Quote:"Fair housing" laws impinge on my private property rights. All you Socialists think you have the right to a say in my property rights, its why we'll never agree. Its fine, go away.
This is like saying the house rake impinges on my gambling rights. If you don't like the way the game is played, don't play.
The lone reason you have given for your personal justification to keep 36,000 people in second class citizen status is that they would have the same protection under the Fair Housing Act as the handicapped, blacks, Muslims, etc. If you truly only care about a FICO score what does it matter? The entire way you have presented this argument is that your rights are taken away by accommodating minorities and demographics which have been historically discriminated against. You would prefer the right to discriminate as you see that as your right. The laws that are decades old say you cannot.
So essentially you wish to keep your thumb on the last minority group in the city without protection because you feel they don't deserve the same rights as others and/or are not discriminated against. Both are false. You are whining about your rights without accepting the terms all landlords must accept when they enter that social contract. Tenants have rights too. Deal with it.
Quote:This is like saying the house rake impinges on my gambling rights. If you don't like the way the game is played, don't play.
The lone reason you have given for your personal justification to keep 36,000 people in second class citizen status is that they would have the same protection under the Fair Housing Act as the handicapped, blacks, Muslims, etc. If you truly only care about a FICO score what does it matter? The entire way you have presented this argument is that your rights are taken away by accommodating minorities and demographics which have been historically discriminated against. You would prefer the right to discriminate as you see that as your right. The laws that are decades old say you cannot.
So essentially you wish to keep your thumb on the last minority group in the city without protection because you feel they don't deserve the same rights as others and/or are not discriminated against. Both are false. You are whining about your rights without accepting the terms all landlords must accept when they enter that social contract. Tenants have rights too. Deal with it.
There you go again. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying and I don't care the
REASON for the discrimination. I'm not racist, a bigot, or anything else you try to paint me to be simply because I don't think I have the right to decide for someone else what they must or must not do with their own property. I told you my standard and still you try to make it about something that it isn't. I don't care about historically discriminated against groups. I don't care about historically powerful groups. And I don't care for one reason, It's not my business to care about their property. And stop with the social contract bull [BLEEP], the law changes all the time. It's not untouchable and just because it's a law doesn't make it moral, ethical, or plain old right.
Quote:Here's a couple of simple questions for you. What is the difference between a gay person and a heterosexual person? What rights do heterosexual people have that gay people don't?
In some states the right to get married or adopt.
Quote:Not true now.
But even before <del>the Supreme Court</del> Kennedy changed the law, gays and straights had exactly the same right, namely to marry a person of the opposite sex who is of age and not closely related.
They are not a federally protected class (yet) which is why most states have had to expand ordinances.
Yes. In Jacksonville, you can be fired, evicted or told to leave a restaurant for being gay. In some states, if you have a gay partner who is severely injured in an accident or worse on their death bed, the hospital will refuse visitation rights because they are not straight. In some cases where there are lesbian couples legally married where one woman is artificially inseminated, hospitals will refuse to put the name of the non-pregnant parent on the birth certificate.
People keep saying these are special privileges. They are equal protections other minorities have.
Quote:They are not a federally protected class (yet) which is why most states have had to expand ordinances.
Yes. In Jacksonville, you can be fired, evicted or told to leave a restaurant for being gay. In some states, if you have a gay partner who is severely injured in an accident or worse on their death bed, the hospital will refuse visitation rights because they are not straight. In some cases where there are lesbian couples legally married where one woman is artificially inseminated, hospitals will refuse to put the name of the non-pregnant parent on the birth certificate.
People keep saying these are special privileges. They are equal protections other minorities have.
The birth certificate only has a conflict of interest when they have a Baby at a private hospital usually a religious hospital that doesn't acknowledge gay unions. That's pretty easy don't go to church hospital and ask them to sign off on lifestyles they have traditional stood against for a century.
As for the restaurant so what? some business owner wants to exclude me for not wearing shoes ok, or because they don't like who I marry so what, I'll do business across the street. Damn it we've gotta stop pretending it's the states job to level the playing field. I support gay marriage, not in the sense that I'll plan on attending one or march down the street in demonstration but in the reality the state has no right to dictate consenting adults partners. For that SAME reason I absolutely 100% oppose creating a federal minority for gays.
