(04-25-2023, 04:12 PM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ]I get everyone wants to trade back and get more picks, but in a draft as random as this one and being thin at the top level, why is anyone gonna be trading back into the first round unless one of the qbs really takes a fall which I don’t see.
Well you never know.... Play the cards as they fall!
If Robinson is on the board when we pick i could see a situation in which the Eagles, Bills, Bengals or Chiefs might get twitchy and want to put themselves ahead of the game though.
Thankfully, it’s almost Thursday..
(04-25-2023, 03:00 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2023, 02:21 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Caldwell gets one more year in my opinion. If our 3rd down defense continues to play like [BLEEP] in 2023 and our pass rush is not hitting home in spite of heavy investments made last year in free agency and in the draft, and, more than likely this weekend? He's the problem.
I also expect this offense to take another step up, which in turn, should help make our opponents a little bit more one dimensional. I think some of us forget. But, we had a handful of games last year, especially early where the offense would march down the field and get within striking distance but then a fumble, INT, bad pass, dropped pass or some goofy [BLEEP] would happen.
A lot of that slowly started to clean itself up right around when the team got back from London and I think this team will get out to faster starts in 2023. Putting a lot more pressure on our opponents to match us and play catch up instead of us trying to compensate for stepping on our own [BLEEP].
WingerDingerI actually quit trying to speculate who the Jags draft.. I've been wrong on so many occasions that I finally figured out that it's worthless for me..
But, I do know the positions I'd like drafted. Starting with Oline, Edge and TE.. Any order would be fine with me and I'll support anyone we draft..
If Michael Mayer is still on the board after the Vikings do whatever they're going to do at 23 I am going to be on here Thursday night looking for you.
![[Image: OGC.cde7c8d507c9234704f5a62a920f2b14?pid...TNJTWwI%3d]](https://www.bing.com/th/id/OGC.cde7c8d507c9234704f5a62a920f2b14?pid=1.7&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia1.tenor.com%2fimages%2fcde7c8d507c9234704f5a62a920f2b14%2ftenor.gif%3fitemid%3d14186673&ehk=yZjChkzMWnTRMchbRToJ%2bTnT00exQ%2bzHdw1UTNJTWwI%3d)
And I'll be stoned and happy as hell 
I'd be happy with a Mayer pick
From what I’ve read, the favorite choice seems to be Branch.
(04-25-2023, 01:32 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2023, 08:05 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I am leaning towards edge rusher or a pure, natural CB with the 24th overall pick. I don't think Torrence is the best guard in this class though. I think, depending on your team and who you ask? You could probably play Skoronski or Mauch at guard and get a much better athlete with better feet in that position Vs. Torrence. Not to mention the versatility those guys add.
I would rather address guard in RD3-RD4. Tackle is more important to me than LG at the moment. The biggest sleepers for me in this year's draft is LSU's Anthony Bradford and Ole Miss' Nick Broeker. Those are the guys I would take at some point this weekend. Bigger, more athletic, offer swing tackle ability in a pinch.
Will make up for Baalke passing up on Jamaree Salyer last year for a RB that he traded up for and has now signed an experienced back-up in Johnson and extended Hasty to keep higher on the depth chart.
At 24 though, if they can't land a quality edge rusher? I would rather them select Cam Smith or even Julius Brents over Brian Branch. That's how uncertain I am about him in the NFL. He's a tweener. Like you said. I have concerns with him. Especially with Caldwell defensively running the show.
I mentioned that yesterday and somehow it was misconstrued. I fault Caldwell for Walker and Lloyd not showing anything noteworthy as rookie's because they were mismanaged and played out of position. You took a big, powerful player in Walker and made him play upright on the outside which requires more thinking and lateral movement Vs. just letting him use his big, natural power and frame to pressure the inside.
You took a naturally gifted athlete in Lloyd, who played outside at Utah, not inside, OUTSIDE. You seldom blitzed him off the edge, you seldom had him around the LOS, you kept letting him sit back and he got ate alive in coverages and got exposed to the point to where he was benched for his inability to keep his [BLEEP] together when crossing routes were used against our defense.
My biggest complaint and concern is this. Everybody is clamoring for a [BLEEP] nickel/slot CB, at 24. A NICKEL/SLOT CB. That's insane! When we COULD NOT EFFECT THE QB last year, at all! Down the stretch we had two things consistently show up.
