Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(08-08-2023, 05:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the controversial sentence: "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills, which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit."

Here is my proposed amended sentence: "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills, which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit, but only with permission from the master, and in almost every case, those skills were applied for the benefit of the Master, and not the slave." 

How's that?  We all agree, right?  Let's send it in.  Case closed.

Seriously, though, I would wonder, in what way would developing a skill benefit a slave?  If he became a blacksmith, did the master then allow him to own a pair of shoes?  I suppose he would not have to work dawn till dark picking cotton if he had a skill.  That's a benefit, right?  Or maybe, he wouldn't get whipped as often?  Only get whipped once a week instead of twice a week?  Or not get his pearly whites yanked out of his head so the master can have a nice set of false teeth?

(08-08-2023, 05:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the controversial sentence: "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills, which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit."

Here is my proposed amended sentence: "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills, which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit, but only with permission from the master, and in almost every case, those skills were applied for the benefit of the Master, and not the slave." 

How's that?  We all agree, right?  Let's send it in.  Case closed.

Seriously, though, I would wonder, in what way would developing a skill benefit a slave?  If he became a blacksmith, did the master then allow him to own a pair of shoes?  I suppose he would not have to work dawn till dark picking cotton if he had a skill.  That's a benefit, right?  Or maybe, he wouldn't get whipped as often?  Only get whipped once a week instead of twice a week?  Or not get his pearly whites yanked out of his head so the master can have a nice set of false teeth?

(08-08-2023, 06:27 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-08-2023, 05:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the controversial sentence: "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills, which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit."

Here is my proposed amended sentence: "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills, which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit, but only with permission from the master, and in almost every case, those skills were applied for the benefit of the Master, and not the slave." 

How's that?  We all agree, right?  Let's send it in.  Case closed.

Seriously, though, I would wonder, in what way would developing a skill benefit a slave?  If he became a blacksmith, did the master then allow him to own a pair of shoes?  I suppose he would not have to work dawn till dark picking cotton if he had a skill.  That's a benefit, right?  Or maybe, he wouldn't get whipped as often?  Only get whipped once a week instead of twice a week?  Or not get his pearly whites yanked out of his head so the master can have a nice set of false teeth?

I agree.  This isn't about reasonableness for the people in charge though.

(08-08-2023, 07:55 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-08-2023, 05:49 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the controversial sentence: "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills, which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit."

Here is my proposed amended sentence: "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills, which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit, but only with permission from the master, and in almost every case, those skills were applied for the benefit of the Master, and not the slave." 

How's that?  We all agree, right?  Let's send it in.  Case closed.

Seriously, though, I would wonder, in what way would developing a skill benefit a slave?  If he became a blacksmith, did the master then allow him to own a pair of shoes?  I suppose he would not have to work dawn till dark picking cotton if he had a skill.  That's a benefit, right?  Or maybe, he wouldn't get whipped as often?  Only get whipped once a week instead of twice a week?  Or not get his pearly whites yanked out of his head so the master can have a nice set of false teeth?

Looks reasonable with one exception. You capitalized Master. You will now be labeled as a white supremacist and cancelled.

On a serious note, I was under the impression the sentence in question referred to the ability of freed slaves to earn a living after emancipation. In the end it’s irrelevant.

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(08-08-2023, 06:27 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]I agree.  This isn't about reasonableness for the people in charge though.

Yes, yes. No one implied any differently. 

I SAID, NO ONE IMPLIED ANY DIFFERENTLY.

Just wanted to make sure you heard me way up there on your moral high horse.

(08-09-2023, 12:32 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]The Mikesez's and Marty's just don't realize this is all sound bites. We could amend the sentence in a reasonable world. It would be a simple problem to solve. Do you think that is going to make DeSantis less racist to the dems? Do you those with the bullhorns will put them down and walk away? You think they would appreciate that nuance? Nope. You might. Probably not, though, since your world is driven by the barkers.

(08-09-2023, 12:32 AM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]The Mikesez's and Marty's just don't realize this is all sound bites. 

I do realize that people are making more of this than they should.  On the other hand, ever since the Civil War, there has been an effort to whitewash what the Confederacy was fighting for.  People are sensitive to that, and don't want that type of effort to creep forward without contradiction. 

