Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:OK there is one more thing we have not touched on yet: Where would Monroe go if the Ravens don't give him a new contract?

What if we signed him back. Draft picks for nothing would be great! Though it's not happening

Quote:1. But they were wrong in their assessment. They did not make the playoffs, despite adding Monroe and ended up at a sub 0.500 winning percentage once he was added to the roster. Did he really fill that need? How much improvement did Monroe provide to the Baltimore roster?

 

2 and 3 contradict themselves. If Monroe was a proven talent, then why did they need to increase their position to evaluate all of those things that you listed? If he was proven all of that isn't really necessary.

 

4 So they gave up two draft picks just so they could get to the head of the line?!?!?! That seems like a rather steep price doesn't it, especially considering that Monroe has gone on record as saying that there is no "hometown discount"?

1.  GM's, coaches, owners, hall-of-fame caliber former players turned commentator, odds makers, analysts and even message board fans make incorrect assessments occasionally; why do you find it so surprising that the Ravens did it this season?  Is it unrealistic to expect the defending Superbowl champions to at least compete for a playoff spot?  How much he did or did not improve the line is irrelevant.

 

2 & 3. They're not contradictory at all; you just don't understand the player evaluation process.  Before you commit millions to a player, especially at a key position you want to know as much as you possibly can about the guy.  Anybody can watch game tape and assess a player's ability, but still know nothing about him.  That's the difference between 2 and 3. Work ethic and character don't always show up on film.  Why do you think they have interviews at the combine? (Clowney is a great example) 

 

4.  I think we already covered this in #1.  They didn't give up draft picks just to get to the head of the line; they gave them up to get a player whom they hoped would help make a difference in a team anticipated to go to the playoffs.  Head of the line is just a residual fringe benefit of the deal.  Also don't read too much into the "hometown discount" remark.  Quite a bit of posturing goes on this time of year and you can't believe everything you hear.   Sure the money is important, but every player wants to be on a contender.

I saw an article today that listed Monroe as the #3 available free agent in the league. Baltimore has cap issues, but want to resign him. If they cannot find the scratch to do so, they will look really bad. Will be hard as they still want to do deals with Pitta and Daryl Smith too.

Quote:I saw an article today that listed Monroe as the #3 available free agent in the league. Baltimore has cap issues, but want to resign him. If they cannot find the scratch to do so, they will look really bad. Will be hard as they still want to do deals with Pitta and Daryl Smith too.

It's funny that two of the Ravens most important internal free agent targets are former Jaguars.

Quote:What if we signed him back. Draft picks for nothing would be great! Though it's not happening

 

I said that when we traded him!  We could still sign him back!   Of course it won't happen, but still, it showed how little we were actually giving up for those draft picks.  

 

http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/top...entry13731

Quote:1.  GM's, coaches, owners, hall-of-fame caliber former players turned commentator, odds makers, analysts and even message board fans make incorrect assessments occasionally; why do you find it so surprising that the Ravens did it this season?  Is it unrealistic to expect the defending Superbowl champions to at least compete for a playoff spot?  How much he did or did not improve the line is irrelevant.

 

2 & 3. They're not contradictory at all; you just don't understand the player evaluation process.  Before you commit millions to a player, especially at a key position you want to know as much as you possibly can about the guy.  Anybody can watch game tape and assess a player's ability, but still know nothing about him.  That's the difference between 2 and 3. Work ethic and character don't always show up on film.  Why do you think they have interviews at the combine? (Clowney is a great example) 

 

4.  I think we already covered this in #1.  They didn't give up draft picks just to get to the head of the line; they gave them up to get a player whom they hoped would help make a difference in a team anticipated to go to the playoffs.  Head of the line is just a residual fringe benefit of the deal.  Also don't read too much into the "hometown discount" remark.  Quite a bit of posturing goes on this time of year and you can't believe everything you hear.   Sure the money is important, but every player wants to be on a contender.

