Quote:If it sucks because Republicans watered it down. Obamacare should have had a public option
.
Democrats will introduce single payer
when the American public has proof this market based healthcare system is a failed experiment. It won't work and it never will work.
Yes it should have. They didn't do it in 2009 with the super-majority. They talked about it all the time and didn't do it. It would be a very simple solution, but they didn't make it happen (proving that the parties are really not that different).
Single payer would kill our research overnight. No need to worry tho, it won't happen either.
One question that hasn't been addressed is will we be required to to use the health care our company provides or will we be able to choose our own? I realize that would mean we we would have to pay the entire premium ourselves, but our companies health care company sucks [BLEEP]...I'm not sure if we are able to get rid of it next year or have to wait for the following year..I can't remember when our Union contract was ratified which included this crappy coverage...
Quote:One question that hasn't been addressed is will we be required to to use the health care our company provides or will we be able to choose our own? I realize that would mean we we would have to pay the entire premium ourselves, but our companies health care company sucks [BAD WORD REMOVED]...I'm not sure if we are able to get rid of it next year or have to wait for the following year..I can't remember when our Union contract was ratified which included this crappy coverage...
You have that option right now and I don't see it changing. Companies shouldn't be required to offer health coverage to begin with.
Quote:You have that option right now and I don't see it changing. Companies shouldn't be required to offer health coverage to begin with.
They call it a "benefit" because the employer pays most of the premium..Employers started making health care part of a company's benefit package so therefor it became the standard
Quote:They call it a "benefit" because the employer pays most of the premium..Employers started making health care part of a company's benefit package so therefor it became the standard
Regarding the part in bold, why is that?
Either way, employers should not be required to offer health insurance, just like they aren't required to offer a retirement savings plan. It all goes back to personal responsibility.
By the same token, having health insurance should not be mandatory by law. It should be a personal choice.
Quote:Regarding the part in bold, why is that?
Either way, employers should not be required to offer health insurance, just like they aren't required to offer a retirement savings plan. It all goes back to personal responsibility.
By the same token, having health insurance should not be mandatory by law. It should be a personal choice.
To attract workers...Benefits are a huge part of why people take jobs, the more/better benefits you have, the better chance you have to retain employees rather than high turn over....
Most people are not self disciplined enough to save for retirement...It would end up costing the government a [BLEEP] pot full of money to support all of those who failed to save enough for retirement...The same goes for health insurance, most people can't afford it without the employer paying their part of it...
Quote:Regarding the part in bold, why is that?
Either way, employers should not be required to offer health insurance, just like they aren't required to offer a retirement savings plan. It all goes back to personal responsibility.
By the same token, having health insurance should not be mandatory by law. It should be a personal choice.
Employers offering health insurance as a benefit started in World War II. Companies were unable to increase wages (wage and price controls) so they offered health care as an enticement.
Having health insurance will/needs to be mandatory. Otherwise you'll never have enough healthy people paying to support the sick people. Which is why we're heading down the road to a single payer system. People who call themselves conservative will kick and scream, but there really is no better system as an alternative, at least that I'm aware of, in the advanced industrialized world. Insurance companies aren't about to cover sick people, old people, and especially old sick people unless they are assured of receiving funds from healthy young people. Or the government.
And that's what Donald Trump, in his incoherent, bumbling way, was getting at in the above 60 minutes quote. He's right.
Quote:To attract workers...Benefits are a huge part of why people take jobs, the more/better benefits you have, the better chance you have to retain employees rather than high turn over....
Most people are not self disciplined enough to save for retirement...It would end up costing the government a [BAD WORD REMOVED] pot full of money to support all of those who failed to save enough for retirement...The same goes for health insurance, most people can't afford it without the employer paying their part of it...
You are mostly right, but the real answer stems from government over-reach way back in the 1940's.
This explains it in simple terms.
You're absolutely right in the fact that most people are not self disciplined enough to save for retirement. However, that's a culture problem, not a government problem.
Quote:Employers offering health insurance as a benefit started in World War II. Companies were unable to increase wages (wage and price controls) so they offered health care as an enticement.
Having health insurance will/needs to be mandatory. Otherwise you'll never have enough healthy people paying to support the sick people. Which is why we're heading down the road to a single payer system. People who call themselves conservative will kick and scream, but there really is no better system as an alternative, at least that I'm aware of, in the advanced industrialized world. Insurance companies aren't about to cover sick people, old people, and especially old sick people unless they are assured of receiving funds from healthy young people. Or the government.
And that's what Donald Trump, in his incoherent, bumbling way, was getting at in the above 60 minutes quote. He's right.
Why does health insurance need to be mandatory? Why should it be up to employers and/or the government to manage/pay for it? Where is personal responsibility in all of this?
The same should be said about Social Security. It's not the government's job to manage and/or provide a retirement plan.
Quote:You are mostly right, but the real answer stems from government over-reach way back in the 1940's. This explains it in simple terms.
You're absolutely right in the fact that most people are not self disciplined enough to save for retirement. However, that's a culture problem, not a government problem.
Once employers started providing health care it became something that will never go away...Health care is much too expensive for people to afford on their own and if employers start removing health care as a benefit, it's going to hurt employee retention...Companies cutting benefits will discourage longevity in the work place...
The culture problem becomes a government problem when the government has to expand public assistance and subsidies to accommodate for uninsured persons with health problems and unable to meet their financial and housing needs...
However, the government confiscating 12% of your income makes it difficult for the average person to afford retirement savings.
Quote:Why does health insurance need to be mandatory? Why should it be up to employers and/or the government to manage/pay for it? Where is personal responsibility in all of this?
The same should be said about Social Security. It's not the government's job to manage and/or provide a retirement plan.
