Quote:I would not start BB until the offensive line gels and the new receivers are running the right routes. I want to give him the best chance of immediate success by eliminating the kind of distractions that come from wrong routes and bad pass blocking. I think we all bear the mental scars from the Blaine Gabbert experience. I think part of the reason for that abysmal failure was rushing him into starting without adequate support from the play of his offensive line and WRs. I, for one, am sick of seeing our QB and WR have a sideline discussion after an Int or interception.
It depends on the person. I think the bigger issue for Blaine was the flaws in his game. He played mostly out of the shotgun, in a quick, horizontal passing game. He had a very poor feel for the pocket as well, in addition to his bad footwork. Blaine had all of the physical tools, he showed it at the combine, he just didn't know how to use them. A guy like that should never have been thrown into the fire that soon.
Blake has a much better feel for pressure in the pocket though, and he uses his legs to move around both inside and outside of it to extend plays. That's a HUGE difference. Blaine was athletic, but how often did he use it to roll out/step up to avoid pressure? Not very often. And when he actually did do those things, it was when he felt phantom pressure. Bortles is much closer to being a finished product than Blaine was.
Quote:David Carr got sacked one hundred and forty times in his first two seasons. That has to damage the psyche of a young QB.
Actually, since we're on the subject of the Carr family, Derek is a prime example of a guy who shouldn't start right away. That's a guy who is easily rattled by pressure. The only 3 guys who should even be considered are Bortles, Bridgewater, and Manziel.
Quote:If there was anything close to concrete evidence that Carr was bad because he played early, then there would maybe be an argument there. But there are plenty of examples of successful guys who came in and played right away. Roethlisberger wasn't outstanding by any stretch of the imagination his rookie year, but he played in 14 games. Also, if the hope is that we wait until the line is fortified at every position before starting him, we could be waiting a while. It's just not realistic.
Regarding the lack of concrete evidence Carr was bad because he played early...
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/27/bob-mcnair-texans-wont-repeat-mistakes-we-made-with-david-carr'>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/27/bob-mcnair-texans-wont-repeat-mistakes-we-made-with-david-carr</a>
While I would not say McNair is as much of a football authority as a coach, it would not be a stretch to suggest McNair may have consulted with coaches past and present on the subject. It is noteworthy that the Texans have not drafted a
rookie QB highly since Carr, and no rookie has started an early season game for them since Carr.
I find the assertion that Roethlisberger was not outstanding by any stretch his rookie year to be a dubious claim.
His rookie season stats include a 13-0 record as a starter, a 66% completion percentage, and a 17-11
TD to INT ratio. That's good by almost any standard.
I think there is no one size fits all approach to QB development.
The one coach that has been with the same team long enough to develop two highly drafted rookie QBs is Marvin Lewis, who sat Carson Palmer his rookie season while playing Dalton. He successfully used both approaches.
Finally I am unsure if people are concerned that every spot on the O line is fortified as much as the o line needs a sense of continuity. Only Pasztor had anything close to extensive playing time at his current position on the o line in this scheme. If they hope to be effective in blitz pick ups and handling stunts, etc, they need time enough together to do so.
Quote:I find the assertion that Roethlisberger was not outstanding by any stretch his rookie year to be a dubious claim.
His rookie season stats include a 13-0 record as a starter, a 66% completion percentage, and a 17-11
TD to INT ratio. That's good by almost any standard.
They also had the best run game in the league that year with Bettis, Staley and that great O-line pounding on everyone they played.
Quote:When did Henne almost take the dolphins to the playoffs? He honestly never played very well, even when he had a stud like Brandon Marshall at receiver.
2009. Think they were still alive for a playoff spot going into the last week of the season. The team won 7 games both years he started there. Not saying he is Tom Brady but again, if all the pieces fall into place around him I think we'll be in the middle of the playoff chase late in the season.... unless its some fluke year where youve got two 12 win wild card teams.
Quote:The decision to sit Blake has nothing to do with talent. He needs more work on some fundamentals and bad habits in order to realize his full potential as a pro. You don't fix fundamentals and bad habits in a couple of months. It takes time for these things to get ingrained. To put him under fire before the proper skills are ingrained he will begin to fall back on bad habits which will further reinforce the old habits. If you don't give a person the proper environment to overcome bad fundamentals and habits it becomes a one step forward two steps back type of situation. Lack of patience could actually slow his overall development considerably. I think Bradley and Caldwell have enough foresight to remain patient despite possible pressure from short sighted fans and media.
You make it sound like coaching on fundamentals will stop once once he starts. These things can still become ingrained while playing actual games, with the added benefit of allowing him to test his skills in real situations and giving coaches proper film to evaluate rather than practice where he has no fear of being touched.
You can learn the playbook in practice, you can practice pre snap stuff and you can adjust to the speed of the game, but until you actually have those live bullets flying its all artificial.
