Quote:you might confuse him with the balloon payment reference
I think the Ravens probably got a slight edge on negotiating his contract so it wasn't a terrible deal for them
, but we weren't getting a compensatory pick either way so something > nothing, but that's hard for some to comprehend.
Not trying to bash, but this aspect of the argument I don't understand. Why would a team use an asset that is not easily replaced in order to save an asset that is easily replaced? Why spend a draft pick(s) just to be able to save cash? The team makes money and there are multiple ways of making Cap room; there are very few ways however to gain draft picks. The only methods that I am aware of cost a team either other draft picks or players... which are generally acquired via draft picks.
If having Monroe on the roster assisted with the negotiation process, I guess that's nice but do you really want that edge to come at the cost of draft picks? Seems like a poor strategy to me.
Quote:Not trying to bash, but this aspect of the argument I don't understand. Why would a team use an asset that is not easily replaced in order to save an asset that is easily replaced? Why spend a draft pick(s) just to be able to save cash? The team makes money and there are multiple ways of making Cap room; there are very few ways however to gain draft picks. The only methods that I am aware of cost a team either other draft picks or players... which are generally acquired via draft picks.
If having Monroe on the roster assisted with the negotiation process, I guess that's nice but do you really want that edge to come at the cost of draft picks? Seems like a poor strategy to me.
yeah I'm not really sure if it gave them an edge with negotiation or not, but that would've been the only benefit on trading for him, I agree that sending 2 mid round picks probably wasn't worth whatever edge they might've got
either way, it was a solid deal for us, especially now knowing that we wouldn't have got a compensatory pick for him
Quote:yeah I'm not really sure if it gave them an edge with negotiation or not, but that would've been the only benefit on trading for him, I agree that sending 2 mid round picks probably wasn't worth whatever edge they might've got
either way, it was a solid deal for us, especially now knowing that we wouldn't have got a compensatory pick for him
I agree with you regarding Jacksonville's bump on their "ledger" sheet. I like the trade and I think they got good value considering the situation.
Quote:Not trying to bash, but this aspect of the argument I don't understand. Why would a team use an asset that is not easily replaced in order to save an asset that is easily replaced? Why spend a draft pick(s) just to be able to save cash? The team makes money and there are multiple ways of making Cap room; there are very few ways however to gain draft picks. The only methods that I am aware of cost a team either other draft picks or players... which are generally acquired via draft picks.
If having Monroe on the roster assisted with the negotiation process, I guess that's nice but do you really want that edge to come at the cost of draft picks? Seems like a poor strategy to me.
The picks greatly increased the chances of Monroe staying. It gave them a chance to get him familiar with the organization and develop a comfort level.
In the end, Monroe proved not to be a money grubber and showed more loyalty to the ravens than the jags did to him.
Now you should be able to understand why a team will make a trade for a guy in a contract year and it not be a rental.
Plus the ravens got him for 11 games this year and we paid all his bonus money.
Quote:The picks greatly increased the chances of Monroe staying. It gave them a chance to get him familiar with the organization and develop a comfort level.
In the end, Monroe proved not to be a money grubber and showed more loyalty to the ravens than the jags did to him.
Now you should be able to understand why a team will make a trade for a guy in a contract year and it not be a rental.
I understand that you like the trade from Baltimore's perspective, but that doesn't change my stance that I think it's foolish to use a more scarce resource - Draft Picks - in an effort to try and save a less scarce resource - cash - .
Quote:I understand that you like the trade from Baltimore's perspective, but that doesn't change my stance that I think it's foolish to use a more scarce resource - Draft Picks - in an effort to try and save a less scarce resource - cash - .
It's not just the money, they got a premium position player, a high first rd talent, for those two relatively low draft picks.
If someone would offer us a young quality pass rusher for a 4th and a 5th we would jump on that in a heart beat and be thanking our lucky stars. Unfortunately, deals like the ravens got don't happen very often.
Quote:It's not just the money, they got a premium position player, a high first rd talent, for those two relatively low draft picks.
If someone would offer us a young quality pass rusher for a 4th and a 5th we would jump on that in a heart beat and be thanking our lucky stars. Unfortunately, deals like the ravens got don't happen very often.
I don't feel like I can offer anything new to this discussion so I'll just write this next bit and be done with it; for that Fourth and Fifth Round selection, they got eleven games out of a guy that at the time of the trade was playing at a middle of the pack level. Anything beyond those eleven games, and they have to pony up money just like every other team. For me, and the way that I view Draft Picks, I want more than eleven games for my return.
Quote:I don't feel like I can offer anything new to this discussion so I'll just write this next bit and be done with it; for that Fourth and Fifth Round selection, they got eleven games out of a guy that at the time of the trade was playing at a middle of the pack level. Anything beyond those eleven games, and they have to pony up money just like every other team. For me, and the way that I view Draft Picks, I want more than eleven games for my return.
