Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(04-24-2023, 08:21 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2023, 08:05 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]You guys don't want Branch at Nickel because you don't think he's fast enough, but you want him at FS where side to side speed is more important? Lol, makes zero sense boys.

I want him as our future SS*.  He can play some nickel this year and some at Safety.  He has good speed for a SS, is a great tackler, and is very good around the line of scrimmage.  He's a good Blitzer as well

Exactly, he's much better suited for SS than FS imo. Keeping him closer to the box will lessen the chances that he gets exposed due to claimed lack of long speed. Although I'd like to see what Branch's flying 20 time was compared to the first 20 and full 40. The flying 20 is more important than the full 40 imo.

Classic example is Kyle Hamilton last year. Everybody was turned off because he ran 4.59. Which was the the slowest time of all the Safeties (IIRC), but he had one of the fastest, if not the fastest flying 20 of them all. The closing speed is far more important than the get off for a Safety.

Regardless, great football intelligence and instincts will greatly make up for speed (Jairus Byrd is a classic example, he ran 4.68 but you've never know it because of his instincts and intelligence). He has those in bunches. Plus he's physical, so you let him put his hands on people, which will also help negate most speed disadvantages he may face. Even though I don't think it'll be a problem.

Cisco and Branch would make for a perfect pairing.

(04-24-2023, 09:11 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2023, 08:21 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]I want him as our future SS*.  He can play some nickel this year and some at Safety.  He has good speed for a SS, is a great tackler, and is very good around the line of scrimmage.  He's a good Blitzer as well

Exactly, he's much better suited for SS than FS imo. Keeping him closer to the box will lessen the chances that he gets exposed due to claimed lack of long speed. Although I'd like to see what Branch's flying 20 time was compared to the first 20 and full 40. The flying 20 is more important than the full 40 imo.

Classic example is Kyle Hamilton last year. Everybody was turned off because he ran 4.59. Which was the the slowest time of all the Safeties (IIRC), but he had one of the fastest, if not the fastest flying 20 of them all. The closing speed is far more important than the get off for a Safety.

Regardless, great football intelligence and instincts will greatly make up for speed. He has those in bunches. Plus he's physical, so you let him put his hands on people, which will also help negate most speed disadvantages he may face. Even though I don't think it'll be a problem.

Cisco and Branch would make for a perfect pairing.

ed
Yes, SS that's been said.  Brian Dawkins ran a 4.61 and Ed Reed ran a 4.57.  4.58 is good speed for a SS.  He would be one of the best SS in coverage as well as a tackling and blitzing machine when needed

(04-24-2023, 08:05 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]You guys don't want Branch at Nickel because you don't think he's fast enough, but you want him at FS where side to side speed is more important? Lol, makes zero sense boys.

I don't want him at all. I cited Tony Pauline's comments regarding him as a FS, not a nickel/slot CB.

My concern is still his speed and Caldwell being a 2nd year DC that didn't really show us anything noteworthy with Walker and Lloyd as rookies personnel wise.

He'll probably be the pick if he's on the board still. If he is? I'll just hope for the best.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

(04-24-2023, 09:28 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2023, 08:05 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]You guys don't want Branch at Nickel because you don't think he's fast enough, but you want him at FS where side to side speed is more important? Lol, makes zero sense boys.

I don't want him at all. I cited Tony Pauline's comments regarding him as a FS, not a nickel/slot CB.

My concern is still his speed and Caldwell being a 2nd year DC that didn't really show us anything noteworthy with Walker and Lloyd as rookies personnel wise.

He'll probably be the pick if he's on the board still. If he is? I'll just hope for the best.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Probably because it was year 1 and they were rookies? You can't just throw the whole tool box at guys who haven't even learned the basics yet. Even with the vets, they had to learn a new system, just like the Offense did. As the season went on, you seen the improvement from both sides.

I have no doubt the Defense will be much more creative in year 2, just like the Offense will be.

(04-24-2023, 09:28 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2023, 08:05 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]You guys don't want Branch at Nickel because you don't think he's fast enough, but you want him at FS where side to side speed is more important? Lol, makes zero sense boys.

I don't want him at all. I cited Tony Pauline's comments regarding him as a FS, not a nickel/slot CB.

My concern is still his speed and Caldwell being a 2nd year DC that didn't really show us anything noteworthy with Walker and Lloyd as rookies personnel wise.

He'll probably be the pick if he's on the board still. If he is? I'll just hope for the best.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

When you look at players most ready to contribute year 1 I also think he is at the top of the list.  Id put Torrence up there as well.  I think he could come in day 1 at LG and be a huge upgrade from what we have there.  A lot of the other pass rushers and lineman I think will take some time to make a huge impact for us year one.  I do think Foskey would be one of the pass rushers more ready day 1 as well.  It would be nice to add a player that could help us a lot this year as well as the future.

(04-24-2023, 09:40 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2023, 09:28 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want him at all. I cited Tony Pauline's comments regarding him as a FS, not a nickel/slot CB.

My concern is still his speed and Caldwell being a 2nd year DC that didn't really show us anything noteworthy with Walker and Lloyd as rookies personnel wise.

