Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Disappointing to see Trump champion this RyanCare bill. Hopefully he encourages the House Freedom Caucus to debate and contest their bill on the floor as well. I would also like to see him to encourage House Democrats to put forth a bill, and let all three versions of a repeal/replace bill duke it out.

Why would Democrats do anything?

Not much can be worse than the current plan.  I went from having good, while not entirely economical, insurance to having insurance that isn't as good and paying over double.  This also doesn't include the over $1000 in medications I am taking a month.  I would be paying more if it weren't for the dr's that helped me find that insurance much cheaper than the big brand pharmacies were offering.

 

I'm trying to figure out why I'm paying so much more money so others can get their insurance.

Quote:Why would Democrats do anything?

 

Because ObamaCare sucks and doesn't represent what the Democrats actually want? Let the Democrats put forth a single-payer system. There may be parts of their CommieCare that can be integrated with Ryan's CronieCare and the Freedom Caucus' NoCare. It is a prime opportunity time to actually do some bipartisan negotiating.

 

Or are we so divided now that we can't have a single scintilla of bipartisanship in congress anymore?

I love the way the Trump Apologists are trying to call this RyanCare.

 

Ain't gonna work. You guys own it now. TrumpCare it is. Donnie says it's great! He's going on the road to attempt to shame Republicans into supporting this. And that will probably work, as we know the right-wing will drop their "principles" in a heart beat if it means perhaps not getting reelected.

 

Who knew health care was so complicated?

Quote:I love the way the Trump Apologists are trying to call this RyanCare.

 

Ain't gonna work. You guys own it now. TrumpCare it is. Donnie says it's great! He's going on the road to attempt to shame Republicans into supporting this. And that will probably work, as we know the right-wing will drop their "principles" in a heart beat if it means perhaps not getting reelected.

 

Who knew health care was so complicated?

 

Isn't Trump's until he signs it. Personally, I hope TrumpCare is more of the Freedom Caucus' bill than Ryan's.

Quote:Or are we so divided now that we can't have a single scintilla of bipartisanship in congress anymore?

 

Last time we did that we got the Most Kids Left Behind Act.

Quote:I love the way the Trump Apologists are trying to call this RyanCare.

 

Ain't gonna work. You guys own it now. TrumpCare it is. Donnie says it's great! He's going on the road to attempt to shame Republicans into supporting this. And that will probably work, as we know the right-wing will drop their "principles" in a heart beat if it means perhaps not getting reelected.

 

Who knew health care was so complicated?

 

I did, it only takes a glance at this to know it...

 

Quote:You are absolutely correct that my disappointment is my problem.  I am working some doubles, so will have to get into more detail later, but you seem to be in favor of competition and free market solutions, which is good, and I think you (and jj) are in favor of price transparency (which in my opinion is absolutely essential). We also agree that diet and individual responsibility is important. But just to be clear, I am not sure I have ever gotten an opinion on how procedure and drug costs are more expensive for private insurance here versus other countries, even those with private insurance. Did I miss that somewhere?

 

Drugs are more expensive for 3 main reasons:

 

1. Foreign governments set the price there while the market/manufacturer does here. This reduces cost, but in consequence it also limits availability for drugs they decide not to pay for.

 

2. The FDA oversees patent law for drugs which in turn leads to monopolies and 2a. The FDA is always backlogged in approving generic equivalents which reduce the costs by half.

 

3. Some laws, like requiring patient consent before switching from label to generic, make cost control difficult in practice because pharmacies are forced to fill the more expensive name drug unless the patient agrees otherwise.

 

Procedures (and health care in general) are more expensive because of 1. high Administrative Costs (25% of health care spending), 2. defensive medicine, treatment availability and overutilization (CTs, MRIs, and Mammograms for instance), 3. a higher usage rate for physician specialists over primary care doctors, 4. industry wages, and, of course, 5. drug costs. All of these factors drive prices up before we even consider the other social and environmental factors we discussed in other parts of this thread.

Quote:I did, it only takes a glance at this to know it...

