Quote:I agree to a certain extent. It is the individuals fault, but its hard to argue that they haven't been set up to fail. As a culture this generation has been taught that if you are not a Cordon Bleu chef, that cooking is not worth pursuing (and even presented as demeaning sexist task if your a girl). The training is removed from the schools to emphasize 'common core' of English and Math (which is also failing as well ironically). Then we give huge kickbacks for the growth of crops that are already abundant, and companies subsidize their least healthy products because they are addictive.
If you are pro-profit why wouldn't you want the cheapest most addicting thing you can produce? Fats, Sugar, Salt, the body loves these things, throw in some High Fructose Corn Syrup with a higher content of glucose than sugar (hey its cheaper and subsidized why not), and you have a nice cheap product that addicts its users. Keep food prep education limited in schools, and train people to depend on stores to survive. Its a good business scenario, even tho its terrible for the end user.
All that said I support rugged individualism and think that every person is responsible for themselves. But that's not what people are told/taught anymore. They are pretty much trained into dependence on the state. Especially the poorer class. Even with the internet, it is saturated with so much bad information and useless things that the good stuff can get drowned out.
I just can't jump on the black/white its all personal responsibility train. There is such a thing as societal responsibility too, and as a society we have let ourselves down. The idea of taking care of your own used to be part of the identity of the US, and it wasn't political. Teddy Roosevelt (my favorite president) Mr. Rugged individualism himself broke up monopoly's. He didn't let the rich and powerful just decide everything for everyone else. And just to be clear, when I say societal responsibility I am talking about what principles we value, how we treat one another, not some communist collectivism.
We have become a society of convenience and laziness.
Quote:Junkfood is often so cheap because of worker exploitation at the fast food chains. Pay them a proper wage and everyone wins.
Junk food cannot he characterized as a lower-cost substitute for good food. It's a false dichotomy. If the choice is between milk shakes or french fries and nothing, people would be better off eating nothing. If the choice is between drinking regular coke or tap water, people are better off drinking tap water. Good food is in no way unaffordable if you cut out the crap.
There's no excuse for people eating french fries, drinking milk shakes, drinking soft drinks. Those are not substitutes for good food that supposedly costs more. Those do more harm than good. You're better off eating nothing. So no one should say, people eat bad food because there's no good food available. Get on the bus and go to the grocery store. I have no sympathy for people who say, I'm eating the Dairy Queen because Publix is too far away.
Quote:people makes budgets...they buy cheaper things to stay in budget, as discussed earlier, the healthy food is more expensive...make healthy food affordable and people will buy more of it...it's not just people on food stamps either...
roof top gardens work well on a flat roof if you have one and only want a few plants, patio gardens will work unless you want to grow a bunch of different things, backyards are not big enough to grow much of anything anymore, not to mention municipal codes in a lot of places require that your back yard be at least 50% lawn or more
You can actually grow tomatoes on your driveway using self-watering 5-gallon buckets and a soil-less potting mix. No weeding! And in Florida you can use 100% of your front and back yard for gardens. The City of Jacksonville tried to fine Val and Eli a few years ago for their Arlington food forest, but the state law was on their side. It is amazing what can be grown in a small space. My own vegetable garden takes roughly 1/5 of my small back yard. I also have several citrus trees which bear fruit every year with minimal care.
A 48-minute in-depth look at the Jacksonville, Florida city garden of Val and Eli. The pair changed 1/10th of an acre, in three years, from a
“barren, food desert” lawn into a
“paradise” of edible, medicinal, mulch and other useful plants. As an introduction to plants it’s very useful with a tour of many of the 160 different species, as well as some water management techniques. Information-heavy but their clear enthusiasm and passion make up for this.
Quote:Junk food cannot he characterized as a lower-cost substitute for good food. It's a false dichotomy. If the choice is between milk shakes or french fries and nothing, people would be better off eating nothing.
To me that's a bit far. Starvation is the end result of eating nothing, bad food still has caloric value.