He'll probably be the pick if he's on the board still. If he is? I'll just hope for the best.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

When you look at players most ready to contribute year 1 I also think he is at the top of the list.  Id put Torrence up there as well.  I think he could come in day 1 at LG and be a huge upgrade from what we have there.  A lot of the other pass rushers and lineman I think will take some time to make a huge impact for us year one.  I do think Foskey would be one of the pass rushers more ready day 1 as well.  It would be nice to add a player that could help us a lot this year as well as the future.

Not just nice, imperative.  

That's why I lean towards Torrence, or a corner.

I ronivally u can put Brian Branch obviously YouTube is limited, but the on thing I like is that he finds the ball at the top of the route.  He plays a LOT of slot corner ad made plays there.  I think u know ur going to get a solid nickel.  

But he's 195, a little sight for SS.  And while he plays a lot of nickel,  I don't see him as a guy who can kick outside and play true corner.    On tape his long speed might not have been s big question mark, but this pick eont come with Will Anderson to put in front of him.  Add to that, I think we already have 3 good safeties with Drew getting re-signed.   Do u draft  nickel @ 24?   I'd rather draft the best in class guard.

(04-25-2023, 04:53 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-24-2023, 09:40 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]When you look at players most ready to contribute year 1 I also think he is at the top of the list.  Id put Torrence up there as well.  I think he could come in day 1 at LG and be a huge upgrade from what we have there.  A lot of the other pass rushers and lineman I think will take some time to make a huge impact for us year one.  I do think Foskey would be one of the pass rushers more ready day 1 as well.  It would be nice to add a player that could help us a lot this year as well as the future.

Not just nice, imperative.  

That's why I lean towards Torrence, or a corner.

I ronivally u can put Brian Branch obviously YouTube is limited, but the on thing I like is that he finds the ball at the top of the route.  He plays a LOT of slot corner ad made plays there.  I think u know ur going to get a solid nickel.  

But he's 195, a little sight for SS.  And while he plays a lot of nickel,  I don't see him as a guy who can kick outside and play true corner.    On tape his long speed might not have been s big question mark, but this pick eont come with Will Anderson to put in front of him.  Add to that, I think we already have 3 good safeties with Drew getting re-signed.   Do u draft  nickel @ 24?   I'd rather draft the best in class guard.

I am leaning towards edge rusher or a pure, natural CB with the 24th overall pick. I don't think Torrence is the best guard in this class though. I think, depending on your team and who you ask? You could probably play Skoronski or Mauch at guard and get a much better athlete with better feet in that position Vs. Torrence. Not to mention the versatility those guys add. 

I would rather address guard in RD3-RD4. Tackle is more important to me than LG at the moment. The biggest sleepers for me in this year's draft is LSU's Anthony Bradford and Ole Miss' Nick Broeker. Those are the guys I would take at some point this weekend. Bigger, more athletic, offer swing tackle ability in a pinch. 

Will make up for Baalke passing up on Jamaree Salyer last year for a RB that he traded up for and has now signed an experienced back-up in Johnson and extended Hasty to keep higher on the depth chart. 

At 24 though, if they can't land a quality edge rusher? I would rather them select Cam Smith or even Julius Brents over Brian Branch. That's how uncertain I am about him in the NFL. He's a tweener. Like you said. I have concerns with him. Especially with Caldwell defensively running the show. 

I mentioned that yesterday and somehow it was misconstrued. I fault Caldwell for Walker and Lloyd not showing anything noteworthy as rookie's because they were mismanaged and played out of position. You took a big, powerful player in Walker and made him play upright on the outside which requires more thinking and lateral movement Vs. just letting him use his big, natural power and frame to pressure the inside. 

You took a naturally gifted athlete in Lloyd, who played outside at Utah, not inside, OUTSIDE. You seldom blitzed him off the edge, you seldom had him around the LOS, you kept letting him sit back and he got ate alive in coverages and got exposed to the point to where he was benched for his inability to keep his [BLEEP] together when crossing routes were used against our defense.

My biggest complaint and concern is this. Everybody is clamoring for a [BLEEP] nickel/slot CB, at 24. A NICKEL/SLOT CB. That's insane! When we COULD NOT EFFECT THE QB last year, at all! Down the stretch we had two things consistently show up. 

1. We couldn't effect the opposing QB.
2. We couldn't buy our QB enough time. 

That's all I keep seeing in both losses to Kansas City last year and during the play-off's. Not enough pocket collapsing and not enough pocket space for Lawrence to step up and comfortably hit those long plays downfield. A Nickel CB is not going to resolve this problem. Especially a rookie. One of you numbers guys can go out and break it down for me. But, in the long run. What are the odds that a nickel CB will have a higher snap count than an actual edge rusher?

(04-24-2023, 06:44 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Do you have any player or players you don't want the team to draft under any circumstances?  Why?

Bresee. I get real Taven Bryan vibes.

I'm not "under any circumstances" but I'm not keen on Tippman or Schmitz, unless we are fully given up on Fortner at C, and I don't see that in the tea leaves.