 

 

LOL. Little late now! Why didn't you send this to Donald a year ago. Would have saved a lot of people a lot of grief.

I don't get it. Republicans have been whining and complaining for six years or so. They got Donald elected by crying about Obamacare - although only about 2% of the people complaining actually had personal experience with it. The rest just watched Fox news.

 

And after all this time this is the master plan? All this time to plan behind the scenes and get you ducks in a row in order to hit the ground running and this is it? I mean, if serious Apologists like Jaguar Warrior can't get behind it, you have issues.

 

If Barak Obama had to pick one Republican plan, this might be it. Boy, it's a lot harder to govern than to [BLEEP] and moan, isn't it?

Trump Meets with Conservative Tea Party Critics on Healthcare Replacement

"President Donald Trump and critics of the House plan to replace Obamacare met at the White House on Tuesday, allowing his team to make a case for the bill to skeptical conservative groups.
David McIntosh of Club for Growth, Jim DeMint of Heritage, Tim Phillips of Americans for Prosperity, Adam Brandon of FreedomWorks, Mike Needham of Heritage Action, and Jenny Beth Martin of Tea Party Patriots were all present for the meeting, according to the White House.

 

-------------

 

I am beginning to wonder if Ryan's plan was put forward with the intention to fail. No one likes it. No one will vote on it (in its current form). If it does somehow make it to the Senate, the Democrats will overwhelmingly vote against it (along with a handful of Republicans). By killing the bill voting along partisan lines, Democrats will not only own the failure that is ObamaCare, but also own its potential "fix".

 

“So the easiest thing would be to let it implode in ’17, and believe me we’d get pretty much whatever we want but it would take a long time,” Trump <a class="" href='http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/11/donald-trump-addresses-obamacare-repeal-and-replacement-at-press-conference-in-new-york.html'>said in January</a>."

Quote:LOL. Little late now! Why didn't you send this to Donald a year ago. Would have saved a lot of people a lot of grief.

I'm not here to do those idiots' job for them.

Quote:I love the way the Trump Apologists are trying to call this RyanCare.


Ain't gonna work. You guys own it now. TrumpCare it is. Donnie says it's great! He's going on the road to attempt to shame Republicans into supporting this. And that will probably work, as we know the right-wing will drop their "principles" in a heart beat if it means perhaps not getting reelected.


Who knew health care was so complicated?

#DumpCare is trending.

Quote:Because ObamaCare sucks and doesn't represent what the Democrats actually want? Let the Democrats put forth a single-payer system. There may be parts of their CommieCare that can be integrated with Ryan's CronieCare and the Freedom Caucus' NoCare. It is a prime opportunity time to actually do some bipartisan negotiating.


Or are we so divided now that we can't have a single scintilla of bipartisanship in congress anymore?

If it sucks because Republicans watered it down. Obamacare should have had a public option. Democrats will introduce single payer when the American public has proof this market based healthcare system is a failed experiment. It won't work and it never will work.

Quote:If it sucks because Republicans watered it down. Obamacare should have had a public option. Democrats will introduce single payer when the American public has proof this market based healthcare system is a failed experiment. It won't work and it never will work.

 

1.) republicans had no part in the Obamacare deliberations.  It was passed with 100% democrat votes, I believe for the first time in major entitlement history. 

 

2.) Why is it the people clamoring for a single payer system never reference the VA as the Gold Standard?

 

3.) Failed experiment?  the problems that we are experiencing now are tied to government interference and distortions in the Market Place.  What MARKET BASED failures are your referring to?

 

As for the free Market, we have an emerging business model of health care cooperatives/concierge services that are revolutionizing cost mitigation.  In Wichita Kansas there are plans for 50 dollars per adult 10 per child for unlimited care and doctor visits, 90% discounts on most prescription drugs and coupling that with a catastrophic health care plan.  The Market has solutions, we just need to trust them. 

