Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Chandler was always a journeyman QB at best.

 

Kitna was horrible.

 

However, your list of rookie QBs to get PT in their rookie years is impressive.

 

That said, I believe Bortles will play some this year.

 

But let's remember this about Kitna.

 

When Palmer sat behind Kitna in Cincinnati, Kitna had the opportunity to earn Comeback Player of the Year.  And... Palmer benefited greatly from that year of learning.

 

Not saying it will or even should... but if it can happen with Kitna, it could happen with Henne.

 

And... it's important to recognize the growth of the team during the time Palmer's year on the sidelines.  There's no doubt as Bortles seasons, so will the team he's going to inherit in a year.  He'll be stepping into a much better situation and the entire team will be better poised for success together.

 

We aren't making a playoff push this season.  Instead, the plan is to make strides as a team and develop the QB of the future on the bench.  I don't see sacrificing that plan for the sake of trying to add a single win, perhaps two at the most, to be worth blowing up that plan.  They seem to know exactly what they want to accomplish and how they want to accomplish it.

 

I don't see any reason they should feel compelled to ditch that plan at any point of the season.  Not unless Bortles kicks down the door and forces the decision for them (not wins/losses, not fan outcry, but an unbelievable leap in progression by the rookie) similar to what Russel Wilson did.  But, as we know, that kind of situation is about as rare as it gets.

Quote:Imagine you are Cecil Shorts and Henne is playing meh. In practice, Bortles is playing slightly better than meh. That would be 'the minute Bortles is playing better', would it not?


Has he then lost control of the locker room? Or been really smart?

 

If 'meh' has been losing football games, then I imagine yeah, he is going to be a little bit annoyed.

 

Losing the locker room is an extreme, but if you persist putting an inferior player out there, especially when that player is a QB and the careers of just about every other player on the team is closely linked to that guy, players won't be happy about it.

 

That doesn't mean you just bow to them either, but I don't think many people not named Coughlin think alienating 95% of the locker room is a great idea.

 

I'm sure many of us have worked in places where there are people who do not contribute as much as they should, it sucks and drives moral rock bottom. Obviously these are extremes, but nobody can argue that seeing an inferior player leading the team out is going to upset people.

Henne will get injured, Bortles will come in and finish the season 13-0, but will be 1-1 in the playoff. The following season the Jags win the Super Bowl led by Bortles.

If management is competent, and this group appears to be, then there's no negative effect on morale when that vision is well articulated and followed through.  Just like last season when we were sitting on 0-8, the team wasn't down a bit.  They had faith in the plan.  There's no reason to believe that wouldn't hold true with one more season of Henne for better or worse.

Quote:But let's remember this about Kitna.

 

When Palmer sat behind Kitna in Cincinnati, Kitna had the opportunity to earn Comeback Player of the Year.  And... Palmer benefited greatly from that year of learning.

 

Not saying it will or even should... but if it can happen with Kitna, it could happen with Henne.

 

And... it's important to recognize the growth of the team during the time Palmer's year on the sidelines.  There's no doubt as Bortles seasons, so will the team he's going to inherit in a year.  He'll be stepping into a much better situation and the entire team will be better poised for success together.

 

We aren't making a playoff push this season.  Instead, the plan is to make strides as a team and develop the QB of the future on the bench.  I don't see sacrificing that plan for the sake of trying to add a single win, perhaps two at the most, to be worth blowing up that plan.  They seem to know exactly what they want to accomplish and how they want to accomplish it.

 

I don't see any reason they should feel compelled to ditch that plan at any point of the season.  Not unless Bortles kicks down the door and forces the decision for them (not wins/losses, not fan outcry, but an unbelievable leap in progression by the rookie) similar to what Russel Wilson did.  But, as we know, that kind of situation is about as rare as it gets.

 

Reality dictates that we have to temper expectations, but it is wrong to assume that the season is already a foregone conclusion and a surprise year is out of the question.  On any Sunday, right?

 

Maybe we come out of the box cold, and hopes dim.  But how about if we come out hot and surprise a team or two?  Maybe Luck gets hurt?

 

Start 2-0, and play .500 the rest of the season, and maybe you get to the tournament.