I don't see us taking any QB, not after re-signing CJB and having Rourke around as well.

(04-25-2023, 08:05 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-25-2023, 04:53 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Not just nice, imperative.  

That's why I lean towards Torrence, or a corner.

I ronivally u can put Brian Branch obviously YouTube is limited, but the on thing I like is that he finds the ball at the top of the route.  He plays a LOT of slot corner ad made plays there.  I think u know ur going to get a solid nickel.  

But he's 195, a little sight for SS.  And while he plays a lot of nickel,  I don't see him as a guy who can kick outside and play true corner.    On tape his long speed might not have been s big question mark, but this pick eont come with Will Anderson to put in front of him.  Add to that, I think we already have 3 good safeties with Drew getting re-signed.   Do u draft  nickel @ 24?   I'd rather draft the best in class guard.

I am leaning towards edge rusher or a pure, natural CB with the 24th overall pick. I don't think Torrence is the best guard in this class though. I think, depending on your team and who you ask? You could probably play Skoronski or Mauch at guard and get a much better athlete with better feet in that position Vs. Torrence. Not to mention the versatility those guys add. 

I would rather address guard in RD3-RD4. Tackle is more important to me than LG at the moment. The biggest sleepers for me in this year's draft is LSU's Anthony Bradford and Ole Miss' Nick Broeker. Those are the guys I would take at some point this weekend. Bigger, more athletic, offer swing tackle ability in a pinch. 

Will make up for Baalke passing up on Jamaree Salyer last year for a RB that he traded up for and has now signed an experienced back-up in Johnson and extended Hasty to keep higher on the depth chart. 

At 24 though, if they can't land a quality edge rusher? I would rather them select Cam Smith or even Julius Brents over Brian Branch. That's how uncertain I am about him in the NFL. He's a tweener. Like you said. I have concerns with him. Especially with Caldwell defensively running the show. 

I mentioned that yesterday and somehow it was misconstrued. I fault Caldwell for Walker and Lloyd not showing anything noteworthy as rookie's because they were mismanaged and played out of position. You took a big, powerful player in Walker and made him play upright on the outside which requires more thinking and lateral movement Vs. just letting him use his big, natural power and frame to pressure the inside. 

You took a naturally gifted athlete in Lloyd, who played outside at Utah, not inside, OUTSIDE. You seldom blitzed him off the edge, you seldom had him around the LOS, you kept letting him sit back and he got ate alive in coverages and got exposed to the point to where he was benched for his inability to keep his [BLEEP] together when crossing routes were used against our defense.

My biggest complaint and concern is this. Everybody is clamoring for a [BLEEP] nickel/slot CB, at 24. A NICKEL/SLOT CB. That's insane! When we COULD NOT EFFECT THE QB last year, at all! Down the stretch we had two things consistently show up. 

1. We couldn't effect the opposing QB.
2. We couldn't buy our QB enough time. 

That's all I keep seeing in both losses to Kansas City last year and during the play-off's. Not enough pocket collapsing and not enough pocket space for Lawrence to step up and comfortably hit those long plays downfield. A Nickel CB is not going to resolve this problem. Especially a rookie. One of you numbers guys can go out and break it down for me. But, in the long run. What are the odds that a nickel CB will have a higher snap count than an actual edge rusher?

This! Both lines need 2-3 players each from this draft, and a pure corner to take over for Williams eventually is also top of the list. Nickel can be found in later rounds or from the undrafted ranks. Bring in lots of competition and someone will emerge. It’s a position like running back.

(04-25-2023, 09:43 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-25-2023, 08:05 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I am leaning towards edge rusher or a pure, natural CB with the 24th overall pick. I don't think Torrence is the best guard in this class though. I think, depending on your team and who you ask? You could probably play Skoronski or Mauch at guard and get a much better athlete with better feet in that position Vs. Torrence. Not to mention the versatility those guys add. 

I would rather address guard in RD3-RD4. Tackle is more important to me than LG at the moment. The biggest sleepers for me in this year's draft is LSU's Anthony Bradford and Ole Miss' Nick Broeker. Those are the guys I would take at some point this weekend. Bigger, more athletic, offer swing tackle ability in a pinch. 

Will make up for Baalke passing up on Jamaree Salyer last year for a RB that he traded up for and has now signed an experienced back-up in Johnson and extended Hasty to keep higher on the depth chart. 

At 24 though, if they can't land a quality edge rusher? I would rather them select Cam Smith or even Julius Brents over Brian Branch. That's how uncertain I am about him in the NFL. He's a tweener. Like you said. I have concerns with him. Especially with Caldwell defensively running the show. 

I mentioned that yesterday and somehow it was misconstrued. I fault Caldwell for Walker and Lloyd not showing anything noteworthy as rookie's because they were mismanaged and played out of position. You took a big, powerful player in Walker and made him play upright on the outside which requires more thinking and lateral movement Vs. just letting him use his big, natural power and frame to pressure the inside. 