But really, wrong_box could live on eggs, beans, vegetables, bread and water for $20 a week and be perfectly fine, he just doesn't want to. And it's ok to not want to, just don't mischaracterize it as "can't."
Quote:try shopping for all natural organic foods low sodium low carbohydrates, no sugar added, low fat foods and then check the prices...People who don't shop for these things have no idea what the cost really is...I make damm good money, but eating a diet consisting of foods as mentioned is expensive as hell
You don't need "all natural, organic" anything, it's a marketing ploy to convince you to spend more money. Low fat is bad for you as is low carb and low sodium, the body needs the right balance of each to be healthy. Added sugar I agree is a problem, but your produce section is full of foods that have only natural sugars. Wanna be healthy and save money? Beans, eggs, vegetables, bread, and water every day.
Quote:I can answer this for you very easily. In short your supposition is incorrect.
Organic crops take fertilizer (foilar fertilizer at a much higher cost), more pest sprays (again usually a higher cost) at higher intervals, more labor, more time in the field and produce a smaller yield.
The cost is actually much higher and is naturally passed on to the end user.
Do you agree that a regression to these farming techniques could lead to wide spread shortages due to lower yields? I read that somewhere but don't know if I buy it.
Quote:what exactly is cheaper healthy food? if healthy food was cheaper we wouldn't be having this discussion
I gave you the list, care to disagree?
I'm glad that we are at least getting to the point that we recognize that health care is much more complicated than lower insurance premiums.
Quote:no chance in hell...try trying to raise a family buying nothing but fat free low sodium organic low carbohydrate low sugar high protein diet
That sounds like an awful diet. Good luck trying to eat a high protein diet with low fat and carbs.
Quote:Do you agree that a regression to these farming techniques could lead to wide spread shortages due to lower yields? I read that somewhere but don't know if I buy it.
It's a lot harder to produce 1:1 when you're organic, but by no means impossible.
It's usually just a diminishing returns hurdle for the grower.
I have absolutely no doubt that poor dietary decisions drive up the price of health care costs. I also agree that better information (yes, even including home economics courses someone earlier mentioned) could help. I am not so sure how to address such challenges. What seems likely to me is that in our current environment, it looks like democrats are going to let republicans 'own' whatever healthcare solutions come about before 2018. With this in mind, what are some solutions that might be politically feasible before then? I will throw out a few. Some of these I am not even sure are possible due to the nature of reconciliation versus more politically difficult passage, but I'll start with two - Get rid of the mandate (get it down to $0 penalty for no coverage). - I think the parliamentarian has said this is doable. Second,
require price transparency for any provider of health care. Pretty sure this would not be covered by reconciliation, but it might be an exception to other policies democrats would vote against.
I like how the republican healthcare solution now is to encourage subsistence farming. In America. In 2017. With the other option being "don't be poor."
You people are unconscionable.
Quote:I have absolutely no doubt that poor dietary decisions drive up the price of health care costs. I also agree that better information (yes, even including home economics courses someone earlier mentioned) could help. I am not so sure how to address such challenges. What seems likely to me is that in our current environment, it looks like democrats are going to let republicans 'own' whatever healthcare solutions come about before 2018. With this in mind, what are some solutions that might be politically feasible before then? I will throw out a few. Some of these I am not even sure are possible due to the nature of reconciliation versus more politically difficult passage, but I'll start with two - Get rid of the mandate (get it down to $0 penalty for no coverage). - I think the parliamentarian has said this is doable. Second,
require price transparency for any provider of health care. Pretty sure this would not be covered by reconciliation, but it might be an exception to other policies democrats would vote against.
What, in your opinion, does price transparency do for the consumer?
Quote:I like how the republican healthcare solution now is to encourage subsistence farming. In America. In 2017. With the other option being "don't be poor."
You people are unconscionable.
Well, see, that's because your perception is wrong. This discussion is about people wrongly claiming that it costs too much to eat healthy even as their poor diets drive up health costs. There are plenty of ways to do it, growing your own being just one. No one is suggesting subsistence farming, most of what's needed is available within a few blocks of most people's homes.