Because people can not afford quality health care out of their own pocket...Have you looked at the policies from the ACA? The deductibles are outrageous and the premiums are NOT affordable
Quote:However, the government confiscating 12% of your income makes it difficult for the average person to afford retirement savings.
another good point...I currently put aside 7% of my gross income per week towards retirement and I've read financial experts are saying everyone should put aside at least 10%...
Quote:Once employers started providing health care it became something that will never go away...Health care is much too expensive for people to afford on their own and if employers start removing health care as a benefit, it's going to hurt employee retention...Companies cutting benefits will discourage longevity in the work place...
The culture problem becomes a government problem when the government has to expand public assistance and subsidies to accommodate for uninsured persons with health problems and unable to meet their financial and housing needs...
Not true. I have had employers give me a choice. Either they pay for health insurance under the plan that they negotiated, or pay me a higher salary. The fact of the matter is, people in general are lazy and want someone else to do their shopping for them.
Case in point. My wife and I both worked for the same company that offered a "health benefit". It was too expensive so we both opted out and got a higher salary. We shopped around and found a plan that suited our needs for less money than it would have cost us by accepting the "health benefit" offered by the employer.
Quote:Not true. I have had employers give me a choice. Either they pay for health insurance under the plan that they negotiated, or pay me a higher salary. The fact of the matter is, people in general are lazy and want someone else to do their shopping for them.
Case in point. My wife and I both worked for the same company that offered a "health benefit". It was too expensive so we both opted out and got a higher salary. We shopped around and found a plan that suited our needs for less money than it would have cost us by accepting the "health benefit" offered by the employer.
and when was that? try that today...$400 a month will get you a $5000 deductible and 20% coinsurance if you're lucky
Quote:Not true. I have had employers give me a choice. Either they pay for health insurance under the plan that they negotiated, or pay me a higher salary. The fact of the matter is, people in general are lazy and want someone else to do their shopping for them.
Case in point. My wife and I both worked for the same company that offered a "health benefit". It was too expensive so we both opted out and got a higher salary. We shopped around and found a plan that suited our needs for less money than it would have cost us by accepting the "health benefit" offered by the employer.
not to mention there are damm few employers who give you that choice...very few people can afford health insurance out of their own pocket
Quote:not to mention there are damm few employers who give you that choice...very few people can afford health insurance out of their own pocket
On the contrary, a vast majority can afford it. Take a look at what people pay for a cell phone and a plan to go along with it. Most of them buy cell phone insurance on top of it. It's all a matter of perspective and priority. Is the newest iPhone with unlimited data and insurance more important than health insurance?
Another case in point. There is a woman that works in our building as a janitor. She has the latest "smart phone" that she is constantly on. She posts regularly to social media sites, plays games, etc. She even bragged about her "unlimited data plan" when she got it. She was diagnosed with breast cancer and was then "complaining" on social media that she couldn't afford insurance and couldn't afford to take time off of work in order to undergo treatment.
The company in turn bent over backwards in order to hold her position while she underwent treatment paid for by medicaid. She was sure to "update her status" on social media and had her "smart phone" with her throughout the treatment process. Meanwhile you (assuming that you actually pay taxes) and I paid for her treatment.
We're not talking about a "young woman" in her 20's or 30's, we're talking about a women in her upper 40's (single mom, etc.). If she's that irresponsible regarding her health, she's probably pretty irresponsible when it comes to retirement.
My point is though, she could have gotten by with a simple phone rather than a "smart phone" and had some money to pay for health insurance. I can't honestly say for sure, but I'll bet that she probably has cable/satellite television in her home as well.
Take a look at your own television/cell phone expense and tell me that it's not enough to pay for health insurance.
Quote:On the contrary, a vast majority can afford it. Take a look at what people pay for a cell phone and a plan to go along with it. Most of them buy cell phone insurance on top of it. It's all a matter of perspective and priority. Is the newest iPhone with unlimited data and insurance more important than health insurance?
Another case in point. There is a woman that works in our building as a janitor. She has the latest "smart phone" that she is constantly on. She posts regularly to social media sites, plays games, etc. She even bragged about her "unlimited data plan" when she got it. She was diagnosed with breast cancer and was then "complaining" on social media that she couldn't afford insurance and couldn't afford to take time off of work in order to undergo treatment.
The company in turn bent over backwards in order to hold her position while she underwent treatment paid for by medicaid. She was sure to "update her status" on social media and had her "smart phone" with her throughout the treatment process. Meanwhile you (assuming that you actually pay taxes) and I paid for her treatment.
We're not talking about a "young woman" in her 20's or 30's, we're talking about a women in her upper 40's (single mom, etc.). If she's that irresponsible regarding her health, she's probably pretty irresponsible when it comes to retirement.
My point is though, she could have gotten by with a simple phone rather than a "smart phone" and had some money to pay for health insurance. I can't honestly say for sure, but I'll bet that she probably has cable/satellite television in her home as well.
Take a look at your own television/cell phone expense and tell me that it's not enough to pay for health insurance.
one month of a cell phone plan is about $40-$50 thats not even comparable to what a health care plan is...I pay 11% of my total premium per year which is $2444 for just my 11%...Thats not even in the same ball park as your example...I don't think you know how expensive health care really is...quality health care plans are pricey unless you want high deductibles and co insurance
No one buys anything other than a smart phone...not sure they even make phones that are not smart phones anymore
just a quick quote:
$351.49 monthly $2500 deductible 30% co insurance $7500 max out of pocket
$129.05 monthly $5000 deductible 20% coinsurance $9000 max out of pocket
there were many more listed but all around the same figures...I did a quick web search and clicked on a link for $9 a week starting price from capitol blue cross and this is what you get from about 10 different companies