You took a naturally gifted athlete in Lloyd, who played outside at Utah, not inside, OUTSIDE. You seldom blitzed him off the edge, you seldom had him around the LOS, you kept letting him sit back and he got ate alive in coverages and got exposed to the point to where he was benched for his inability to keep his [BLEEP] together when crossing routes were used against our defense.

My biggest complaint and concern is this. Everybody is clamoring for a [BLEEP] nickel/slot CB, at 24. A NICKEL/SLOT CB. That's insane! When we COULD NOT EFFECT THE QB last year, at all! Down the stretch we had two things consistently show up. 

1. We couldn't effect the opposing QB.
2. We couldn't buy our QB enough time. 

That's all I keep seeing in both losses to Kansas City last year and during the play-off's. Not enough pocket collapsing and not enough pocket space for Lawrence to step up and comfortably hit those long plays downfield. A Nickel CB is not going to resolve this problem. Especially a rookie. One of you numbers guys can go out and break it down for me. But, in the long run. What are the odds that a nickel CB will have a higher snap count than an actual edge rusher?

This! Both lines need 2-3 players each from this draft, and a pure corner to take over for Williams eventually is also top of the list. Nickel can be found in later rounds or from the undrafted ranks. Bring in lots of competition and someone will emerge. It’s a position like running back.

A few things I'd like to unpack in these posts regarding the nickel:

• Nickel corner devaluation is officially an antiquated concept. Every year a dozen or more teams are putting premier receivers in the slot for a significant percentage of snaps. Plenty of other teams are getting their move TE matched up on the Y defender frequently by design. If you face these teams with a late round flyer at nickel you get what we got from Ceedee Lamb vs Tre Herndon last year. Nobody wants that. Jags had a nickel on the field for 70% of their snaps last year. It's important. 
  
• Is the first round still too early to draft a nickel?  Yes. I think it's early. I still feel like late 2nd round is the soonest you target a slot defender depending on positional depth that year. If I had my druthers in this year's draft we'd have a good candidate available to us in the third round. I would NOT wait until the 5th or later. You are going to be spinning your wheels again unless you hit the lottery - should you take that late round route. 
  
• Like many - I want to see the Jags get a pass rusher early. But please don't forget that a top notch nickel will indeed give the pass rush more time to operate. We saw an uptick in our pass rush last year when Williams moved to outside CB and suddenly routes and reads were not as instantly open for opposing QBs. Adding a quality nickel will have a similar effect - and cumulatively. 
  

I'd love to see the team address DL/Edge, OL, and nickel in that order. I think it just comes down to what's left to choose from when we're on the clock. They'll have to be flexible. 

Now, if the Jags select a DB early to play nickel in 2023 - but they intend for him to take over SS in 2024, I think the late first pick would be slightly more justified. Would still like to get that player later, but... I'd get it. Jenkins is likely in his last year as a Jag and he sucks in coverage. We can get better there. 

I have bleated like an injured lamb around here about how this OL wasn't very good last year despite the low # of sacks allowed and good runs produced. So I'm first in line to want O-linemen selected in this draft. 
In my perfect little draft utopia we'd select a tackle (early) who might play guard for a year if he doesn't beat out one of our penciled in tackles right away. I'd also try to find a guard in the fourth round who could challenge Bartch for a start. Extra points if that guard has some center experience in his resumé.  

Get Trevor a real pocket to step into instead of being forced to call so many quick release play designs and our big play percentage will skyrocket. Last year's win streak featured lots of plays designed to get the ball out quickly with smoke and mirrors ZBS looks from the line. That was Pederson wisely covering for the bad protection, but it put the onus on Trevor and it limited what he could do in those moments. Additionally  - we saw designed and undesigned rollouts galore because Shatley and Fortner were being moved straight backward immediately on an inordinate amount of plays. Get a real LG in there and that changes. 

Unrelated to these posts, but I have to get it off my chest: If you're calling for a RB or WR prior to the fifth and that guy doesn't have a near certain chance to be a difference making core special teamer, I can't take you seriously.

(04-25-2023, 10:57 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-25-2023, 09:43 AM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]This! Both lines need 2-3 players each from this draft, and a pure corner to take over for Williams eventually is also top of the list. Nickel can be found in later rounds or from the undrafted ranks. Bring in lots of competition and someone will emerge. It’s a position like running back.

A few things I'd like to unpack in these posts regarding the nickel:

• Nickel corner devaluation is officially an antiquated concept. Every year a dozen or more teams are putting premier receivers in the slot for a significant percentage of snaps. Plenty of other teams are getting their move TE matched up on the Y defender frequently by design. If you face these teams with a late round flyer at nickel you get what we got from Ceedee Lamb vs Tre Herndon last year. Nobody wants that. Jags had a nickel on the field for 70% of their snaps last year. It's important. 
  
• Is the first round still too early to draft a nickel?  Yes. I think it's early. I still feel like late 2nd round is the soonest you target a slot defender depending on positional depth that year. If I had my druthers in this year's draft we'd have a good candidate available to us in the third round. I would NOT wait until the 5th or later. You are going to be spinning your wheels again unless you hit the lottery - should you take that late round route. 
  
