Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

I have a scary feeling that they aren’t going to address Pass Rush l

(04-23-2023, 08:06 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]I have a scary feeling that they aren’t going to address Pass Rush l

Really?  I'd have a hard time seeing that.  

This year is the year that Balkee earns his paycheck.  As Vic Ketchman used to say, this is a crystal ball business.  

Is Kalija Cancey the next Aaron Donald?  
Is Quentin Johnson a #1 flanker?
Is Nolan smith another Georgia Athletic freak that lacks elite technique or produciton?  
Is Darnell Washington A poor Man's Travis Kelce?  

That's a lot harder than picking the best QB prospect in a generation.  

As for needs,  the biggest need this team has is talent.  Can the kid play.  If we Draft Quentin Johnson and he goes to 3 pro bowls, who will care if we added another receiver?  If we draft Cyrus torrence and he can't protect the passer, did we really fill a need?  

Last year, i think that we took more risk because as a team we underperformed in 2021 and thus had more draft capital than we really should have.  So we were able to swing for the fences and take more boom or bust candidates.  I don't think we have that luxury this year.  It's not just about how well these kids translate, its going to be about how fast they can translate.  We can't have another redshirt year for the first two picks in this draft.   KC just won a SB with an entire rookie secondary.  With our cap situation we have to hit on half the first four draft picks if we hope to get past the divisional round this year.

(04-23-2023, 10:32 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2023, 08:56 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]I still think that it’s easier to hit on a cb Than an edge rusher. I hope “we” make the right choice. Third down pass coverage is so important. Just go back and watch the jags defense trying to get off the field vs the lions last season or any team in the losing streak.

It depends. A lot of these CB's are coming into the NFL where QB's are a lot faster decision making wise, they're operating within a system that specifically schemes players open and they're making much, much more faster, tighter and accurate throws that they're not used to seeing in the NFL. 

I wouldn't mind a Cam Smith at CB or Joey Porter Jr. at CB if he fell to us. I just have some serious reservations about taking a 4.5 safety to play nickel/slot CB as a rookie in Branch. I would have a hard time justifying his selection. If you go back and look at a lot of our games last year. We simply couldn't effect the pocket and QB. 

A CB is not going to fix that. An impact presence in the interior or exterior could though.

You shouldn't really be worried about him running 4.5. Great instincts will easily make up for him not running 4.3. It's not even like 4.5 is that slow anyways lol. Also one thing is for sure, DBs that come from Bama can typically flat out play. Those guys are coached up very well at Bama.

You have to go all the way back to 2013 (Dee Milliner) to really find one that hasn't panned out in the NFL. I guess you could use Cyrus Jones in 2016 as an example as well, but he converted from WR and then he had an ACL/Meniscus injury that set him back.

(04-23-2023, 04:54 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2023, 01:28 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]This is so true! Sometimes the passionate fans inappropriately over-react to the team not addressing a position of need due to possibly missing a player they targeted who got selected by another team picking just ahead of the Jaguars. It would be wrong to then "reach" for that position when the value just isn't there. 

It is quite possible that we will miss out on either a very good pass rusher or offensive lineman since the value may not be there when they pick. Baalke or any other G.M. shouldn't ever be blamed for taking who they consider to be the BAP even when it seems the need is not so great. The 2021 drafting of Travis Etienne and Tyson Campbell is evidence of this. Many were very critical when there were much greater needs than running back (James Robinson was the team's best player the year before) and cornerback (already had Griffin and Henderson). Thankfully, the Jaguars made the selections which reflected their Draft Board  since both these players have a very good chance of being pro-bowlers as soon as next season.

One hundred percent chance that a portion of the fanbase has some sort of tantrum or at least displeasure over a decision or two. Happens every time. 
Heck - I even mentioned I don't think they are going to address OL the way I'd like them to in the post Kane quoted.
I won't lose my mind over it though.  

Personally - I've gotten much better at waiting until players get on the field for an extended period of time before I  feel like I'm justified to be "upset" about draft decisions. 