 

1. I find it surprising not so much that they missed - because like you stated, every team/personnel man/Hall of Famer misses from time to time - but that they could miss and still end up coming up as a winner in this scenario. I base this on my perception that this is a deep draft, maybe one of the deepest ever, and that means that contributing players can be found later in the draft than normal. Baltimore now has two fewer picks in this draft and the return on that was having Monroe for 11 games, six of which they lost. It just seems like a steep price to pay and it's not a gamble that I would have wanted to make.

 

2/3. Is that extra evaluation period worth two players though?! I get it, you want as close of a look as you can possibly get - see? I know how the evaluation process works! - but that's a bit of overkill. I mean, the guy is a Left Tackle and there are some incredible OT's available in this draft. Baltimore now has fewer 'chips' to use in this draft in order to get one, and they still are going to pay more to Monroe, if he signs, than they would to one of those rookies. Granted, now they can kick the tires just as hard as they want on the guy, but it seems as if they overpaid to do so.

 

4. I'm just betting that Monroe is going to sign a monster contract. I'm also willing to bet that his contract is going to be a lot bigger than any contract signed by a OT drafted in this class.

 

I get your point about wanting to have the guy on the roster etc. etc. etc., I just think that they overpaid to do it. Giving away two draft picks in this upcoming class for what they got in return just seems like a bad deal to me.

I would take Monroe back here as a RT.  Joeckel has that LT spot locked down until further notice.  

Quote:It's funny that two of the Ravens most important internal free agent targets are former Jaguars.

Jacksonville North

The thing I didn't like about the trade is that it created another need that I didn't think would be filled with a 4th and 5th round pick. I thought Eugene was one of our few players deserving of an extension and I liked the idea of having an elite tackle combo. With the emergence of Pazstor and the fact that the 4th and 5th rounders might really be like 3rd and 4ths thanks to the depth of this class, I'll admit I was wrong about this trade.

I am hoping Monroe goes elsewhere, so it makes the Jags trade at least save some face. 

 

Either way, given that PFF has now graded Monroe as a top 10 LT the past 3 years and he doesn't miss time to injury, we still should have got more, but Caldwell jumped too fast at the first offer he got. (likely) 

Quote:I am hoping Monroe goes elsewhere, so it makes the Jags trade at least save some face. 

 

Either way, given that PFF has now graded Monroe as a top 10 LT the past 3 years and he doesn't miss time to injury, we still should have got more, but Caldwell jumped too fast at the first offer he got. (likely) 

How do we lose face?  If we resign him, Caldwell looks like a genius.

 

The later into the season, the less the trade would have been worth. I don't think he jumped too quickly and it was probably the only offer on the table.

 

ps  where have you been?

Quote:1. I find it surprising not so much that they missed - because like you stated, every team/personnel man/Hall of Famer misses from time to time - but that they could miss and still end up coming up as a winner in this scenario. I base this on my perception that this is a deep draft, maybe one of the deepest ever, and that means that contributing players can be found later in the draft than normal. Baltimore now has two fewer picks in this draft and the return on that was having Monroe for 11 games, six of which they lost. It just seems like a steep price to pay and it's not a gamble that I would have wanted to make.

 

2/3. Is that extra evaluation period worth two players though?! I get it, you want as close of a look as you can possibly get - see? I know how the evaluation process works! - but that's a bit of overkill. I mean, the guy is a Left Tackle and there are some incredible OT's available in this draft. Baltimore now has fewer 'chips' to use in this draft in order to get one, and they still are going to pay more to Monroe, if he signs, than they would to one of those rookies. Granted, now they can kick the tires just as hard as they want on the guy, but it seems as if they overpaid to do so.

 

4. I'm just betting that Monroe is going to sign a monster contract. I'm also willing to bet that his contract is going to be a lot bigger than any contract signed by a OT drafted in this class.

 

I get your point about wanting to have the guy on the roster etc. etc. etc., I just think that they overpaid to do it. Giving away two draft picks in this upcoming class for what they got in return just seems like a bad deal to me.

You know the old saying about hindsight being 20/20.  Every GM out there has a few deals he'd like to do over.  It does seem like a steep price, but had they made the playoffs and maybe won a game with Monroe contributing, it would look likethe right move. If they resign him without breaking the bank it still looks OK, but if he walks, then not so much.  If he resigns with us, then it's just embarrassing for them.