• Like many - I want to see the Jags get a pass rusher early. But please don't forget that a top notch nickel will indeed give the pass rush more time to operate. We saw an uptick in our pass rush last year when Williams moved to outside CB and suddenly routes and reads were not as instantly open for opposing QBs. Adding a quality nickel will have a similar effect - and cumulatively. 
  

I'd love to see the team address DL/Edge, OL, and nickel in that order. I think it just comes down to what's left to choose from when we're on the clock. They'll have to be flexible. 

Now, if the Jags select a DB early to play nickel in 2023 - but they intend for him to take over SS in 2024, I think the late first pick would be slightly more justified. Would still like to get that player later, but... I'd get it. Jenkins is likely in his last year as a Jag and he sucks in coverage. We can get better there. 

I have bleated like an injured lamb around here about how this OL wasn't very good last year despite the low # of sacks allowed and good runs produced. So I'm first in line to want O-linemen selected in this draft. 
In my perfect little draft utopia we'd select a tackle (early) who might play guard for a year if he doesn't beat out one of our penciled in tackles right away. I'd also try to find a guard in the fourth round who could challenge Bartch for a start. Extra points if that guard has some center experience in his resumé.  

Get Trevor a real pocket to step into instead of being forced to call so many quick release play designs and our big play percentage will skyrocket. Last year's win streak featured lots of plays designed to get the ball out quickly with smoke and mirrors ZBS looks from the line. That was Pederson wisely covering for the bad protection, but it put the onus on Trevor and it limited what he could do in those moments. Additionally  - we saw designed and undesigned rollouts galore because Shatley and Fortner were being moved straight backward immediately on an inordinate amount of plays. Get a real LG in there and that changes. 

Unrelated to these posts, but I have to get it off my chest: If you're calling for a RB or WR prior to the fifth and that guy doesn't have a near certain chance to be a difference making core special teamer, I can't take you seriously.

I think we'll address the nickel position in this draft for sure. I am with you in line and in agreement that it is important. I just think if we ignore the fact that our pass rush was more anemic though and the fact that we had high pressure percentages with little paydirt being hit? That should take priority over a guy that's going to maybe be on the field 70% of the time when a more effective edge rusher can just clobber the QB to the point to where on 3rd and long he's not getting 4, 5 seconds to pick apart a guy like Herndon. 

Ideally, in a perfect world? This team gets lucky and gets a trade offer to move back from 24 and they pick-up a pair of 2nd and 3rd RD selections and maybe a pick in next year's draft. The amount of guard, tackle, nickel and edge rushing prospects available in these rounds is perfect and we'll probably hit multiple, safe prospects here IMHO. 

I would be over joyed if they got a deal. We wait for the 2nd night, that's fine. They end up getting an edge rusher like Foskey or McDonald, they end up getting a tackle/guard like Mauch or Bergeron and they end up getting a corner like Brents to compliment Campbell and move Williams back inside or Sydney Brown to fit the role everybody wants Branch for early. Problem solved. It's slim it'll happen. It sure would be nice. 

I just think if they select a player like Cam Smith at CB or even Keion White at 24, a prospect that I think a lot of the media is sleeping on. We should be relatively pleased as fans. I also agree with you at RB/WR. No way in hell this team should be investing any selections there until well after round four.

I think the team trades back and acquires additional picks.

(04-25-2023, 01:05 PM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]I think the team trades back and acquires additional picks.

With whom and how many picks?

(04-25-2023, 12:03 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-25-2023, 10:57 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]A few things I'd like to unpack in these posts regarding the nickel:

• Nickel corner devaluation is officially an antiquated concept. Every year a dozen or more teams are putting premier receivers in the slot for a significant percentage of snaps. Plenty of other teams are getting their move TE matched up on the Y defender frequently by design. If you face these teams with a late round flyer at nickel you get what we got from Ceedee Lamb vs Tre Herndon last year. Nobody wants that. Jags had a nickel on the field for 70% of their snaps last year. It's important. 
  
• Is the first round still too early to draft a nickel?  Yes. I think it's early. I still feel like late 2nd round is the soonest you target a slot defender depending on positional depth that year. If I had my druthers in this year's draft we'd have a good candidate available to us in the third round. I would NOT wait until the 5th or later. You are going to be spinning your wheels again unless you hit the lottery - should you take that late round route. 
  
• Like many - I want to see the Jags get a pass rusher early. But please don't forget that a top notch nickel will indeed give the pass rush more time to operate. We saw an uptick in our pass rush last year when Williams moved to outside CB and suddenly routes and reads were not as instantly open for opposing QBs. Adding a quality nickel will have a similar effect - and cumulatively. 
  

I'd love to see the team address DL/Edge, OL, and nickel in that order. I think it just comes down to what's left to choose from when we're on the clock. They'll have to be flexible. 

Now, if the Jags select a DB early to play nickel in 2023 - but they intend for him to take over SS in 2024, I think the late first pick would be slightly more justified. Would still like to get that player later, but... I'd get it. Jenkins is likely in his last year as a Jag and he sucks in coverage. We can get better there. 