I'd much rather Blake sit for at least the first half of the season even if Chad is playing poorly.
Caldwell was not in any position to make starting decisions when Peyton or Matt started. There are obvious opportunities for improvement in Blakes footwork and mechanics. It does no good to be wedded to the old mantra "Drafted in top 5. You start" Outdated thinking. If Blake lights it up in campbut has not shown fundamentals improvement, he sits. What is your hurry.
HeadSlap
To me, it's not so much about Blake as it is about the entire offense. If the offensive line seems to be playing well (better than last year) and if our receiving corps is also developing nicely, our running game improved from last year, etc... then I see Blake starting sooner rather than later.
I think it will take at least a few weeks of real games to see whether those areas are actually improved, and if they are - and the QB position can be upgraded with Blake, I think they should go with him.
I am and will always be pro play the rookie. Let them learn by doing.
Manning has said he thought he learned a lot by starting as a rookie and believe rookies should play early. I'm not sure why JW used Elway and Manning to make her point. They both developed just fine.
Quote:Caldwell was not in any position to make starting decisions when Peyton or Matt started. There are obvious opportunities for improvement in Blakes footwork and mechanics. It does no good to be wedded to the old mantra "Drafted in top 5. You start" Outdated thinking. If Blake lights it up in campbut has not shown fundamentals improvement, he sits. What is your hurry.
HeadSlap
The hurry is that a superior QB is likely to win us more games. If that is Bortles and you sit him, you are harming every other player on the team.
Fundamentals don't get ingrained during live action. When the pressure and the need to do things in a hurry is on, people always fall back on what is more familiar which are old techniques and habits. That's just human nature. You have to put a person in an environment that allows them the opportunity to concentrate on doing things the correct way without having to worry about the negative consequences that come with trying to do these things in a real game. Once the season is on for a starter, techniques and fundamentals take a back seat to game planning.
Quote:Fundamentals don't get ingrained during live action. When the pressure and the need to do things in a hurry is on, people always fall back on what is more familiar which are old techniques and habits. That's just human nature. You have to put a person in an environment that allows them the opportunity to concentrate on doing things the correct way without having to worry about the negative consequences that come with trying to do these things in a real game. Once the season is on for a starter, techniques and fundamentals take a back seat to game planning.
How do we know his fundamentals won't revert back next year? I disagree with the final sentence. Priority number 1 this year will be about Bortles and his development. A focus will always be placed on improving his footwork and mechanics whether he starts or not.
Quote:Fundamentals don't get ingrained during live action. When the pressure and the need to do things in a hurry is on, people always fall back on what is more familiar which are old techniques and habits. That's just human nature. You have to put a person in an environment that allows them the opportunity to concentrate on doing things the correct way without having to worry about the negative consequences that come with trying to do these things in a real game. Once the season is on for a starter, techniques and fundamentals take a back seat to game planning.
How do we know his fundamentals won't revert back next year? I disagree with the final sentence. Priority number 1 this year will be about Bortles and his development. A focus will always be placed on improving his footwork and mechanics whether he starts or not.
Quote:Fundamentals don't get ingrained during live action. When the pressure and the need to do things in a hurry is on, people always fall back on what is more familiar which are old techniques and habits. That's just human nature. You have to put a person in an environment that allows them the opportunity to concentrate on doing things the correct way without having to worry about the negative consequences that come with trying to do these things in a real game. Once the season is on for a starter, techniques and fundamentals take a back seat to game planning.
And really learning to play doesn't happen without live action.
You dont know what pressures will result in what fundamentals being dropped and in what way until he goes into the deep water. Game planning may take a bigger chunk of practice time in the regular season, but that's going to happen if he is the backup. If the coaches are doing their jobs right, they wont ignore it and let bad habits form, they will make time to fix holes in his game.
Its all well and good saying let him sit and he will learn all these faultless fundamentals, but it doesn't work like that. If it did, all those mid round career backup QBs who bounce around the league for 10 years would all become superstars at some point. If he is the better QB even with lets say bad footwork, then he is the best chance of winning football games and he offers the best chance of maximizing the development of the whole team, plus he will be learning the things you can only learn from playing real NFL game.
That is the whole point of giving him time to properly develop so he doesn't have the tendency to revert back to old habits. Whether you agree with it or not doesn't change the fact that game planning is the primary focus of the week during the season. That and rest and healing. Working on fundamentals for a starter is an off season priority.
Quote:That is the whole point of giving him time to properly develop so he doesn't have the tendency to revert back to old habits. Whether you agree with it or not doesn't change the fact that game planning is the primary focus of the week during the season. That and rest and healing. Working on fundamentals for a starter is an off season priority.
So whether Bortles plays or sits he won't have any focus on his fundamentals? Then just play him this year and get his feet wet.
I believe the staff will have a great focus on Blake because they know he has to be the future at qb. He will be coached throughout the year.