Quote:Well, see, that's because your perception is wrong. This discussion is about people wrongly claiming that it costs too much to eat healthy even as their poor diets drive up health costs. There are plenty of ways to do it, growing your own being just one. No one is suggesting subsistence farming, most of what's needed is available within a few blocks of most people's homes.
Nah, bud, you are the one who missed it. The joke is there is no republican healthcare solution.
Quote:Nah, bud, you are the one who missed it. The joke is there is no republican healthcare solution.
There is, its just the ACA less 1 or 2 line items. But yes, what's there isn't significantly different.
Quote:What, in your opinion, does price transparency do for the consumer?
Let me give you an example. I went to my doctor for my annual physical. Fortunately, I got a clean bill of health. I do have this mole thingy that I would like removed, as it can be a nuisance on the exercise bike. He suggested a skin tag removal. I called my health care plan, and it is not covered. I called the doctor's office back, they couldn't give me a price estimate on the procedure. This type of garbage is ridiculous in my opinion. All of the free market champions talk about competition, letting the market dictate things. If there is no readily available way for the consumer to compare services, there is no true free market.
Quote:Let me give you an example. I went to my doctor for my annual physical. Fortunately, I got a clean bill of health. I do have this mole thingy that I would like removed, as it can be a nuisance on the exercise bike. He suggested a skin tag removal. I called my health care plan, and it is not covered. I called the doctor's office back, they couldn't give me a price estimate on the procedure. This type of garbage is ridiculous in my opinion. All of the free market champions talk about competition, letting the market dictate things. If there is no readily available way for the consumer to compare services, there is no true free market.
Your situation isn't a matter of a free market, it's a matter of contract law applied to the servicer (your insurance) and the client (your employer assuming you have a group plan through them). That price you want is dictated by your doctor's contract with your insurance company, so even if the service isn't covered you sometimes still get the benefit of an insurance discount. As such, your physician probably doesn't know what it's going to cost you until the insurance company denies the claim because they don't always adjudicate claims the same way for the same service. Most insurance contract also mandate that the physician must file the claim even if the service is known to be non-covered so they have a complete medical file on you for actuarial purposes. If your doctor was greedy he'd just charge you his master fee for the procedure, but you might get an insurance discount and then he'd have to give you a refund (or just keep it as many do).
One way around that is for you as the patient to exercise your HIPAA rights and file a Requirement of Non-Disclosure form with your doctor for the service. Doing so overrides the insurance contract and ensures that no claim goes to the insurance, but also means you lose any shot at the discount and have to pay the full rate at the time of service. You can see why something like that would be important in Behavioral Health and other sticky situations. Here's a brief on the process:
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/hipaa/co...osure-rule
Long story short: as long as someone else is paying there isn't a free market.
Quote:Do you agree that a regression to these farming techniques could lead to wide spread shortages due to lower yields? I read that somewhere but don't know if I buy it.
Well the industrial farming system we have currently is depleting all our soils of their nutrients and making it unusable. Phosphorous is running out, and many of our current fertilizer kills soil and takes far more water than natural. The nutritional density of our veggies is down big time compared to 50 years ago.
We will find out how much the older techniques could really support in a while no matter what, cause we can't keep doing what we do. Ironically enough meat is also a big problem cause of how much plants it takes to raise cattle etc. Hence why companies are trying to find ways to substitute and mix in tofu. I always get a kick out of the Drudge articles talking about the 'bleeding' vegetarian burger, but that's what they are trying to do (and I personally wouldn't eat a veggie burger with heme, even as a vegetarian sounds disgusting).
Bryon Lefttown has it right, you got to do what you can to grow. Seeds are one of the best investments you can make for their cost, and I guarantee your vegetables will have much greater nutritional density than those in the supermarket. But if nobody wants to cook, they certainly don't want to farm. Hence, IMO, you shouldn't be living near areas with high government dependance. Cause when the food supply goes away, they get wild. Even the so-called arab spring was really about food. Its one of the last things that people will still actually get up and try and do something about if they don't have it for a couple days.