I have bleated like an injured lamb around here about how this OL wasn't very good last year despite the low # of sacks allowed and good runs produced. So I'm first in line to want O-linemen selected in this draft. 
In my perfect little draft utopia we'd select a tackle (early) who might play guard for a year if he doesn't beat out one of our penciled in tackles right away. I'd also try to find a guard in the fourth round who could challenge Bartch for a start. Extra points if that guard has some center experience in his resumé.  

Get Trevor a real pocket to step into instead of being forced to call so many quick release play designs and our big play percentage will skyrocket. Last year's win streak featured lots of plays designed to get the ball out quickly with smoke and mirrors ZBS looks from the line. That was Pederson wisely covering for the bad protection, but it put the onus on Trevor and it limited what he could do in those moments. Additionally  - we saw designed and undesigned rollouts galore because Shatley and Fortner were being moved straight backward immediately on an inordinate amount of plays. Get a real LG in there and that changes. 

Unrelated to these posts, but I have to get it off my chest: If you're calling for a RB or WR prior to the fifth and that guy doesn't have a near certain chance to be a difference making core special teamer, I can't take you seriously.

I think we'll address the nickel position in this draft for sure. I am with you in line and in agreement that it is important. I just think if we ignore the fact that our pass rush was more anemic though and the fact that we had high pressure percentages with little paydirt being hit? That should take priority over a guy that's going to maybe be on the field 70% of the time when a more effective edge rusher can just clobber the QB to the point to where on 3rd and long he's not getting 4, 5 seconds to pick apart a guy like Herndon. 

Ideally, in a perfect world? This team gets lucky and gets a trade offer to move back from 24 and they pick-up a pair of 2nd and 3rd RD selections and maybe a pick in next year's draft. The amount of guard, tackle, nickel and edge rushing prospects available in these rounds is perfect and we'll probably hit multiple, safe prospects here IMHO. 

I would be over joyed if they got a deal. We wait for the 2nd night, that's fine. They end up getting an edge rusher like Foskey or McDonald, they end up getting a tackle/guard like Mauch or Bergeron and they end up getting a corner like Brents to compliment Campbell and move Williams back inside or Sydney Brown to fit the role everybody wants Branch for early. Problem solved. It's slim it'll happen. It sure would be nice. 

I just think if they select a player like Cam Smith at CB or even Keion White at 24, a prospect that I think a lot of the media is sleeping on. We should be relatively pleased as fans. I also agree with you at RB/WR. No way in hell this team should be investing any selections there until well after round four.

I'd be OK with Cam Smith. Keion White is more of a 2nd rounder to me. He projects to be a versatile good but not great Swiss army knife like Roy Robertson-Harris. He needs a couple years to blossom. Thus, it would be a meh pick for me.  

Darious Williams does better on the outside and should stay there next season regardless of who's drafted.

(04-25-2023, 01:22 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-25-2023, 12:03 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I think we'll address the nickel position in this draft for sure. I am with you in line and in agreement that it is important. I just think if we ignore the fact that our pass rush was more anemic though and the fact that we had high pressure percentages with little paydirt being hit? That should take priority over a guy that's going to maybe be on the field 70% of the time when a more effective edge rusher can just clobber the QB to the point to where on 3rd and long he's not getting 4, 5 seconds to pick apart a guy like Herndon. 

Ideally, in a perfect world? This team gets lucky and gets a trade offer to move back from 24 and they pick-up a pair of 2nd and 3rd RD selections and maybe a pick in next year's draft. The amount of guard, tackle, nickel and edge rushing prospects available in these rounds is perfect and we'll probably hit multiple, safe prospects here IMHO. 

I would be over joyed if they got a deal. We wait for the 2nd night, that's fine. They end up getting an edge rusher like Foskey or McDonald, they end up getting a tackle/guard like Mauch or Bergeron and they end up getting a corner like Brents to compliment Campbell and move Williams back inside or Sydney Brown to fit the role everybody wants Branch for early. Problem solved. It's slim it'll happen. It sure would be nice. 

I just think if they select a player like Cam Smith at CB or even Keion White at 24, a prospect that I think a lot of the media is sleeping on. We should be relatively pleased as fans. I also agree with you at RB/WR. No way in hell this team should be investing any selections there until well after round four.

I'd be OK with Cam Smith. Keion White is more of a 2nd rounder to me. He projects to be a versatile good but not great Swiss army knife like Roy Robertson-Harris. He needs a couple years to blossom. Thus, it would be a meh pick for me.  

Darious Williams does better on the outside and should stay there next season regardless of who's drafted.

The team long ago announced their intention to keep Williams outside, hence so many CBs with nickel experience or traits being mocked and projected to the Jags.

(04-25-2023, 08:05 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-25-2023, 04:53 AM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]Not just nice, imperative.  

That's why I lean towards Torrence, or a corner.

I ronivally u can put Brian Branch obviously YouTube is limited, but the on thing I like is that he finds the ball at the top of the route.  He plays a LOT of slot corner ad made plays there.  I think u know ur going to get a solid nickel.  