I expressed displeasure about the ETN pick but also said I was excited to see what he can bring to the table. 
If he gets better at ball security and shows a touch more consistency, I'll be happy to say I was wrong to doubt the choice. 

A far cry from the guy who literally quit the message board last year after we took Walker over Hutchinson. 
LOL

This is a big reason why I've stopped paying attention to/studying the prospects less and less as the years have gone on. The chances of this team drafting any of the players people have been pounding the table for over these past couple months are slim. As usual it'll likely be a bunch of guys none of us have even talked about/heard of.

No point in falling in love with a prospect, only to watch him go to a different team.

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(04-23-2023, 08:06 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]I have a scary feeling that they aren’t going to address Pass Rush l

They've had the most Edge/DL top 30 visits in the league. They know how big of a need it is and will definitely address it. No way they don't come away from this draft with at least 1 Edge and/or DL player.

(04-20-2023, 07:15 AM)JaguarJosh2 Wrote: [ -> ]As an Iowa fan I'd love to get Riley Moss if he fell to a later round.

I'm with you, Josh

(04-23-2023, 08:33 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2023, 08:06 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]I have a scary feeling that they aren’t going to address Pass Rush l

Really?  I'd have a hard time seeing that.  

This year is the year that Balkee earns his paycheck.  As Vic Ketchman used to say, this is a crystal ball business.  

Is Kalija Cancey the next Aaron Donald?  
Is Quentin Johnson a #1 flanker?
Is Nolan smith another Georgia Athletic freak that lacks elite technique or produciton?  
Is Darnell Washington A poor Man's Travis Kelce?  

That's a lot harder than picking the best QB prospect in a generation.  

As for needs,  the biggest need this team has is talent.  Can the kid play.  If we Draft Quentin Johnson and he goes to 3 pro bowls, who will care if we added another receiver?  If we draft Cyrus torrence and he can't protect the passer, did we really fill a need?  

Last year, i think that we took more risk because as a team we underperformed in 2021 and thus had more draft capital than we really should have.  So we were able to swing for the fences and take more boom or bust candidates.  I don't think we have that luxury this year.  It's not just about how well these kids translate, its going to be about how fast they can translate.  We can't have another redshirt year for the first two picks in this draft.   KC just won a SB with an entire rookie secondary.  With our cap situation we have to hit on half the first four draft picks if we hope to get past the divisional round this year.

Winner winner chicken dinner

Tough thing about being specific about what player, is we don't normally know enough to understand if they fit the culture. In their last interview they indicated at that time there was only 127 players they considered draft able. interesting, since 230 to 250 will be drafted, but then we only need 9.'

(04-24-2023, 12:16 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Tough thing about being specific about what player, is we don't normally know enough to understand if they fit the culture. In their last interview they indicated at that time there was only 127 players they considered draft able. interesting, since 230 to 250 will be drafted, but then we only need 9.'

That was an interesting number for sure. Probably realistic though for most teams. The projections aspect and trying to understand the needs and wants of 31 other teams is probably the hardest part of figuring it all out. 

They can always trade up or down though. Something Baalke did last year, twice. Can't wait to hear what Tony Pauline has to say at 11:20 this morning on 1010XL. If he throws names out there that most fans are not expecting or predicting? It makes me happier as a fan. 

It's telling me that the general consensus is that the overall talent is about even once you get past the top twenty players. I would be beyond thrilled to see this team draft a guy like Isaiah Foskey or Cody Mauch with the 24th overall pick. Some people on here will lose their [BLEEP] if that happens but I would be happy.

You can always start calling better blitzes to help the pass rush too. 3 more days to the draft. Walker and Allen need to take the next level step this season.

(04-24-2023, 07:08 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]You can always start calling better blitzes to help the pass rush too. 3 more days to the draft. Walker and Allen need to take the next level step this season.

The idea is that we're not going to see Allen convert those pressure percentages into actual sacks and even if he did? Going into his 5th year option with the market awaiting him he'll probably command too high of a price tag to retain his services. 

We also have to prepare for Lawrence's inevitable big fat payday and the rest of those rookies from that class to make a decision on. Drafting a viable pass rusher now to compliment Walker, who REALLY needs to take a herculean step forward this year is crucial.