1. We couldn't effect the opposing QB.
2. We couldn't buy our QB enough time.
That's all I keep seeing in both losses to Kansas City last year and during the play-off's. Not enough pocket collapsing and not enough pocket space for Lawrence to step up and comfortably hit those long plays downfield. A Nickel CB is not going to resolve this problem. Especially a rookie. One of you numbers guys can go out and break it down for me. But, in the long run. What are the odds that a nickel CB will have a higher snap count than an actual edge rusher?
Caldwell is the team's weakest link. He's a newbie coordinator, who in his quest to prove himself creatively misplays his cards. Instead of allowing blue chip talent like Lloyd and Walker do what they do best, as you said, he's consumed by "versatility."
I wish Doug would've hired someone proven. Anyway, let's hope Caldwell improves in year two. Baalke should simply draft the best defensive talent available rather than catering to Caldwell's wish list of projected "versatile" weapons, like Branch. The Sacksonville defense was able to overcome Todd Wash's scheming deficiencies most of the time, but Wash still managed to put Poz on receivers and get pencil whipped badly by elite offensive coordinators like Shanahan. Caldwell so far seems a notch above Wash, fortunately.
The silver lining is Doug. He's going to pull him aside and let him know, "hey, were in the window. The guys we draft have to be blessed to play day one. Pair it down a little"
.Buddy Ryan had to do it. It's nothing new.
(04-25-2023, 04:57 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2023, 03:00 PM)WingerDinger Wrote: [ -> ]And I'll be stoned and happy as hell
I'd be happy with a Mayer pick
Nah, he’s not good at separating. He’s good at point of catch, but he’s not going to move the needle much for the offense.
The draft is such a crapshoot. Jerry Rice was passed up for being slow, Tom Brady fell to the 6th round, look how many bust the Jaguars have drafted despite being graded highly.
(04-25-2023, 10:27 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]The draft is such a crapshoot. Jerry Rice was passed up for being slow, Tom Brady fell to the 6th round, look how many bust the Jaguars have drafted despite being graded highly.
Yes it is. Need a little bit of luck.
(04-26-2023, 08:06 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Draft Day Eve
Yep. Getting closer. Always fun. Can't wait to hear any tidbits or breaking news between today and right up to the hour leading into the draft kick-off coverage. Sometimes something juicy leaks and it's always fun.
Yes yes. It’s finally almost here.
(04-25-2023, 08:51 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2023, 04:57 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I'd be happy with a Mayer pick
Nah, he’s not good at separating. He’s good at point of catch, but he’s not going to move the needle much for the offense.
I disagree. I see him getting leverage on dbs down the field and he understands route running. Can u get leverage and outmuscle defender, that's getting dowfield s te in an era where a lb runs 4.6 and they think he's slow.
(04-24-2023, 09:28 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2023, 08:05 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]You guys don't want Branch at Nickel because you don't think he's fast enough, but you want him at FS where side to side speed is more important? Lol, makes zero sense boys.
I don't want him at all. I cited Tony Pauline's comments regarding him as a FS, not a nickel/slot CB.
My concern is still his speed and Caldwell being a 2nd year DC that didn't really show us anything noteworthy with Walker and Lloyd as rookies personnel wise.
He'll probably be the pick if he's on the board still. If he is? I'll just hope for the best. 
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
You said you admitted you was wrong about Caldwell last season.
(04-26-2023, 09:23 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2023, 09:28 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want him at all. I cited Tony Pauline's comments regarding him as a FS, not a nickel/slot CB.
My concern is still his speed and Caldwell being a 2nd year DC that didn't really show us anything noteworthy with Walker and Lloyd as rookies personnel wise.
He'll probably be the pick if he's on the board still. If he is? I'll just hope for the best.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
You said you admitted you was wrong about Caldwell last season.
Hmmm. Pretty sure I continued to state my reservations about him yearly. Even in the games we rallied offensively to win and with some of the defensive turnovers we lucked out with. Let's not forget he let this defense get schooled by the same exact play, just flipped, in the season finale against Dobbs and the tacks on 4th down plays.
