Quote:I guess it depends if we knew who else would be on the board at the time.
If we knew J.J. Watt would still be on the board at the same time, then no, I would not draft Gronk/Gonzalez over J.J. Watt.
Sub question: Is Gronk Gronk without Brady getting him the ball? Certainly he's a great player, but would we view him in the esteem we view him in with a lesser QB?
Gronks route running is laughable, he would be horrible with a bad QB. and injury prone
Justis Mosqueda @JuMosq
Since 2008, 14 receivers have been taken in the top 15 picks. Only four had better three-cone times than O.J. Howard's 6.85.
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Justis Mosqueda @JuMosq
Those receivers? A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Darrius Heyward-Bey and Odell Beckham Jr. O.J. Howard did it at two inches and 40 pounds heavier.
People really want a non explosive, already injured running back over that...craziness.
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Quote:True,, if you knew you were going to get a JJ Watt type guy, you'd take him over a "Tony Gonzalez" any day, IMO.
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for the Jags to draft Howard. However, if they're pretty sure he'll end up being "elite", I have no problem with them drafting him at all.
That's the thing though, you can never be sure (as we all know).
I understood your overall point, and agreed in principle.
Just the question you posed required my answer.
TE is important enough, IMO, to consider with a top 5 pick (assuming you have the caliber of athlete/player playing that position to warrant it), especially in the absence of a franchise QB/ dominant LT worthy of a pick that high.
In other words, given how the game is evolving, the position of TE is not an absolute bar to top 5 consideration, but generally speaking, most TEs are not good enough to warrant a pick that high.
Quote:<a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/JuMosq'>Justis Mosqueda @JuMosq</a>
Since 2008, 14 receivers have been taken in the top 15 picks. Only four had better three-cone times than O.J. Howard's 6.85.
<a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/JuMosq'>Justis Mosqueda @JuMosq</a>
Those receivers? A.J. Green, Julio Jones, Darrius Heyward-Bey and Odell Beckham Jr. O.J. Howard did it at two inches and 40 pounds heavier.
People really want a non explosive, already injured running back over that...craziness.
Like usual....No one is even talking about fournette. It's kinda sad that the guy keeps you up at night.
Quote:Not counting QBs, it can be argued he is pretty strongly considering he is also the best blocking TE in the league. Very few other players contribute to the offense no matter what the play call is.
I can buy that blocking is a point in his favor.
There's no doubt the dude is one the most athletically gifted TEs to recently be drafted. How he interviews probably will determine if he's an option at 4
Quote:I can buy that blocking is a point in his favor.
Yep, if he's like 90% of a Julio/OBJ/Brown etc in the passing game, which I think is fair when he's healthy, dominant run and pass blocking can make up the other 10%.
Howards growing on me as a pick, was very against him a few weeks ago. If we remain at #4 and Thomas/Allens injuries are too much I'd definitively rather Howard than Fournette at #4. He is still pretty raw as a receiver and a route runner so I wouldn't expect much from in year 1 other than run blocking which he should be good at right off the bat.
Quote:Howards growing on me as a pick, was very against him a few weeks ago. If we remain at #4 and Thomas/Allens injuries are too much I'd definitively rather Howard than Fournette at #4. He is still pretty raw as a receiver and a route runner so I wouldn't expect much from in year 1 other than run blocking which he should be good at right off the bat.
Howard is going to be a good one. I just think he's a guy that'll probably go in the 10-14 range. It would be a little bit of wasted value at 4. Wouldn't be mad though.
Quote:Howard is going to be a good one. I just think he's a guy that'll probably go in the 10-14 range. It would be a little bit of wasted value at 4. Wouldn't be mad though.
Thats why I'd pick him over Fournette at #4, less wasted value.
I don't understand why people are salivating over taking Howard at for but think SS at 4 is too high for a safety.
Quote:I don't understand why people are salivating over taking Howard at for but think SS at 4 is too high for a safety.
I readily defend taking both positions at 4 if a talent worthy of the pick is available. I think all of Howard, Adams, and Hooker would be worthy.
Quote:I don't understand why people are salivating over taking Howard at for but think SS at 4 is too high for a safety.
I'm cool with Safety.
If you could get a true talent there, yup.
If you think a guy is gonna be a stud, take 'em.
How many really good players throughout the league were drafted outside of the top ten picks, and likely got passed over by some teams because the position/pick value?
ALOT.
If a team thinks a player is going to be a top talent, even if it is SS, FS, TE, etc., draft them and don't look back.
Letting a stud player go by just because the "position at early pick" value doesn't fit, is a big mistake.
My opinion only.
Quote:Most talented offensive player in the league?
That's a strong statement.
I like Gronkowski as a TE, but I don't know if I would go THAT far.
I might be persuaded by him being called the biggest matchup problem in the league, but most talented offensive player? I have to think about that some more before cosigning that one.
I really dont think theres anybody that can contribute more on any given play than Gronk can. Liable to kill you stretching the field or over the middle, probably the hardest guy to cover in the red zone, and is one of if not that best blocking tight end in the league. He just provides so much in every single situation. But its certainly arguable, theres a ridiculous amount of offensive skill talent out there. He just does every single thing you can ask a receiver to do at a high level, and greatly influences your run game which makes the offense as a whole better.
Quote:I don't understand why people are salivating over taking Howard at for but think SS at 4 is too high for a safety.
I don't think too many people are saying 4 is too high for a safety. Hooker or Adams would be great picks, it's just probably not likely with Church and Gipson.
Quote:I don't think too many people are saying 4 is too high for a safety. Hooker or Adams would be great picks, it's just probably not likely with Church and Gipson.
Before we signed Church the TE at 4 is too high people were the S at 4 is too high people.
Quote:Before we signed Church the TE at 4 is too high people were the S at 4 is too high people.
The thing is that usually if you are picking that high in the draft, safety and TE are the least of your problems.
Quote:Yes, Gronk is the most talented offensive weapon in the league. Obviously he gets a boost from playing with the best QB ever but Its not that hard to separate his abilities from his QB and see hes arguably the best tight end ever.
Arguments like these are why no one takes your opinion seriously.