(04-24-2023, 06:35 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2023, 12:16 AM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]Tough thing about being specific about what player, is we don't normally know enough to understand if they fit the culture. In their last interview they indicated at that time there was only 127 players they considered draft able. interesting, since 230 to 250 will be drafted, but then we only need 9.'

That was an interesting number for sure. Probably realistic though for most teams. The projections aspect and trying to understand the needs and wants of 31 other teams is probably the hardest part of figuring it all out. 

They can always trade up or down though. Something Baalke did last year, twice. Can't wait to hear what Tony Pauline has to say at 11:20 this morning on 1010XL. If he throws names out there that most fans are not expecting or predicting? It makes me happier as a fan. 

It's telling me that the general consensus is that the overall talent is about even once you get past the top twenty players. I would be beyond thrilled to see this team draft a guy like Isaiah Foskey or Cody Mauch with the 24th overall pick. Some people on here will lose their [BLEEP] if that happens but I would be happy.

I'm right there with you.  That's the 2 I'm hoping we take if we don't take one of the players that everyone is talking about

(04-23-2023, 08:06 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]I have a scary feeling that they aren’t going to address Pass Rush l

I have a scary feeling we are going to reach for a pass rush.

(04-24-2023, 07:11 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2023, 07:08 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]You can always start calling better blitzes to help the pass rush too. 3 more days to the draft. Walker and Allen need to take the next level step this season.

The idea is that we're not going to see Allen convert those pressure percentages into actual sacks and even if he did? Going into his 5th year option with the market awaiting him he'll probably command too high of a price tag to retain his services. 

We also have to prepare for Lawrence's inevitable big fat payday and the rest of those rookies from that class to make a decision on. Drafting a viable pass rusher now to compliment Walker, who REALLY needs to take a herculean step forward this year is crucial.

As much as I want to upgrade the O-Line early I completely agree.

(04-24-2023, 07:08 AM)Jag88 Wrote: [ -> ]You can always start calling better blitzes to help the pass rush too. 3 more days to the draft. Walker and Allen need to take the next level step this season.

But you have to remember, taking a guy out of coverage in order to help the pass rush is a zero-sum equation.

(04-24-2023, 07:26 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2023, 06:35 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]That was an interesting number for sure. Probably realistic though for most teams. The projections aspect and trying to understand the needs and wants of 31 other teams is probably the hardest part of figuring it all out. 

They can always trade up or down though. Something Baalke did last year, twice. Can't wait to hear what Tony Pauline has to say at 11:20 this morning on 1010XL. If he throws names out there that most fans are not expecting or predicting? It makes me happier as a fan. 

It's telling me that the general consensus is that the overall talent is about even once you get past the top twenty players. I would be beyond thrilled to see this team draft a guy like Isaiah Foskey or Cody Mauch with the 24th overall pick. Some people on here will lose their [BLEEP] if that happens but I would be happy.

I'm right there with you.  That's the 2 I'm hoping we take if we don't take one of the players that everyone is talking about

I get you. What if they have only like 17 guys with first round grades this draft? It is not required to GIVE 32 players first round grades. Maybe it is required of the media...lol

(04-24-2023, 07:48 AM)JaguarJosh2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2023, 08:06 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]I have a scary feeling that they aren’t going to address Pass Rush l

I have a scary feeling we are going to reach for a pass rush.

Both give me the shivers.  We may actually have the edge guys here already. What they need are the big guys in the middle to push the pocket perhaps? We really have not had that on a regular basis since Darius was here.