I am also pretty sure I was calling for his potential replacement this off season. He still has to prove himself as a play caller and personnel manager. Pederson essentially threw it out there last season when the defense continued to struggle. Pederson stated he stays out of it and away from it. So, it's essentially ALL on Caldwell on the defensive side of things.
If this defense continues to suck [BLEEP] this year on 3rd downs and not converting those pressure percentages into actual sacks? He gone. Book it! I was on here [BLEEP] about the 1st half pressure approach on Mahomes in the play-off loss and wondering why he took his foot off the pedal with the pressure calls AFTER Key [BLEEP] Mahomes ankle up.
But, hey, if you've got receipts with me stating otherwise? Go on ahead and cite them.
(04-25-2023, 08:51 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2023, 04:57 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I'd be happy with a Mayer pick
Nah, he’s not good at separating. He’s good at point of catch, but he’s not going to move the needle much for the offense.
I like TEs who can both catch and block. If they can't block, they're just large WRs.
As I am sure you know, the beauty of a TE who can block is that the defense doesn't know if he's going to block or go out for a pass. That puts some stress on the defense. That's why I like TEs who can catch AND block.
(04-25-2023, 10:57 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2023, 09:43 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]This! Both lines need 2-3 players each from this draft, and a pure corner to take over for Williams eventually is also top of the list. Nickel can be found in later rounds or from the undrafted ranks. Bring in lots of competition and someone will emerge. It’s a position like running back.
A few things I'd like to unpack in these posts regarding the nickel:
- Nickel corner devaluation is officially an antiquated concept. Every year a dozen or more teams are putting premier receivers in the slot for a significant percentage of snaps. Plenty of other teams are getting their move TE matched up on the Y defender frequently by design. If you face these teams with a late round flyer at nickel you get what we got from Ceedee Lamb vs Tre Herndon last year. Nobody wants that. Jags had a nickel on the field for 70% of their snaps last year. It's important.
- Is the first round still too early to draft a nickel? Yes. I think it's early. I still feel like late 2nd round is the soonest you target a slot defender depending on positional depth that year. If I had my druthers in this year's draft we'd have a good candidate available to us in the third round. I would NOT wait until the 5th or later. You are going to be spinning your wheels again unless you hit the lottery - should you take that late round route.
- Like many - I want to see the Jags get a pass rusher early. But please don't forget that a top notch nickel will indeed give the pass rush more time to operate. We saw an uptick in our pass rush last year when Williams moved to outside CB and suddenly routes and reads were not as instantly open for opposing QBs. Adding a quality nickel will have a similar effect - and cumulatively.
I'd love to see the team address DL/Edge, OL, and nickel in that order. I think it just comes down to what's left to choose from when we're on the clock. They'll have to be flexible.
Now, if the Jags select a DB early to play nickel in 2023 - but they intend for him to take over SS in 2024, I think the late first pick would be slightly more justified. Would still like to get that player later, but... I'd get it. Jenkins is likely in his last year as a Jag and he sucks in coverage. We can get better there.
I have bleated like an injured lamb around here about how this OL wasn't very good last year despite the low # of sacks allowed and good runs produced. So I'm first in line to want O-linemen selected in this draft.
In my perfect little draft utopia we'd select a tackle (early) who might play guard for a year if he doesn't beat out one of our penciled in tackles right away. I'd also try to find a guard in the fourth round who could challenge Bartch for a start. Extra points if that guard has some center experience in his resumé.
Get Trevor a real pocket to step into instead of being forced to call so many quick release play designs and our big play percentage will skyrocket. Last year's win streak featured lots of plays designed to get the ball out quickly with smoke and mirrors ZBS looks from the line. That was Pederson wisely covering for the bad protection, but it put the onus on Trevor and it limited what he could do in those moments. Additionally - we saw designed and undesigned rollouts galore because Shatley and Fortner were being moved straight backward immediately on an inordinate amount of plays. Get a real LG in there and that changes.
Unrelated to these posts, but I have to get it off my chest: If you're calling for a RB or WR prior to the fifth and that guy doesn't have a near certain chance to be a difference making core special teamer, I can't take you seriously.
Has a nickel ever been drafted in the first round in the history of the NFL?
(04-26-2023, 09:31 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2023, 09:23 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]You said you admitted you was wrong about Caldwell last season.