 

There are three (grossly oversimplifying) things that we need to look at What happens if you get cancer/get hit by a bus.  What happens if you need an MRI/x-ray  and what happens when you have a physical or a routine sick visit for a prescription.  Those three risk pools don't all have to be coupled into the same policy or system of risk management.  We can deal with those risks individually to maximize customer input and mitigate costs.  As market forces drive down prices then it means more people will be able to afford it and it will cost less to help the truly indigent. 

 

IT was interesting watching the Movie STEVE JOBS.  when Jobs first introduced the LISA computer it flopped.  Later when he introduced the IMAC he finally met his lofty sales goals...  The LISA cost 2500 dollars, the IMAC cost 750 dollars while being infinitely more technologically advanced.  WHY?  Because the tech industry had to tie its products to peoples ability to ACTUALLY PAY FOR THINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   The cost curb wouldn't have been trending downward if the government mandated everyone have computer insurance to pay for a 2500 computer to run ipaint.

Who didn't see this coming?


It's funny because you guys are voting yourselves out of affordable healthcare. Solid plan.

Quote:Who didn't see this coming?


It's funny because you guys are voting yourselves out of affordable healthcare. Solid plan.

Fine with me. Republicans are paving the way for single payer. Let them eat cake.

Quote:Who didn't see this coming?


It's funny because you guys are voting yourselves out of affordable healthcare. Solid plan.

Does it bother u how out of touch u are?

Quote:So BiffSkippy what's your opinion on CheetoCare?

 

Well, the downside is that it doesn't seem to have any price transparency, and shifting subsidies to credits doesn't do anything for me, The 30% surcharge will create market instability and is a lame workaround to try for risk sharing. Medicaid seems like a mess, so curtailing it ramps up anger over lack of coverage while not supporting a crappy system (a good thing maybe). I love that it gets rid of the mandate to buy into a crap system. All in all, it seems to gut Obamacare (which is OK with me) and provide nothing decent in return.

 

The really good news is that none of the free market advocates on the board here seem to like it either. I get the sense that although we have different views on ways to solve the problem, we all seem to think that the Republican plan doesn't come anywhere near taking care of things. 

Quote:Drugs are more expensive for 3 main reasons:

 

1. Foreign governments set the price there while the market/manufacturer does here. This reduces cost, but in consequence it also limits availability for drugs they decide not to pay for.

I am not sure how price negotiations limits availability in an absolute manner like a ban, but I could certainly see how it could favor some drugs over others. I am OK with this as long as the drugs are available on the market.


 

2. The FDA oversees patent law for drugs which in turn leads to monopolies and 2a. The FDA is always backlogged in approving generic equivalents which reduce the costs by half.

While the problem might be overstated (see
here
) , I am a huge fan of generics. One concern is where the FDA allows testing to be done and how (like that Indian company that had iffy test procedures). One other huge problem is in biological patent law. That needs to be cleaned up to allow more of a path to generics.


 

3. Some laws, like requiring patient consent before switching from label to generic, make cost control difficult in practice because pharmacies are forced to fill the more expensive name drug unless the patient agrees otherwise.

Seems easily fixable if you shift the cost of the difference to the patient unless a doctor explicitly says the generic doesn't work and backs it up.


 

Procedures (and health care in general) are more expensive because of 1. high Administrative Costs (25% of health care spending), 2. defensive medicine, treatment availability and overutilization (CTs, MRIs, and Mammograms for instance), 3. a higher usage rate for physician specialists over primary care doctors, 4. industry wages, and, of course, 5. drug costs. All of these factors drive prices up before we even consider the other social and environmental factors we discussed in other parts of this thread.

Admin costs are huge and probably the main driver of the difference between us and other major countries. While I don't think defensive medicine is anywhere near as big a deal, we agree it should be addressed, maybe with a waiver of liability like some other countries use if following standard practices in the absence of gross negligence. Not only higher usage but more specialists here, as it is more lucrative than GP. Agree on wages, but in my mind is less important than admin costs and transparency. But none of this addresses the fact that procedures simply
cost more
 here. In my mind this is because of the lack of price transparency and any true free market. I am very interested in the Australian plan mentioned earlier where the government 'keeps private companies honest' by competing with them, but the private market isn't phased out like in a Beveridge plan.