Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Is this seriously still an issue?

Quote:Is this seriously still an issue?

 

Not to most.

Quote:Draft picks have a value independent of the player they are used to pick. If the Browns take a total bust with Indy's 1st they stole for Trent Richardson, it was still a great trade, they just wasted it.

 

I agree with this. 

 

ANd in reverse, its my opinion that the Jags got less value than they should have for Monroe in the trade. The Jags can hit big time with the 2 draft picks and it's still a bad initial trade - but then it would be 2 great selections with the picks. 

 

Problem is the law of averages certainly isn't on the side of the players chosen with a 4th & 5th round pick amounting to much.  

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Problem is the law of averages certainly isn't on the side of the players chosen with a 4th & 5th round pick amounting to much.  

 

I would be in favor of using those 2 extra picks and possibly even the extra 5th from Thomas to move up into the 3rd for that reason.

Quote:I would be in favor of using those 2 extra picks and possibly even the extra 5th from Thomas to move up into the 3rd for that reason.

 

I guess you'd have to weigh the odds of landing -A- starting caliber player via quantity (the 2 picks) or quality (the 3rd rounder)....

 

If it was a 2nd rounder instead of a 3rd, I might be more quick to side with your idea. But at a 3rd rounder, you might face better odds with the quantity approach. 

Quote:I guess you'd have to weigh the odds of landing -A- starting caliber player via quantity (the 2 picks) or quality (the 3rd rounder)....

 

If it was a 2nd rounder instead of a 3rd, I might be more quick to side with your idea. But at a 3rd rounder, you might face better odds with the quantity approach. 

 

I'm still trying to figure out exactly why you think its a bad trade.  We traded a player almost halfway through the year who probably wasnt going to be resigned anyway for a 4th and a 5th.  You say that we should have gotten better value....from who?  You dont know the ins and outs of what was being offered.  Getting a 4th and a 5th for a player that could possibly walk at the end of the year is pretty good to me (and most of the message board.

 

You continue to throw out assumptions that there should have been a better trade out there...except you dont know if there was or not.  I would assume the Jaguars FO exhausted every opportunity before pulling the trigger.  To think they didnt is dumb.

Quote:I'm still trying to figure out exactly why you think its a bad trade.  We traded a player almost halfway through the year who probably wasnt going to be resigned anyway for a 4th and a 5th.  You say that we should have gotten better value....from who?  You dont know the ins and outs of what was being offered.  Getting a 4th and a 5th for a player that could possibly walk at the end of the year is pretty good to me (and most of the message board.

 

You continue to throw out assumptions that there should have been a better trade out there...except you dont know if there was or not.  I would assume the Jaguars FO exhausted every opportunity before pulling the trigger.  To think they didnt is dumb.

 

IMO, A trade is considered a bad trade when you don't get back proper return in the exchange. You and others keep acting like it was "obvious" or something that the Jags shopped for and got the best offer, which when you look at what we know, doesn't necessarily play out that way. I remember reading articles shortly after the trade when they were interviewing both Ozzie & Caldwell about it and both sides pretty much saying that the deal came together fairly quickly, and I also remember hearing Dave say something like he was NOT shopping Monroe up until the point that he was traded. That right there, combined with the fact that the trade was completed 4 weeks prior to the deadline more than suggests that we did not even get a chance to try and get proper value. It suggests Caldwell took the first low ball offer made his way and ran with it. 

Quote:It suggests Caldwell took the first low ball offer made his way and ran with it. 

 

...in your opinion. Because you have no way of knowing this obviously. Just assumptions on your part.

Quote:That right there, combined with the fact that the trade was completed 4 weeks prior to the deadline more than suggests that we did not even get a chance to try and get proper value. It suggests Caldwell took the first low ball offer made his way and ran with it. 

Calling 31 other teams and saying, "Hey, do you have interest in Eugene Monroe?", doesn't take four weeks, especially if the answer is no. As much as I hated the trade at the time, the Jaguars did get two mid-round selections for a guy who was going to walk in free agency anyway. If Caldwell already knew that the team was going to be active in FA this year, sitting on Monroe in hopes of a third-round compensatory pick would have been foolish. Once the initial rage of, "We just traded the best offensive lineman on our team for a pair of mid-round picks," wore off, "We got two draft picks for a guy we were going to lose at the end of the year anyway," set in. I was at peace with the move then.