But he's 195, a little sight for SS.  And while he plays a lot of nickel,  I don't see him as a guy who can kick outside and play true corner.    On tape his long speed might not have been s big question mark, but this pick eont come with Will Anderson to put in front of him.  Add to that, I think we already have 3 good safeties with Drew getting re-signed.   Do u draft  nickel @ 24?   I'd rather draft the best in class guard.

I am leaning towards edge rusher or a pure, natural CB with the 24th overall pick. I don't think Torrence is the best guard in this class though. I think, depending on your team and who you ask? You could probably play Skoronski or Mauch at guard and get a much better athlete with better feet in that position Vs. Torrence. Not to mention the versatility those guys add. 

I would rather address guard in RD3-RD4. Tackle is more important to me than LG at the moment. The biggest sleepers for me in this year's draft is LSU's Anthony Bradford and Ole Miss' Nick Broeker. Those are the guys I would take at some point this weekend. Bigger, more athletic, offer swing tackle ability in a pinch. 

Will make up for Baalke passing up on Jamaree Salyer last year for a RB that he traded up for and has now signed an experienced back-up in Johnson and extended Hasty to keep higher on the depth chart. 

At 24 though, if they can't land a quality edge rusher? I would rather them select Cam Smith or even Julius Brents over Brian Branch. That's how uncertain I am about him in the NFL. He's a tweener. Like you said. I have concerns with him. Especially with Caldwell defensively running the show. 

I mentioned that yesterday and somehow it was misconstrued. I fault Caldwell for Walker and Lloyd not showing anything noteworthy as rookie's because they were mismanaged and played out of position. You took a big, powerful player in Walker and made him play upright on the outside which requires more thinking and lateral movement Vs. just letting him use his big, natural power and frame to pressure the inside. 

You took a naturally gifted athlete in Lloyd, who played outside at Utah, not inside, OUTSIDE. You seldom blitzed him off the edge, you seldom had him around the LOS, you kept letting him sit back and he got ate alive in coverages and got exposed to the point to where he was benched for his inability to keep his [BLEEP] together when crossing routes were used against our defense.

My biggest complaint and concern is this. Everybody is clamoring for a [BLEEP] nickel/slot CB, at 24. A NICKEL/SLOT CB. That's insane! When we COULD NOT EFFECT THE QB last year, at all! Down the stretch we had two things consistently show up. 

1. We couldn't effect the opposing QB.
2. We couldn't buy our QB enough time. 

That's all I keep seeing in both losses to Kansas City last year and during the play-off's. Not enough pocket collapsing and not enough pocket space for Lawrence to step up and comfortably hit those long plays downfield. A Nickel CB is not going to resolve this problem. Especially a rookie. One of you numbers guys can go out and break it down for me. But, in the long run. What are the odds that a nickel CB will have a higher snap count than an actual edge rusher?

Caldwell is the team's weakest link. He's a newbie coordinator, who in his quest to prove himself creatively misplays his cards. Instead of allowing blue chip talent like Lloyd and Walker do what they do best, as you said, he's consumed by "versatility." 

I wish Doug would've hired someone proven. Anyway, let's hope Caldwell improves in year two. Baalke should simply draft the best defensive talent available rather than catering to Caldwell's wish list of projected "versatile" weapons, like Branch. The Sacksonville defense was able to overcome Todd Wash's scheming deficiencies most of the time, but Wash still managed to put Poz on receivers and get pencil whipped badly by elite offensive coordinators like Shanahan. Caldwell so far seems a notch above Wash, fortunately.

I actually quit trying to speculate who the Jags draft.. I've been wrong on so many occasions that I finally figured out that it's worthless for me..

But, I do know the positions I'd like drafted. Starting with Oline, Edge and TE.. Any order would be fine with me and I'll support anyone we draft..

(04-25-2023, 01:32 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-25-2023, 08:05 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I am leaning towards edge rusher or a pure, natural CB with the 24th overall pick. I don't think Torrence is the best guard in this class though. I think, depending on your team and who you ask? You could probably play Skoronski or Mauch at guard and get a much better athlete with better feet in that position Vs. Torrence. Not to mention the versatility those guys add. 

I would rather address guard in RD3-RD4. Tackle is more important to me than LG at the moment. The biggest sleepers for me in this year's draft is LSU's Anthony Bradford and Ole Miss' Nick Broeker. Those are the guys I would take at some point this weekend. Bigger, more athletic, offer swing tackle ability in a pinch. 

Will make up for Baalke passing up on Jamaree Salyer last year for a RB that he traded up for and has now signed an experienced back-up in Johnson and extended Hasty to keep higher on the depth chart. 

At 24 though, if they can't land a quality edge rusher? I would rather them select Cam Smith or even Julius Brents over Brian Branch. That's how uncertain I am about him in the NFL. He's a tweener. Like you said. I have concerns with him. Especially with Caldwell defensively running the show. 

I mentioned that yesterday and somehow it was misconstrued. I fault Caldwell for Walker and Lloyd not showing anything noteworthy as rookie's because they were mismanaged and played out of position. You took a big, powerful player in Walker and made him play upright on the outside which requires more thinking and lateral movement Vs. just letting him use his big, natural power and frame to pressure the inside. 