We could amend the sentence in a reasonable world. It would be a simple problem to solve. Do you think that is going to make DeSantis less racist to the dems?

I haven't seen anyone accuse DeSantis of racism.  This really isn't about racism, anyway.  It's more about people's suspicion that this is a subtle attempt to minimize what slavery really was.  People fight over smaller and smaller issues these days.  Bud Light, for example.  Tiny issue, huge controversy.  

Do you those with the bullhorns will put them down and walk away?  No.

You think they would appreciate that nuance? Nope.  No.

You might. Probably not, though, since your world is driven by the barkers.  My world is driven by the barkers?  I don't know how to respond to that.  That's just [BLEEP].  

(08-09-2023, 12:39 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]It is, Marty. You know this is a small issue. It's only an issue because it's trotted out in an effort to make DeSantis look like a racist. We have 7 pages of discussion around it. How is that not being driven by barkers?

(08-09-2023, 12:39 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]It is, Marty. You know this is a small issue. It's only an issue because it's trotted out in an effort to make DeSantis look like a racist. We have 7 pages of discussion around it. How is that not being driven by barkers?

(08-09-2023, 01:12 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]Because you aren't discovering these issues on your own. They are brought to the forefront of the discussion for specific reasons. They are amplified as a distraction, not because there is a genuine concern for resolution. I say you are beholden to the barkers because this is what they put in front of your face and it's what you concern yourself with.

There are much greater issues at play in our country, and I never see you guys talking about it. At least you have an issue you're passionate that has been constant, even if it wouldn't solve anything. I rarely ever see moderates talking about anything except what's in the news. That's a form of mind control, whether you see it or not.

(08-09-2023, 05:02 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I am trying to bring the discussion back to the facts. More importantly, I am trying to get people here to think about why we are having these discussions at all (one of the main reason you guys like to allude to "conspiracy"). I don't have a problem with the genuine pursuit of truth. I think groups function best when they are principled and are working towards the same goal. The people who bring this to the forefront of the discussion are not trying to have a real conversation about slavery. They are practicing deconstruction.

I won't drone on about it, but this is all rooted in critical theory, in which the person is just critical of the existing power structure and dynamic until they are able to bring about their desired change. It's a model for change that's rooted in progressive philosophy. The goal is not truth, but criticism. It's a garbage way to approach society building. It's intentionally divisive and unsolvable, because the catalyst for change depends on a new system entirely. I get frustrated that moderates take these people at face value. Of course there's truth to it. That's the whole point. Take the nugget of truth, bring it to the forefront of the discussion as a measure of imperfection, and promise change in a new system.

I don't really care about DeSantis, as I am not advocating for him. I don't know his motives. I just know that if he did change this, and acknowledged that it was a point worth changing, those same people would throw it in his face. And, unfortunately, I believe the moderates of the world are not principled enough to recognize that deconstruction is the goal, not the pursuit of truth. Mikey alleges that he would change his mind on DeSantis, but the barkers just pivot. It's easy to be critical. Take any person you know and imagine what you could do to them if you endlessly criticized their imperfections. It's destructive. It's not building anything, and the proof is in the pudding. Just look around.

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The only way to get these people out of society to reject their constant criticisms. You cannot solve this problem by trying to change every single thing they criticize, even if there is a nugget of truth to it. In this way, I think DeSantis is right to ignore them, even though it's a simple thing to fix. We need more solidarity in this, not because we have a perfect society, but because we need this "voice" to go away. I absolutely believe there are many ways to improve our society, but that won't be achieved through the lens of critical theory. It will only break.

(07-08-2023, 08:41 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]I grew up being taught that hating people because of skin color was wrong. I was taught too be color blind. It started with my Republican parents who instilled these values into me. So any biases I may hold were all learned through life experiences. These experiences are teaching me to be angry and even hate… 

How did it come to this? And what’s the end game? Subjecting whites to the same things blacks have experienced. I wonder how that will play out? Eventually it will just come full circle and after creating new victim class , society will then have to deal with the same thing over and over again. 