Quote:It suggests Caldwell took the first low ball offer made his way and ran with it. 

 

Really?

 

It suggested to me that Caldwell jumped on the offer before Newsome could come to his senses.  Face it man, we got a good deal and it got even better when Baltimore missed the playoffs and those 4th and 5ths got even more valuable.

 

Baltimore was a perfect partner.  Cleveland and Arizona, the other rumored - repeat - rumored suitors weren't in a playoff hunt and it just didn't make sense for a guy that was under contract for 11 games.

 

Had we waited, Monroe would have been even less valuable, because each week that passed took away yet another week of his services.

 

I can't wait till draft day when Caldwell uses these picks to move to the top of the fourth and get a third round talent that slipped.  And it would be sooooooo sweet if we used it on someone Baltimore was coveting.

Quote:I'm still trying to figure out exactly why you think its a bad trade. We traded a player almost halfway through the year who probably wasnt going to be resigned anyway for a 4th and a 5th. You say that we should have gotten better value....from who? You dont know the ins and outs of what was being offered. Getting a 4th and a 5th for a player that could possibly walk at the end of the year is pretty good to me (and most of the message board.


You continue to throw out assumptions that there should have been a better trade out there...except you dont know if there was or not. I would assume the Jaguars FO exhausted every opportunity before pulling the trigger. To think they didnt is dumb.

Quote:And you have the factor in that the team likely would not have gotten a comp pick for Monroe anyway. As they are expected to be players in free agency.

 

 

Good point. 

 

With the Jaguars being at or near the top of the list of available salary cap dollars for 2014,  Dave Caldwell very likely factored what you expressed in the decision to trade Eugene Monroe to Baltimore.   

Quote:Had we waited, Monroe would have been even less valuable, because each week that passed took away yet another week of his services.

This, and even moreso perhaps that every week Monroe was still a Jaguar was one more week he could get hurt. You're obviously not going to bench a starter that you're trying to trade, or you risk killing his trade value. On the flip side, if Monroe tore his ACL in week 3 while Caldwell was holding out for a better deal (which, given the Levi Brown and Bryant McKinnie trades, wasn't there to be had), not only do we not trade Monroe, but we don't even get the benefit of a high-round conditional pick on the deal because he'd likely be on a one-year "prove it" deal somewhere.

 

The more thought I give it, the more I become convinced that trading Monroe when we did for what we did was actually a pretty solid move by Caldwell.

Quote:Is this seriously still an issue?

 

Sad, isn't it.  It was dead.  Until...

Quote:Sad, isn't it.  It was dead.  Until...

 

Until what?

I predict Caldwell to do what he did last year - when he drafted 5 DBs...

 

I think may draft 3-4 offensive linemen this year.

 

Maybe one in the 3rd, 4th and two in the 5th or something along those lines.  

 

Get some big mean guards/centers and then let them battle it out.  

Quote:Until what?

 

Right on cue...

Quote:Is this seriously still an issue?

Looks like a dead horse to me.

Quote:Even in a draft as allegedly as deep as this starters in rounds 4 & 5 is likely a pipe dream. I agree that you should indeed try to draft starters even in rounds that late and not be the kinda GM that just "punts" those picks away (like we have had in the past) ....but that said, its a tall order to expect most 4th or 5th rounders to pan out to that level. 

 

Caldwell sold his 5.0 Mustang for the price of a Focus. 

 

 

Quote:he didn't make a "great" move here. It would have been a "great move" had he gotten proper value for a top 10, 27 year old OLT, - thats more than a 4th & a 5th. 

 

If Monroe signs elsewhere than Baltimore, yes, it will then look "better" for the Jags, but still not at the level of a "great" move. "Good" move at that point? Ok. 

 

 

Quote:They took the first offer they received for Monroe and that was 4 weeks prior to the deadline. They didn't "get what they could" for him, they took the first low ball offer and ran. In the coming weeks the Steelers and Miami OL situations became dire, and the Jags by waiting a few weeks would have then saw a 3 team bidding war for Monroe. Thats the proper way to have handled it. Not jump at the first "feeler" offer. 

Does it seem to anyone else that someone is setting up their Caldwell is terrible speech a year or two down the road?