Quote:Which would you rather have for the same draft pick?
1. A quarterback who will be mediocre through his career, and who will be ready to start being mediocre on day one?
2. A quarterback who will be outstanding through his career, but who requires a year of coaching and clipboard holding to reach that point?
If you answered 1, you're a fool. If you answered 2, you understand why a pick can be made on a QB that isn't ready week 1.
It's that simple.
so it's agreed we can let him sit for a year but then starting from day 1 in year 2 he should be winning us games. making an impact, not this well it's his first year starting crap, right?
Quote:I don't know which "one of them" you think I appear to be or how you're drawing either of those conclusions from the +/-50 words I posted disagreeing with TMD's portrayal of past opinions, but I'm neither.
Bizarrely, the website put someone else's name on your quote while I was editing it, which
was someone claiming Bortles should start day one. Now I look back at it, it seems to have corrected itself - you
are the person I was responding to, and
not the person getting it wrong about Bortles.
Quote:Which would you rather have for the same draft pick?
1. A quarterback who will be mediocre through his career, and who will be ready to start being mediocre on day one?
2. A quarterback who will be outstanding through his career, but who requires a year of coaching and clipboard holding to reach that point?
If you answered 1, you're a fool. If you answered 2, you understand why a pick can be made on a QB that isn't ready week 1.
It's that simple.
Are you suggesting that a QB with with all the skills neccessary to be outstanding at the NFL level, will automatically be reduced to mediocre, simply by starting on day one?
Quote:Are you suggesting that a QB with with all the skills neccessary to be outstanding at the NFL level, will automatically be reduced to mediocre, simply by starting on day one?
Um. No? The suggestion was that those would be two
different players. If you demand a player who can start day one, then you'd take the mediocre player over the outstanding player every time. You'd maybe be better than the competition for one year per QB career...
Quote:Um. No? The suggestion was that those would be two different players. If you demand a player who can start day one, then you'd take the mediocre player over the outstanding player every time. You'd maybe be better than the competition for one year per QB career...
There isn't proof that starting a qb early makes them mediocre for their career.
Quote:There isn't proof that starting a qb early makes them mediocre for their career.
<sigh>
Let's try it again.
Let's say there is a player who is now, and will always be, mediocre, they will be mediocre for their career. Nothing to do with when they're started - just that that's their upper limit of talent. You can start them tomorrow, and you'll get mediocrity. You can start them next year and you'll get mediocrity.
Let's say there is another player who is raw and unfinished. They're not ready to start now, but when they
do the sky's the limit - they will improve year on year, and with a little time and a little coaching, they will be a perennial pro-bowler.
Which of these players is better value with
any given draft pick?
Quote:
<sigh>
Let's try it again.
Let's say there is a player who is now, and will always be, mediocre, they will be mediocre for their career. Nothing to do with when they're started - just that that's their upper limit of talent. You can start them tomorrow, and you'll get mediocrity. You can start them next year and you'll get mediocrity.
Let's say there is another player who is raw and unfinished. They're not ready to start now, but when they do the sky's the limit - they will improve year on year, and with a little time and a little coaching, they will be a perennial pro-bowler.
Which of these players is better value with any given draft pick?
Thanks for clearing up the two different players scenario, you never specified that in your original post.
A QB with off-the-chart skills, but who is raw and unfinished, will give you the mediocre level performance on day one and just keep on improving from there. Why would you ever take the other guy under any circumstances?
You do know the QB who starts on Sunday still gets "coached" just as much as the backup throughout the rest of the week, don't you?
Quote:There isn't proof that starting a qb early makes them mediocre for their career.
Starting a raw QB early in their career when they clearly aren't ready is stupid.
Bortles wasn't a 4 year starter, presiding over a pro-style system in college. He was junior eligible QB, and started 2 full seasons and change.
He needs work on fundamentals and thats not going to be fixed in 5 minutes.
Quote:Starting a raw QB early in their career when they clearly aren't ready is stupid.
Bortles wasn't a 4 year starter, presiding over a pro-style system in college. He was junior eligible QB, and started 2 full seasons and change.
He needs work on fundamentals and thats not going to be fixed in 5 minutes.
Fix it in the off season. Coaches coach regardless of whether the player is starting or sitting.
To be clear. I don't care either way. As long as Bortles works out I'm good.
Quote:Thanks for clearing up the two different players scenario, you never specified that in your original post.
A QB with off-the-chart skills, but who is raw and unfinished, will give you the mediocre level performance on day one and just keep on improving from there. Why would you ever take the other guy under any circumstances?
You do know the QB who starts on Sunday still gets "coached" just as much as the backup throughout the rest of the week, don't you?
The last part is my point as well. There isn't anything proving that a qb is ruined for starting when he's not ready. For starters, none of us know when a qb is truly "ready" because we don't see them everyday.
It will be interesting to see how this debate plays out with Bridgewater and Manziel too. I would not be shocked if both do enough between now and week 1 to get the nod.
All these same posts were made when Gabbert was drafted. Identical.
With all due respect, I'll yield to the experts who actually coach in the NFL to make the correct decision on Bortles. In a couple of years we will have our answer whether the correct (if there was a correct) decision was made.. Realistically, no matter how he turns out you can't go back in time to decide if the other option would have been better.
Regards.................the Chiefjag
Quote:It will be interesting to see how this debate plays out with Bridgewater and Manziel too. I would not be shocked if both do enough between now and week 1 to get the nod.
Bridgewater was a 3 year starter.
Manziel only 2, so Manziel would be the closer comparison.
Quote:All these same posts were made when Gabbert was drafted. Identical.
With all due respect, I'll yield to the experts who actually coach in the NFL to make the correct decision on Bortles. In a couple of years we will have our answer whether the correct (if there was a correct) decision was made.. Realistically, no matter how he turns out you can't go back in time to decide if the other option would have been better.
Regards.................the Chiefjag
Ozzie started Flacco right away.
Quote:The last part is my point as well. There isn't anything proving that a qb is ruined for starting when he's not ready. For starters, none of us know when a qb is truly "ready" because we don't see them everyday.
Even the coaching staff, who see him every day, never truly know. Pracrice is great for cleaning up the fundamentals and polishing the mechanics, but it's still just practice. The only way to know how a guy is going to handle pressure and make decisions in a real game is to put him in a real game.
Quote:Ozzie started Flacco right away.
Was Flacco a Junior eligible, raw QB?
Quote:The last part is my point as well. There isn't anything proving that a qb is ruined for starting when he's not ready. For starters, none of us know when a qb is truly "ready" because we don't see them everyday.
I think a QB can be ruined by starting him when the team around him is not ready. You have a combination of his inexperience, plus rookie WRs running wrong routes, plus an offensive line that has yet to gel, and to my mind at that point putting him into the lineup can't help his development at all.
Just my opinion. I'm not the coach.
Quote:He came from Delaware.
I didn't see him ask what school he played for.