You took a naturally gifted athlete in Lloyd, who played outside at Utah, not inside, OUTSIDE. You seldom blitzed him off the edge, you seldom had him around the LOS, you kept letting him sit back and he got ate alive in coverages and got exposed to the point to where he was benched for his inability to keep his [BLEEP] together when crossing routes were used against our defense.

My biggest complaint and concern is this. Everybody is clamoring for a [BLEEP] nickel/slot CB, at 24. A NICKEL/SLOT CB. That's insane! When we COULD NOT EFFECT THE QB last year, at all! Down the stretch we had two things consistently show up. 

1. We couldn't effect the opposing QB.
2. We couldn't buy our QB enough time. 

That's all I keep seeing in both losses to Kansas City last year and during the play-off's. Not enough pocket collapsing and not enough pocket space for Lawrence to step up and comfortably hit those long plays downfield. A Nickel CB is not going to resolve this problem. Especially a rookie. One of you numbers guys can go out and break it down for me. But, in the long run. What are the odds that a nickel CB will have a higher snap count than an actual edge rusher?

Caldwell is the team's weakest link. He's a newbie coordinator, who in his quest to prove himself creatively misplays his cards. Instead of allowing blue chip talent like Lloyd and Walker do what they do best, as you said, he's consumed by "versatility." 

I wish Doug would've hired someone proven. Anyway, let's hope Caldwell improves in year two. Baalke should simply draft the best defensive talent available rather than catering to Caldwell's wish list of projected "versatile" weapons, like Branch. The Sacksonville defense was able to overcome Todd Wash's scheming deficiencies most of the time, but Wash still managed to put Poz on receivers and get pencil whipped badly by elite offensive coordinators like Shanahan. Caldwell so far seems a notch above Wash, fortunately.

Caldwell gets one more year in my opinion. If our 3rd down defense continues to play like [BLEEP] in 2023 and our pass rush is not hitting home in spite of heavy investments made last year in free agency and in the draft, and, more than likely this weekend? He's the problem. 

I also expect this offense to take another step up, which in turn, should help make our opponents a little bit more one dimensional. I think some of us forget. But, we had a handful of games last year, especially early where the offense would march down the field and get within striking distance but then a fumble, INT, bad pass, dropped pass or some goofy [BLEEP] would happen.

A lot of that slowly started to clean itself up right around when the team got back from London and I think this team will get out to faster starts in 2023. Putting a lot more pressure on our opponents to match us and play catch up instead of us trying to compensate for stepping on our own [BLEEP].

---

WingerDingerI actually quit trying to speculate who the Jags draft.. I've been wrong on so many occasions that I finally figured out that it's worthless for me..

But, I do know the positions I'd like drafted. Starting with Oline, Edge and TE.. Any order would be fine with me and I'll support anyone we draft..

If Michael Mayer is still on the board after the Vikings do whatever they're going to do at 23 I am going to be on here Thursday night looking for you. 

(04-25-2023, 02:21 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-25-2023, 01:32 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]Caldwell is the team's weakest link. He's a newbie coordinator, who in his quest to prove himself creatively misplays his cards. Instead of allowing blue chip talent like Lloyd and Walker do what they do best, as you said, he's consumed by "versatility." 

I wish Doug would've hired someone proven. Anyway, let's hope Caldwell improves in year two. Baalke should simply draft the best defensive talent available rather than catering to Caldwell's wish list of projected "versatile" weapons, like Branch. The Sacksonville defense was able to overcome Todd Wash's scheming deficiencies most of the time, but Wash still managed to put Poz on receivers and get pencil whipped badly by elite offensive coordinators like Shanahan. Caldwell so far seems a notch above Wash, fortunately.

Caldwell gets one more year in my opinion. If our 3rd down defense continues to play like [BLEEP] in 2023 and our pass rush is not hitting home in spite of heavy investments made last year in free agency and in the draft, and, more than likely this weekend? He's the problem. 

I also expect this offense to take another step up, which in turn, should help make our opponents a little bit more one dimensional. I think some of us forget. But, we had a handful of games last year, especially early where the offense would march down the field and get within striking distance but then a fumble, INT, bad pass, dropped pass or some goofy [BLEEP] would happen.

A lot of that slowly started to clean itself up right around when the team got back from London and I think this team will get out to faster starts in 2023. Putting a lot more pressure on our opponents to match us and play catch up instead of us trying to compensate for stepping on our own [BLEEP].

---

WingerDingerI actually quit trying to speculate who the Jags draft.. I've been wrong on so many occasions that I finally figured out that it's worthless for me..

But, I do know the positions I'd like drafted. Starting with Oline, Edge and TE.. Any order would be fine with me and I'll support anyone we draft..

If Michael Mayer is still on the board after the Vikings do whatever they're going to do at 23 I am going to be on here Thursday night looking for you. 

And I'll be stoned and happy as hell 

I get everyone wants to trade back and get more picks, but in a draft as random as this one and being thin at the top level, why is anyone gonna be trading back into the first round unless one of the qbs really takes a fall which I don’t see.