Darnell Wright and Brian Branch. I think your Nickel/CB dilemma is resolved if you're hitting the QB more frequently or you can resolve it outright in RD4. No need to take a chance on Branch that early. His speed is still a concern for me in that role. 4.5 is nice until he bites on a run fake and gets toasted by a smaller, faster receiver lined up on him.
I don't even know if he can run and gun with some of the elite TE's in the NFL.
(04-21-2023, 09:03 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Would love Branch or Torrence. LG is a bigger need than T imo.
https://twitter.com/jordandelugo/status/...27329?s=20
I replied to him on twitter yesterday. I think it's Nolan Smith, Brian Branch and Dalton Kincaid in that order.
Branch is a SS imo that can play nickle. He's a tackling machine and playmaker that would replace Jenkins. I think he could be an elite SS. I'd love the Branch pick
(04-20-2023, 08:27 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2023, 08:32 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]1-3 brings up an interesting scenario. Which do y'all prefer?
Jags take a TE in RD 1, trade for Baker, Engram plays out his tag year and moves on
OR
Jags take Branch in RD 1, pass on Baker, sign Engram to a multi-year deal
Easily the first scenario, for several reasons.
First, just at face value, we walk away with 3 players, the Rd 1 TE, Engram (if only for a year) and Baker. In the second scenario, we miss out on Baker and end up with only two players.
Second, the 1st scenario enables the Jaguars to run effective two TE sets in addition to the other matchup and personnel groupinggs our personnel would allow us to enjoy. Scenario two only allows us to run nickel defense.
Question: Why are we restricted to only one year with Engram in scenario 1?
My assumption is Baker's salary prohibits us from pursuing Engram long-term. Basically you get to pay for one name. Baker or Engram?
(04-21-2023, 04:06 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2023, 09:03 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Would love Branch or Torrence. LG is a bigger need than T imo.
https://twitter.com/jordandelugo/status/...27329?s=20
But T is harder to find than G. More valuable too.
That said, I'd be happy with Torrence and any number of other players.
You take a tackle and he might not even start this year. I think you could upgrade Cam but I don't think it's a need and I think Little will settle in at RT as he get more experience there. I also think Torrence is better than most tackles in this draft. Just take whoever you feel will be the best player.
I don't see the Jaguars taking an OL in the first round. They could possibly go EDGE or DB. I'm all for strengthening the OL. And they will definitely do that between 2nd-4th rounds.
Over 6'6" almost 250, 4.36, and 40" vert lol. Crazy. He could of been a star if he didnt get on dope. Those one handed catches were insane.
https://youtu.be/mmKmhQOH514
(04-21-2023, 07:14 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Over 6'6" almost 250, 4.36, and 40" vert lol. Crazy. He could of been a star if he didnt get on dope. Those one handed catches were insane.
https://youtu.be/mmKmhQOH514
‘Get on dope’. You think he just suddenly started doing coke when he got to the NFL? LOL. He was sawft. That was his problem. The Arkansas Armadillo.
(04-21-2023, 05:02 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2023, 04:06 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]But T is harder to find than G. More valuable too.
That said, I'd be happy with Torrence and any number of other players.
You take a tackle and he might not even start this year. I think you could upgrade Cam but I don't think it's a need and I think Little will settle in at RT as he get more experience there. I also think Torrence is better than most tackles in this draft. Just take whoever you feel will be the best player.
Given the state of this team, there would be very few first year starters. But even assuming a T doesn't start at T his rookie year, if we hit on the pick, it'll be with it. Jonathan Ogden didn't start at T for the Ravens his rookie year. He actually started inside at G. Does that mean he wasn't worth the 4th overall pick in 1996? Of course not. I'm thinking there is a good chance we will lose/part company with Cam Robinson after this season since the bulk of the cap liability will be gone after this season. We will need that cap room to re-sign Trevor Lawrence. Once he's gone, Trevor Lawrence will still need protection. At minimum, we'll still have Walker Little at one of the tackles. It would help the offense tremendously if our replacements at T would be at least familiar with the offense, how to break down film as a professional, etc
I thinkTorrence would be a fine addition to the team and would almost certaintly be a huge upgrade at LG. But if a T prospect of comparable talent can actually succeed outside and Torrence can't, I'd be willing to let him sit a year if it helps ensure better protection and run blocking along the OL.