Easy for those who will never be persecuted to say such things. I know multiple people who have been high performers but have still been fired simply for being gay. I also know one person who has been illegally evicted multiple times because a family member is gay. I take it you're totally cool with that too. Because it won't directly impact you or someone you know (yet).
Quote:The birth certificate only has a conflict of interest when they have a Baby at a private hospital usually a religious hospital that doesn't acknowledge gay unions. That's pretty easy don't go to church hospital and ask them to sign off on lifestyles they have traditional stood against for a century.
As for the restaurant so what? some business owner wants to exclude me for not wearing shoes ok, or because they don't like who I marry so what, I'll do business across the street. Damn it we've gotta stop pretending it's the states job to level the playing field. I support gay marriage, not in the sense that I'll plan on attending one or march down the street in demonstration but in the reality the state has no right to dictate consenting adults partners. For that SAME reason I absolutely 100% oppose creating a federal minority for gays.
Stop it you racist bigot. Clearly you want to round up teh gayz and put them in camps.
Quote:Easy for those who will never be persecuted to say such things. I know multiple people who have been high performers but have still been fired simply for being gay. I also know one person who has been illegally evicted multiple times because a family member is gay. I take it you're totally cool with that too. Because it won't directly impact you or someone you know (yet).
So go be a high performer somewhere else and let everyone know what happened and why? The business that's dumb enough to fire high performers for such stupid reasons should pay the costs through lost productivity and reputation. To insert legislation into the mix is destructive to both private property rights and the free market. Why is that so difficult for you?
Quote:So go be a high performer somewhere else and let everyone know what happened and why? The business that's dumb enough to fire high performers for such stupid reasons should pay the costs through lost productivity and reputation. To insert legislation into the mix is destructive to both private property rights and the free market. Why is that so difficult for you?
Have you ever been fired or told you have two weeks to get out of your home despite the fact you have been a star performer or paid your bills on time?
Go find a new job or new home is such a simple answer for you? What about lost wages while you find that new job? Most people are living paycheck to paycheck even when they live below their means. What about the costs and stress of having to find a new place and pack on minimal notice?
You don't care because it will never happen to you.
Quote:Have you ever been fired or told you have two weeks to get out of your home despite the fact you have been a star performer or paid your bills on time?
Go find a new job or new home is such a simple answer for you? What about lost wages while you find that new job? Most people are living paycheck to paycheck even when they live below their means. What about the costs and stress of having to find a new place and pack on minimal notice?
You don't care because it will never happen to you.
Yes, I realize there are costs associated with that type of change. As for having to move, the contract you sign should have language in it to protect you from that kind of eviction. As far as homes go in our discussion we're speaking about whether or not you and I agree you should move it to begin with, once we sign the contract then you certainly have the rights afforded to you by that contract including protection from wrongful eviction. I'm not opposed to contracts with that kind of language at all, nor am I in favor of free reign by either party to violate the contract.
As for employment, why would you stay in a place you aren't wanted? Just saying, "Oh, it's too hard to change jobs" isn't a reason. I don't care, as you say, because [BLEEP] them if they do that to me. My success isn't dependent on making other people help me be successful. Quit being a victim and take charge of your own life.
Quote:Yes, I realize there are costs associated with that type of change. As for having to move, the contract you sign should have language in it to protect you from that kind of eviction. As far as homes go in our discussion we're speaking about whether or not you and I agree you should move it to begin with, once we sign the contract then you certainly have the rights afforded to you by that contract including protection from wrongful eviction. I'm not opposed to contracts with that kind of language at all, nor am I in favor of free reign by either party to violate the contract.
As for employment, why would you stay in a place you aren't wanted? Just saying, "Oh, it's too hard to change jobs" isn't a reason. I don't care, as you say, because [BAD WORD REMOVED] them if they do that to me. My success isn't dependent on making other people help me be successful. Quit being a victim and take charge of your own life.
The problem is these people were welcomed and received accolades in some of the cases I know of personally. They were only made aware they weren't wanted when their employer found out they were LGBT. They were not given the choice to stay or receive a severance package.