Hmmm. Pretty sure I continued to state my reservations about him yearly. Even in the games we rallied offensively to win and with some of the defensive turnovers we lucked out with. Let's not forget he let this defense get schooled by the same exact play, just flipped, in the season finale against Dobbs and the tacks on 4th down plays.
I am also pretty sure I was calling for his potential replacement this off season. He still has to prove himself as a play caller and personnel manager. Pederson essentially threw it out there last season when the defense continued to struggle. Pederson stated he stays out of it and away from it. So, it's essentially ALL on Caldwell on the defensive side of things.
If this defense continues to suck [BLEEP] this year on 3rd downs and not converting those pressure percentages into actual sacks? He gone. Book it! I was on here [BLEEP] about the 1st half pressure approach on Mahomes in the play-off loss and wondering why he took his foot off the pedal with the pressure calls AFTER Key [BLEEP] Mahomes ankle up.
But, hey, if you've got receipts with me stating otherwise? Go on ahead and cite them.
I’m not gonna do you like that.
(04-26-2023, 09:49 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2023, 10:57 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]A few things I'd like to unpack in these posts regarding the nickel:
- Nickel corner devaluation is officially an antiquated concept. Every year a dozen or more teams are putting premier receivers in the slot for a significant percentage of snaps. Plenty of other teams are getting their move TE matched up on the Y defender frequently by design. If you face these teams with a late round flyer at nickel you get what we got from Ceedee Lamb vs Tre Herndon last year. Nobody wants that. Jags had a nickel on the field for 70% of their snaps last year. It's important.
- Is the first round still too early to draft a nickel? Yes. I think it's early. I still feel like late 2nd round is the soonest you target a slot defender depending on positional depth that year. If I had my druthers in this year's draft we'd have a good candidate available to us in the third round. I would NOT wait until the 5th or later. You are going to be spinning your wheels again unless you hit the lottery - should you take that late round route.
- Like many - I want to see the Jags get a pass rusher early. But please don't forget that a top notch nickel will indeed give the pass rush more time to operate. We saw an uptick in our pass rush last year when Williams moved to outside CB and suddenly routes and reads were not as instantly open for opposing QBs. Adding a quality nickel will have a similar effect - and cumulatively.
I'd love to see the team address DL/Edge, OL, and nickel in that order. I think it just comes down to what's left to choose from when we're on the clock. They'll have to be flexible.
Now, if the Jags select a DB early to play nickel in 2023 - but they intend for him to take over SS in 2024, I think the late first pick would be slightly more justified. Would still like to get that player later, but... I'd get it. Jenkins is likely in his last year as a Jag and he sucks in coverage. We can get better there.
I have bleated like an injured lamb around here about how this OL wasn't very good last year despite the low # of sacks allowed and good runs produced. So I'm first in line to want O-linemen selected in this draft.
In my perfect little draft utopia we'd select a tackle (early) who might play guard for a year if he doesn't beat out one of our penciled in tackles right away. I'd also try to find a guard in the fourth round who could challenge Bartch for a start. Extra points if that guard has some center experience in his resumé.
Get Trevor a real pocket to step into instead of being forced to call so many quick release play designs and our big play percentage will skyrocket. Last year's win streak featured lots of plays designed to get the ball out quickly with smoke and mirrors ZBS looks from the line. That was Pederson wisely covering for the bad protection, but it put the onus on Trevor and it limited what he could do in those moments. Additionally - we saw designed and undesigned rollouts galore because Shatley and Fortner were being moved straight backward immediately on an inordinate amount of plays. Get a real LG in there and that changes.
Unrelated to these posts, but I have to get it off my chest: If you're calling for a RB or WR prior to the fifth and that guy doesn't have a near certain chance to be a difference making core special teamer, I can't take you seriously.
Has a nickel ever been drafted in the first round in the history of the NFL?
Yes. They probably weren't drafted to play nickel - but they ended up there.
![[Image: 9b69a87dcc1899e1759fb03987e1cd4a]](https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/8x3aUo2ODhBxr8yz5TQgUw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTg5NDtjZj13ZWJw/https://media.zenfs.com/en/kansas_city_star_mcclatchy_articles_677/9b69a87dcc1899e1759fb03987e1cd4a)