Do not chase an edge rusher that could be a bust. This team needs an immediate impact. The safer bet would be at cb or guard.
(04-22-2023, 12:44 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]Do not chase an edge rusher that could be a bust. This team needs an immediate impact. The safer bet would be at cb or guard.
Virtually every player can have this said about them in any round. There's only a handful of safe bets every year. If you're going to draft an edge rusher I always harp on seven main things:
1. Does the production on the field match the athleticism that we see at the combine and PRO day? Does the RAS match up?
2. Does he fit this scheme specifically or are we trying to pigeon hole him into something he's not?
3. What's his win rate%?
4. Is he consistently getting better year-over-year? Minimum two. Three or more being even better.
5. Can he keep his motor going for all four quarters?
6. Is he a leader on the field and off the field?
7. Does he have a presence that could command double teams?
There's three edge rushers that I would take in the first round that fit this criteria above, they don't have to hit every note but they at least hit four or more. Lukas Van Ness, Isaiah Foskey & Will McDonald IV.
I don't think we could go wrong with any of those three guys in RD1 next Thursday.
(04-21-2023, 07:14 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Over 6'6" almost 250, 4.36, and 40" vert lol. Crazy. He could of been a star if he didnt get on dope. Those one handed catches were insane.
https://youtu.be/mmKmhQOH514
I remember watching him at a home game during his rookie season. He took what felt like three, four steps out of the wildcat formation and he picked-up a 1st down. Made it look easy because of his long strides. Probably should have had a 1,000 yard season had it not been for that suspension.
We could have had Vincent Jackson, same, freak athlete at that position much later on in that draft that was already familiar and comfortable as a WR. I remember as a kid wanting Heath Miller at TE that year on offense or David Pollack on defense, naturally, being a Bulldogs fan.
(04-21-2023, 09:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2023, 05:02 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]You take a tackle and he might not even start this year. I think you could upgrade Cam but I don't think it's a need and I think Little will settle in at RT as he get more experience there. I also think Torrence is better than most tackles in this draft. Just take whoever you feel will be the best player.
Given the state of this team, there would be very few first year starters. But even assuming a T doesn't start at T his rookie year, if we hit on the pick, it'll be with it. Jonathan Ogden didn't start at T for the Ravens his rookie year. He actually started inside at G. Does that mean he wasn't worth the 4th overall pick in 1996? Of course not. I'm thinking there is a good chance we will lose/part company with Cam Robinson after this season since the bulk of the cap liability will be gone after this season. We will need that cap room to re-sign Trevor Lawrence. Once he's gone, Trevor Lawrence will still need protection. At minimum, we'll still have Walker Little at one of the tackles. It would help the offense tremendously if our replacements at T would be at least familiar with the offense, how to break down film as a professional, etc
I thinkTorrence would be a fine addition to the team and would almost certaintly be a huge upgrade at LG. But if a T prospect of comparable talent can actually succeed outside and Torrence can't, I'd be willing to let him sit a year if it helps ensure better protection and run blocking along the OL.
Which tackle are you talking about would slide into G? Harrison? He is more of a fineness LT and has he ever played G? Ogden was a generational oline prospect much less a player that will be available when we pick. I think our coaching staff is higher on Cam than a lot of us, especially if he is able to stay healthy this year, of course that's a big if. I don't think we push a tackle up the board because it's a need in the future though if one falls and is at the top of the board when we pick we will grab one? I think it's more likely we grab a RT in the 3rd or 4th like McClendon than teaching for a tackle in the first
(04-21-2023, 07:14 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Over 6'6" almost 250, 4.36, and 40" vert lol. Crazy. He could of been a star if he didnt get on dope. Those one handed catches were insane.
https://youtu.be/mmKmhQOH514
Insane measurables, but once he caught the ball, he turtled. He had no run after catch skills or desire.
(04-22-2023, 10:20 AM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2023, 07:14 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Over 6'6" almost 250, 4.36, and 40" vert lol. Crazy. He could of been a star if he didnt get on dope. Those one handed catches were insane.
https://youtu.be/mmKmhQOH514
Insane measurables, but once he caught the ball, he turtled. He had no run after catch skills or desire.
His catch rate (receptions over targets) was always below average too. Was rarely willing to use his length to go up or out to get the ball.