There is so much to say on this subject, so I think it’s good we start the discussion and see what we come up with…

(08-09-2023, 06:46 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-09-2023, 05:02 PM)Lucky2Last Wrote: [ -> ]I am trying to bring the discussion back to the facts. More importantly, I am trying to get people here to think about why we are having these discussions at all (one of the main reason you guys like to allude to "conspiracy"). I don't have a problem with the genuine pursuit of truth. I think groups function best when they are principled and are working towards the same goal. The people who bring this to the forefront of the discussion are not trying to have a real conversation about slavery. They are practicing deconstruction.

I won't drone on about it, but this is all rooted in critical theory, in which the person is just critical of the existing power structure and dynamic until they are able to bring about their desired change. It's a model for change that's rooted in progressive philosophy. The goal is not truth, but criticism. It's a garbage way to approach society building. It's intentionally divisive and unsolvable, because the catalyst for change depends on a new system entirely. I get frustrated that moderates take these people at face value. Of course there's truth to it. That's the whole point. Take the nugget of truth, bring it to the forefront of the discussion as a measure of imperfection, and promise change in a new system.

I don't really care about DeSantis, as I am not advocating for him. I don't know his motives. I just know that if he did change this, and acknowledged that it was a point worth changing, those same people would throw it in his face. And, unfortunately, I believe the moderates of the world are not principled enough to recognize that deconstruction is the goal, not the pursuit of truth. Mikey alleges that he would change his mind on DeSantis, but the barkers just pivot. It's easy to be critical. Take any person you know and imagine what you could do to them if you endlessly criticized their imperfections. It's destructive. It's not building anything, and the proof is in the pudding. Just look around.

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The only way to get these people out of society to reject their constant criticisms. You cannot solve this problem by trying to change every single thing they criticize, even if there is a nugget of truth to it. In this way, I think DeSantis is right to ignore them, even though it's a simple thing to fix. We need more solidarity in this, not because we have a perfect society, but because we need this "voice" to go away. I absolutely believe there are many ways to improve our society, but that won't be achieved through the lens of critical theory. It will only break.

There are people who will constantly criticize everything DeSantis does even if DeSantis repents of some of it.
These people are called hard-core, involved Democrats.  People who are heavily invested in the Democrats winning the next election.  They are simply selfish.  Just like the hard-core and invested Republicans.  There is no need to invoke critical theory or any hidden conspiracy to explain this.

(08-09-2023, 09:57 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-08-2023, 08:41 AM)Ronster Wrote: [ -> ]I grew up being taught that hating people because of skin color was wrong. I was taught too be color blind. It started with my Republican parents who instilled these values into me. So any biases I may hold were all learned through life experiences. These experiences are teaching me to be angry and even hate… 

How did it come to this? And what’s the end game? Subjecting whites to the same things blacks have experienced. I wonder how that will play out? Eventually it will just come full circle and after creating new victim class , society will then have to deal with the same thing over and over again. 

There is so much to say on this subject, so I think it’s good we start the discussion and see what we come up with…

Once again I try to stay away from such topics BUT here's My Simple Perspective. There's no such race as Whites or Blacks so would ANYBody that's present and or reading my comments be willing to change places w/an so called Black Person? Would you be willing to be subjected to the Black History? This includes yesteryear's history, yesterday's history and today's history. Within several group sessions I have YET to have an Caucasion person admit that they would want to be treated like an Black or African American person. NOT ONE PERSON.

Any Takers?

So the question is, "Is it OK to discriminate against white people"? Why?

Because White People discriminated against Black People. DUH! What is said about oneself that does to others that doesn't want the same to be done to them? I too was raised to Not be Prejudice and I have maintained such an thought/mindset. My GG Parents, My Grand Parents and My Parents would roll over in their graves to such an thought. I Refuse. The reality is that it's still being taught to this day. 

I was in an shopping center a few years ago, and I overheard a little caucasion boy about 4-5 years old as he was pointing to me say "Look daddy, there's an [BLEEP]". 

Why is it O.K. to Discriminate against an different race BUT you don't want your race Discriminated upon? Its sad to say that during My Stay above ground I won't see it change or will I. I seriously doubt it.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...