It's funny you mention language on eviction being in the contract as you have adamantly argued against adding such language through an expanded HRO locally.
The "suck it up" argument rings hollow when posed by someone who isn't impacted by it. There is a real anxiety LGBT people have about revealing their true self to people as anyone can be the person who takes issue with who they are and decides to do things which impact their lives directly in a negative way. No matter how in the closet some live.
It's not that it's so hard to change jobs. It's that these people are blindsided and have to scramble to find work on no notice. That's hard for anyone.
Quote:The problem is these people were welcomed and received accolades in some of the cases I know of personally. They were only made aware they weren't wanted when their employer found out they were LGBT. They were not given the choice to stay or receive a severance package.
It's funny you mention language on eviction being in the contract as you have adamantly argued against adding such language through an expanded HRO locally.
The "suck it up" argument rings hollow when posed by someone who isn't impacted by it. There is a real anxiety LGBT people have about revealing their true self to people as anyone can be the person who takes issue with who they are and decides to do things which impact their lives directly in a negative way. No matter how in the closet some live.
It's not that it's so hard to change jobs. It's that these people are blindsided and have to scramble to find work on no notice. That's hard for anyone.
Again, I agree that it's sad and tough. I don't necessarily agree that there ought to be a law against it.
As for the HRO, you do recognize the difference between a voluntary contract with negotiable language versus a fixed law with criminal and civil penalties, yes?
Quote:Sorry, I'm not buying it. These people have been kicked out of two different rentals, and also fired, just because one is a transgender? If a tenant is quiet, doesn't disturb the other tenants (if any), isn't using the dwelling for criminal activity (e.g. cooking meth) and pays rent on time, 99% of landlords would not evict him. If a person does his job well and is not obnoxious to other employees then the only reason for firing him is if the job was gender-specific (e.g. firing a man who claimed to be a woman in a massage parlor when men were paying to be massaged by a woman).
The odds are huge that there was some other factor than being transgender.
I have no doubt that there are people who really do those things he says, I'm just not in agreement that doing it should be against the law.
Quote:Sorry, I'm not buying it. These people have been kicked out of two different rentals, and also fired, just because one is a transgender? If a tenant is quiet, doesn't disturb the other tenants (if any), isn't using the dwelling for criminal activity (e.g. cooking meth) and pays rent on time, 99% of landlords would not evict him. If a person does his job well and is not obnoxious to other employees then the only reason for firing him is if the job was gender-specific (e.g. firing a man who claimed to be a woman in a massage parlor when men were paying to be massaged by a woman).
The odds are huge that there was some other factor than being transgender.
You don't have to buy it. But it's true. When the lawsuits are settled I'll share all the details I have. This family has gone through pure Hell. They live in a rural area of their state as they where people are not very accepting.
The job my friend was let go of our of state is typically filled by women and she is one (her family member is transgender). I know a person fired from a medical sales device job who was male. Neither was performance based.
Quote:I have no doubt that there are people who really do those things he says, I'm just not in agreement that doing it should be against the law.
So you feel firing and evicting LGBT people solely because they are LGBT should be legal, but you claim to not be bigoted. Interesting.
Quote:So you feel firing and evicting LGBT people solely because they are LGBT should be legal, but you claim to not be bigoted. Interesting.
Evicting...probably not since the lease would have language in it to protect the tenant. I don't favor a law that says the owner cannot do that if the contract permits it.
Firing? Wrongful termination is much more complex than just the niche you're crusading for. Does it make you feel better if I say that I'm ok with an LGBT owner firing a straight white male for no other reason than he's a straight white male? Because I believe that too. Just because freedom has some negative consequences for your special interest group doesn't mean that I'm bigoted against that group.
Quote:You don't have to buy it. But it's true. When the lawsuits are settled I'll share all the details I have. This family has gone through pure Hell. They live in a rural area of their state as they where people are not very accepting.
The job my friend was let go of our of state is typically filled by women and she is one (her family member is transgender). I know a person fired from a medical sales device job who was male. Neither was performance based.
They fired the woman just because someone in her family is transgendered?? Where the heck do they live?