The closer the draft gets I think the two players that improve our roster week one are Torrance or branch, I know the value on branch may not be for everyone, but he’s on the field 2/3 of the plays sure tackler and good blitzer and instantly makes us better, I love the idea of a offensive tackle or a defensive end but picking one in the 20s is more often than not is a reach on hope, if they were believed to be first round talents at those positions they’d be gone in the top 10

(04-24-2023, 11:02 AM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ]The closer the draft gets I think the two players that improve our roster week one are Torrance or branch, I know the value on branch may not be for everyone, but he’s on the field 2/3 of the plays sure tackler and good blitzer and instantly makes us better, I love the idea of a offensive tackle or a defensive end but picking one in the 20s is more often than not is a reach on hope, if they were believed to be first round talents at those positions they’d be gone in the top 10

I haven't done the deep dive on Branch, but from what I've read, he could not only be the nickel we need right away, but perhaps the SS of the future when Jenkins is gone. 
Maybe one of our armchair scouts can confirm or deny that. 
If the Jags are able to develop a nickel from a mid/late round pick to take that spot down the road after Branch plays there in '23...  it lends more value to the Branch pick. 

I think DL/Edge is their primary target at 24, but it just depends who falls if those guys are gone.

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(04-24-2023, 07:48 AM)JaguarJosh2 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-23-2023, 08:06 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]I have a scary feeling that they aren’t going to address Pass Rush l

I have a scary feeling we are going to reach for a pass rush.

I have a feeling you're going to complain no matter what they do


I don't share this fear.
I believe this staff and FO understand value, and will identify value at 24 that addresses another need if their targeted DL/Edge guys are off the board. 
We'll see a nickel-capable DB or an offensive lineman fit need and value there if the pass better pass rush prospects are gone.

(04-24-2023, 11:02 AM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ]The closer the draft gets I think the two players that improve our roster week one are Torrance or branch, I know the value on branch may not be for everyone, but he’s on the field 2/3 of the plays sure tackler and good blitzer and instantly makes us better, I love the idea of a offensive tackle or a defensive end but picking one in the 20s is more often than not is a reach on hope, if they were believed to be first round talents at those positions they’d be gone in the top 10

Exactly. Great points. We will know for sure soon. I’m still having flash backs to taven Bryan and chassion. Please don’t do us like that again!

So, Pauline is saying it's:

Devon Witherspoon
Dionte Banks
Lukas Van Ness

That's what he's hearing and thinking. He said no chance Witherspoon is there. Banks is believed to go earlier than expected.

If Van Ness falls he's probably a Viking. We'll have to trade up more than likely for any of these guys. If he had to pick between Bresee, Van Ness and Nolan Smith.

He likes Smith, Bresee and Van Ness in that order. Unless we trade up? I would say most of us should be prepared to be underwhelmed.

There's been no word surronding us around an offensive player in RD1. But, if Darnell Wright is there. We should be considering him.

He's expecting us to take a CB in RD1 or edge rusher. I would think Cam Smith there at CB, maybe Kelee Ringo and Julius Brents could even be in play for us in RD2.

Regarding Brian Branch. He said he was a top 15 prospect prior to the 4.5 40. He doesnt like him as a nickel/slot CB. He likes him more as a FS due to range and instincts. He would be okay with that selection.
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(04-24-2023, 11:27 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]So, Pauline is saying it's:

Devon Witherspoon
Dionte Banks
Lukas Van Ness

That's what he's hearing and thinking. He said no chance Witherspoon is there. Banks is believed to go earlier than expected.

If Van Ness falls he's probably a Viking. We'll have to trade up more than likely for any of these guys. If he had to pick between Bresee, Van Ness and Nolan Smith.

He likes Smith, Bresee and Van Ness in that order. Unless we trade up? I would say most of us should be prepared to be underwhelmed.

There's been no word surronding us around an offensive player in RD1. But, if Darnell Wright is there. We should be considering him.

He's expecting us to take a CB in RD1 or edge rusher. I would think Cam Smith there at CB, maybe Kelee Ringo and Julius Brents could even be in play for us in RD2.

Regarding Brian Branch. He said he was a top 15 prospect prior to the 4.5 40. He doesnt like him as a nickel/slot CB. He likes him more as a FS due to range and instincts. He would be okay with that selection.
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FWIW - I've heard two other NFL staff veterans big on Deonte Banks to Jags at 24 - including our former staffer Dave Campo. The other I don't recall. I think I read it in a blurb at draft network's site, or PFT maybe?  It was a former coach.