 

That said, I think the surprise this year is going to be Henne.  But honestly, I know very little about him.  I saw him string together a nice quarter or two once though.

Quote:Henne will get injured, Bortles will come in and finish the season 13-0, but will be 1-1 in the playoff. The following season the Jags win the Super Bowl led by Bortles.

While anytging is possible, Henne has a history of being pretty durable. If he is replaced it'll most likely be due to Bortles progressing much more quickly than expected.

I'd much rather him go into a situation feeling comfortable than not. If you start him before he's ready he'll know he's not ready.

 

Regards..................the Chiefjag

Quote:If 'meh' has been losing football games, then I imagine yeah, he is going to be a little bit annoyed.


Losing the locker room is an extreme, but if you persist putting an inferior player out there, especially when that player is a QB and the careers of just about every other player on the team is closely linked to that guy, players won't be happy about it.


That doesn't mean you just bow to them either, but I don't think many people not named Coughlin think alienating 95% of the locker room is a great idea.


I'm sure many of us have worked in places where there are people who do not contribute as much as they should, it sucks and drives moral rock bottom. Obviously these are extremes, but nobody can argue that seeing an inferior player leading the team out is going to upset people.

So in other words, you're changing the parameters of a post that I made to ANOTHER POSTER that for some reason you felt compelled to answer.


Not a problem. In YOUR scenario, you've formulated both of your answers where you are correct.


However, they had nothing to do with the statement that I responded to.

Quote:Manning led the league in interceptions, but he came back with a vengeance the next year. Why? Because he's a good quarterback. Bortles is going to make mistakes, a lot of them. But good quarterbacks can put those behind them. Manning did. 

 

 

On the opposite side of the spectrum, whenever Blaine made a mistake, it took the air out of the offense for the rest of the game. He clearly didn't have the mental fortitude to get over it. Based on everything the coaches have said, Bortle's personality is completely the opposite.

From all I've read is that forgetting his last pass is a strength for Blake. His pocket presence is a strength, so if our 0-line is decent he should win the starting job pretty quick possibly in training camp or preseason games.

Quote:The hurry is that a superior QB is likely to win us more games. If that is Bortles and you sit him, you are harming every other player on the team

Our philosophy is not to quantify success with games won but in improvement aka getting better everyday. since individual improvement can be determined regardless of the win/loss column Bortles will not hurt the team by sitting till the o-line is ready.If Henne has 4-5 seconds to pass on most downs then insert blake as soon as he is ready.

I think some people are missing the root of my argument. You should expect Bortles to be playing better than Henne sooner rather than later. If we are only on pace for like 4 or 5 wins, and henne starts the remainder of the year, that would be concerning to me. A qb worthy of going top 10 should be a quick learner, have thick skin, and a short memory.


Based on track record, i very much doubt henne could get us more than 5 or 6 wins. The coaching staff will very likely have a decision to make by the halfway point at the latest.

And as far as waiting for the o-line to be solid? If GB lived by that philosophy, rodgers would have never seen the field. The argument to sit him just to sit him is ludicrous. If he has the playbook down, and is practicing well, then there's no reason not to make the switch.


One season of waiting is also another year we'll have to wait to begin the evaluation process.... If we're still bad in 2 years, we could be in line to draft a new stud qb (a la the roethlisberger situation), but since bortles will only have had 1 year of starting, that won't have been enough time to do any sort of proper eval. From the front office standpoint, buying time makes a good deal of sense. Fans should be a bit skeptical of that though, esp. when henne is the alternative.

Quote:So in other words, you're changing the parameters of a post that I made to ANOTHER POSTER that for some reason you felt compelled to answer.


Not a problem. In YOUR scenario, you've formulated both of your answers where you are correct.


However, they had nothing to do with the statement that I responded to.

 

Yes I changed the parameters, so did you, its a discussion.

Quote:Our philosophy is not to quantify success with games won but in improvement aka getting better everyday. since individual improvement can be determined regardless of the win/loss column Bortles will not hurt the team by sitting till the o-line is ready.If Henne has 4-5 seconds to pass on most downs then insert blake as soon as he is ready.