Quote:How do we lose face?  If we resign him, Caldwell looks like a genius.

 

The later into the season, the less the trade would have been worth. I don't think he jumped too quickly and it was probably the only offer on the table.

 

ps  where have you been?

 

I think its unlikely we re-sign Monroe. I think we've moved on. 

 

I was saying if Monroe signs somewhere other than Baltimore, the Jags will look a little better in that deal as at that point the people claiming that Monroe was essentially a "rental" would have then been proven right. 

 

I was suspended for 30 days after reaching a warning level with that as the punishment. 

Quote:I am hoping Monroe goes elsewhere, so it makes the Jags trade at least save some face. 

 

Either way, given that PFF has now graded Monroe as a top 10 LT the past 3 years and he doesn't miss time to injury, we still should have got more, but Caldwell jumped too fast at the first offer he got. (likely) 

"save some face"????

 

wow....

 

I forgot that the NFL was a popularity contest.

Quote:You know the old saying about hindsight being 20/20.  Every GM out there has a few deals he'd like to do over.  It does seem like a steep price, but had they made the playoffs and maybe won a game with Monroe contributing, it would look likethe right move. If they resign him without breaking the bank it still looks OK, but if he walks, then not so much.  If he resigns with us, then it's just embarrassing for them.

 

But they didn't make the playoffs, so it wasn't the right move. But whatever, life goes on.

 

I don't think there's any way that Monroe signs with Baltimore without the contract being really, really big.

Quote:I am hoping Monroe goes elsewhere, so it makes the Jags trade at least save some face. 

 

Either way, given that PFF has now graded Monroe as a top 10 LT the past 3 years and he doesn't miss time to injury, we still should have got more, but Caldwell jumped too fast at the first offer he got. (likely) 

 

{yawn}

 

Still hanging on to that I see.

Quote:{yawn}

 

Still hanging on to that I see.

 

I guess it would have better if Caldwell didn't trade him and then he walked after the season with nothing to show for it?  I'll take two picks for a guy that it didn't appear the organization had plans of resigning. 

 

Some people apparently think that you can force another team to give up a high pick for a player whose contract is about to expire.

Quote:I would be surprised if the Dolphins don't make a hard push to sign him. Their line is in shambles, definitely the worst situation in the league. Signing Monroe would be a great start for them. I also think Brandon Albert is a free agent as well. 

 

I always thought you were a sorceress...

 

Linkify yo'self!

 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">"We mentioned yesterday that the Dolphins have interest in Chiefs free agent Branden Albert. But that's not the only left tackle on Miami's radar.


<p style="margin-left:40px;">The Dolphins also very much like Eugene Monroe and plan to pursue both Monroe (if he gets to free agency) and Albert, with the hope of landing one of them, according to sources briefed on the team’s thinking. The Dolphins like both, and would be happy to land either
..."

Quote:I guess it would have better if Caldwell didn't trade him and then he walked after the season with nothing to show for it?  I'll take two picks for a guy that it didn't appear the organization had plans of resigning. 

 

Some people apparently think that you can force another team to give up a high pick for a player whose contract is about to expire.

 

I love how people just assume it was a 4th + 5th "or nothing"....lol, as if there was ZERO chance that the Jags could have got more than that with -then- FOUR WEEKS remaining until the trade deadline. 

 

As a matter of fact, a week after the trade, the Dolphins started having their OL issues, as well as aother teams with injuries, - there could have conceivably been more competition driving the price up at that point. 

Quote:I love how people just assume it was a 4th + 5th "or nothing"....lol, as if there was ZERO chance that the Jags could have got more than that with -then- FOUR WEEKS remaining until the trade deadline. 

 

As a matter of fact, a week after the trade, the Dolphins started having their OL issues, as well as aother teams with injuries, - there could have conceivably been more competition driving the price up at that point. 

 

No different than you assuming they could have gotten more had they waited a day, a week or whatever.