Keep lying to yourself by calling him a middle of the pack player. The ravens were so thrilled by his performance they considered him their number one priority to re-sign in the off season over their own pro bowl players.
Quote:Keep lying to yourself by calling him a middle of the pack player. The ravens were so thrilled by his performance they considered him their number one priority to re-sign in the off season over their own pro bowl players.
Look man, I don't get why you're trying to be so antagonistic over this. I'm not selling you anything and I'm not trying to belittle you. There's no need to imply that I'm dumb. There are
plenty of examples of my stupidity out there if you want to use those.
Quote:It's not just the money, they got a premium position player, a high first rd talent, for those two relatively low draft picks.
If someone would offer us a young quality pass rusher for a 4th and a 5th we would jump on that in a heart beat and be thanking our lucky stars
. Unfortunately, deals like the ravens got don't happen very often.
. Would you make that trade
knowing you were only getting the player for 11 games?
No!
Quote:Look man, I don't get why you're trying to be so antagonistic over this. I'm not selling you anything and I'm not trying to belittle you. There's no need to imply that I'm dumb. There are plenty of examples of my stupidity out there if you want to use those.
Then don't belittle Monroe as a player. He had nothing to do with the bad decisions Caldwell made leading up to this.
Quote:. Would you make that trade knowing you were only getting the player for 11 games? No!
11 games and knowing I had excellent odds of locking that player down for the long term? In a heartbeat. Just like the ravens did it, in a heartbeat.
Quote:11 games and knowing I had excellent odds of locking that player down for the long term? In a heartbeat. Just like the ravens did it, in a heartbeat.
What do you define as "excellent odds" and how would you know you had them, especially in light of his "no hometown discount" statement?
Quote:Then don't belittle Monroe as a player. He had nothing to do with the bad decisions Caldwell made leading up to this.
How is stating that Monroe was playing at a "middle of the pack" level belittling him? Can Monroe play at a high level? Yes, I think that he can as evidenced by his performance versus Jared Allen in the season opener in 2012 but I don't feel like he was lighting the world on fire in 2013.
Quote:What do you define as "excellent odds" and how would you know you had them, especially in light of his "no hometown discount" statement?
Players tend to re-sign with a team that they fit with and feel well with, and his situation with the ravens was exactly that. He has family there, he went to college not far from there, he grew up not far from there, they were the defending super bowl champions. It wasn't rocket science to figure this out.
As far as the "no hometown discount" he actually took a deal that was a few million lower than what other players at his level go for.
Quote:How is stating that Monroe was playing at a "middle of the pack" level belittling him? Can Monroe play at a high level? Yes, I think that he can as evidenced by his performance versus Jared Allen in the season opener in 2012 but I don't feel like he was lighting the world on fire in 2013.
By stating that in that context you are using it as a way to judge his ability and value as a player. Playing middle of the road 4 games into a season in a brand new scheme with the players around him completely lost, should in no way justify his value being a 4th and 5th rd pick nor should it be used in a context as a way to justify that stance.
Quote:Players tend to re-sign with a team that they fit with and feel well with, and his situation with the ravens was exactly that. He has family there, he went to college not far from there, he grew up not far from there, they were the defending super bowl champions. It wasn't rocket science to figure this out.
As far as the "no hometown discount" he actually took a deal that was a few million lower than what other players at his level go for.
Wow! All reasons why Caldwell may have been fairly certain that Monroe would not resign here. Knocks a hole in your bad deal for us argument, doesn't it? :thanks:
For most players the number 1 priority is $$$$$. I was surprised he signed so quickly for that money. I really expected him to get a little more.
Quote:Wow! All reasons why Caldwell may have been fairly certain that Monroe would not resign here. Knocks a hole in your bad deal for us argument, doesn't it? :thanks:
For most players the number 1 priority is $$$$$. I was surprised he signed so quickly for that money. I really expected him to get a little more.
No, because Caldwell drafting Joekel is what made him no longer a fit and doing that in his contract year created the situation that only enabled us to get pennies on the dollar for him.
Rookie mistake by Caldwell by redundant drafting that negated his ability to recoup proper value for our most valuable asset. Monroe was happy here until Caldwell showed him the door when he drafted Joekel.
Like I said, rookie mistake. Hopefully Joekel will turn out to be at least as good as Monroe and Caldwell will make some good picks that will balance out what basically amounted to a swap of the number two overall pick for a 4th and a 5th do to the opportunity cost of passing up on a DE and not keeping Monroe.
Quote:I don't feel like I can offer anything new to this discussion so I'll just write this next bit and be done with it; for that Fourth and Fifth Round selection, they got eleven games out of a guy that at the time of the trade was playing at a middle of the pack level. Anything beyond those eleven games, and they have to pony up money just like every other team. For me, and the way that I view Draft Picks, I want more than eleven games for my return.
Well put.
It's clear we made out on the deal.
All they got was a rental with a big balloon payment at the end, rather than give him back to FA.