 

While this year wins and losses may not be the absolute number 1 priority, its plain wrong to suggest its not important.

 

If we wait until everything is perfect before putting Bortles in, he'll probably never play a down.

Quote:I think some people are missing the root of my argument. You should expect Bortles to be playing better than Henne sooner rather than later. If we are only on pace for like 4 or 5 wins, and henne starts the remainder of the year, that would be concerning to me. A qb worthy of going top 10 should be a quick learner, have thick skin, and a short memory.


Based on track record, i very much doubt henne could get us more than 5 or 6 wins. The coaching staff will very likely have a decision to make by the halfway point at the latest.

 

 

Quote:And as far as waiting for the o-line to be solid? If GB lived by that philosophy, rodgers would have never seen the field. The argument to sit him just to sit him is ludicrous. If he has the playbook down, and is practicing well, then there's no reason not to make the switch.


One season of waiting is also another year we'll have to wait to begin the evaluation process.... If we're still bad in 2 years, we could be in line to draft a new stud qb (a la the roethlisberger situation), but since bortles will only have had 1 year of starting, that won't have been enough time to do any sort of proper eval. From the front office standpoint, buying time makes a good deal of sense. Fans should be a bit skeptical of that though, esp. when henne is the alternative.

 

:yes:

 

If Gabbert sat the entire 2011 season, we might still have Gabbert today instead of Bortles (but he'd be good though, right? :whistling: ).

Quote:I think some people are missing the root of my argument. You should expect Bortles to be playing better than Henne sooner rather than later. If we are only on pace for like 4 or 5 wins, and henne starts the remainder of the year, that would be concerning to me. A qb worthy of going top 10 should be a quick learner, have thick skin, and a short memory.


Based on track record, i very much doubt henne could get us more than 5 or 6 wins. The coaching staff will very likely have a decision to make by the halfway point at the latest.

I don't think anyone is saying that Bortles should be playing better than Henne sooner. I think he's the best qb on the roster right now. But that doesn't mean you need to rush him in to play. When he's ready he'll play.


It sounds like you're more frustrated with watching Henne for another game rather than letting the growing process take it's course. He most likely we start sometime this year but I highly doubt it'll be week one.


Henne sucks and I get that. But there is a plan in place. Just stick to the plan and everything will work out

Quote:I don't think anyone is saying that Bortles should be playing better than Henne sooner. I think he's the best qb on the roster right now. But that doesn't mean you need to rush him in to play. When he's ready he'll play.


It sounds like you're more frustrated with watching Henne for another game rather than letting the growing process take it's course. He most likely we start sometime this year but I highly doubt it'll be week one.


Henne sucks and I get that. But there is a plan in place. Just stick to the plan and everything will work out

I totally agree. He'll play when he's ready. My issue is with people suggesting that we just bench him for the year, regardless of wins/losses. If we are only on pace for 4 wins halfway through the season, then it'd be a tough sell to say Bortles would be any worse. The "Chad gives us the best chance to win right now" argument wouldn't hold any water. If this was 4 years ago and Garrard was on the roster, I would maybe be more inclined to just give him a redshirt year. That's how much better Garrard was than Henne.

 

As far as the plan that's in place, last year's plan was to have Gabbert start the entire season, if healthy. That didn't work out so well. They had no choice but to make a change. Circumstances change. People have to understand that this isn't some sort of "set in stone" process. They're not going to have Henne play all year just because they said "that's the plan" in May. Just want to prepare people for that.

Quote: :yes:

 

If Gabbert sat the entire 2011 season, we might still have Gabbert today instead of Bortles (but he'd be good though, right? :whistling: ).

EXACTLY! Someone gets it!

Quote:EXACTLY! Someone gets it!

Looks like that someone is not you! The plan is to let him sit, so let him sit. Not sure if you know this but its a pretty big jump to the next level, and I for one would rather make sure my rookie qb is 100% ready.

Quote: :yes:

 

If Gabbert sat the entire 2011 season, we might still have Gabbert today instead of Bortles (but he'd be good though, right? :whistling: ).

Odds are, no. However that was supposed to be the plan, so who knows!