Quote:Well, it depends...
Basically, if Monroe walks to, say, the Dolphins for some ridiculous salary then we sort of did alright (although our comp would have been a late comp 3rd rounder at best, so really we probably did better).
If Monroe, however, ends up signing up with the Ravens, then we gave away a young top 10 tackle for a 4th and a 5th because we drafted another one. We lost big.
I would point out that Monroe only returned to form when he went to the Ravens. Not sure he would have graded out top 10 this season if he stayed with us. And something must not have jived with Bradley and Caldwell cause they dumped him fast. So I think we were always planning to let him walk, for whatever reason. Seemed like he soured on J-ville to me anyway.
So there you have the final breakdown:
If he goes to a different team than Baltimore: Win, although not big cause B-more gets that really late 3rd pick possible (basically a high 4th round) Rating: 6/10 (with 0 being Gene Smith losing and 10 being charlie sheen Winning)
If he stays in Baltimore: Lose, we gave away a top 10 tackle who is 26 for a very cheap price, but we still got picks, and it seems like we were gonna let him walk anyway (4/10)
I see it similar to the above breakdown.
Quote:Make up?? :wacko:
I guess theres another "Diesel" who posts here...
Lol, you didnt post my whole response either. Funny how you think you can play the whole board. Everyone has caught on to your schtick.
Fyi, my post said you have played both sides so that further down the road you can say you were right either way. You seemed to have missed that point.
Isn't it almost time for you to get banned again?
Quote:Lol, you didnt post my whole response either. Funny how you think you can play the whole board. Everyone has caught on to your schtick.
Fyi, my post said you have played both sides so that further down the road you can say you were right either way. You seemed to have missed that point.
Isn't it almost time for you to get banned again?
You can put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig.
Only, he doesn't even try the lipstick. He just goes straight denial.
Quote:Lol, you didnt post my whole response either. Funny how you think you can play the whole board. Everyone has caught on to your schtick.
Fyi, my post said you have played both sides so that further down the road you can say you were right either way. You seemed to have missed that point.
Isn't it almost time for you to get banned again?
No, I posted the relevant part where you were clearly falsely accusing me of something. I'm not "playing" anything. Again, I freely admit to being skeptical to both Caldwell and Bradley until they prove successful with successful results. There won't be any "I knew it all along that they were going to be good" from me....And thats exactly what you are accusing.
You just can't/ won't accept the notion that someone doesn't think the Monroe trade that Caldwell made was a good one.
Quote:You can put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig.
Only, he doesn't even try the lipstick. He just goes straight denial.
pirk, gimme a break man....a few posts back in this thread, you posted something to the effect of "this topic was dead, until...." inferring that I'm the only one keeping it alive....the fact that this post was long going for 3 pages before I even entered the convo proves your claim false. I am far from the only one that doesn't see this trade as good compensation.
Apparently seeking $10M a year. He's as good as done with the Ravens.
Quote:Apparently seeking $10M a year. He's as good as done with the Ravens.
I would rather have Michael Bennett for 10 mil a year than Monroe any day of the week
Quote:I would rather have Michael Bennett for 10 mil a year than Monroe any day of the week
10 MIL a year for Michael Bennett??? I guess you like overpaying by upwards of 5 MIL per (approx actual value being around 5 MIL per)
I agree with your quote for sake of discussion, but still....too much money per the production.
Quote:10 MIL a year for Michael Bennett??? I guess you like overpaying by upwards of 5 MIL per (approx actual value being around 5 MIL per)
I agree with your quote for sake of discussion, but still....too much money per the production.
I wouldnt give Bennett that much but if we had to spend 10 mil on Monroe or Bennett. Give me Bennett
Quote:Apparently seeking $10M a year. He's as good as done with the Ravens.
Miami is desperate and has been a poorly run team for years.....they just might pay it.
Makes me wonder what they might have offered for Monroe, once their OL situation began to hit the fan prior to the deadline last year.
Quote:Miami is desperate and has been a poorly run team for years.....they just might pay it.
Makes me wonder what they might have offered for Monroe, once their OL situation began to hit the fan prior to the deadline last year.
They offered a third to KC last year for Albert, so I doubt it would have been more than that.
Quote:Well, it depends...
Basically, if Monroe walks to, say, the Dolphins for some ridiculous salary then we sort of did alright (although our comp would have been a late comp 3rd rounder at best, so really we probably did better).
If Monroe, however, ends up signing up with the Ravens, then we gave away a young top 10 tackle for a 4th and a 5th because we drafted another one. We lost big.
I would point out that Monroe only returned to form when he went to the Ravens. Not sure he would have graded out top 10 this season if he stayed with us. And something must not have jived with Bradley and Caldwell cause they dumped him fast. So I think we were always planning to let him walk, for whatever reason. Seemed like he soured on J-ville to me anyway.
So there you have the final breakdown:
If he goes to a different team than Baltimore: Win, although not big cause B-more gets that really late 3rd pick possible (basically a high 4th round) Rating: 6/10 (with 0 being Gene Smith losing and 10 being charlie sheen Winning)
If he stays in Baltimore: Lose, we gave away a top 10 tackle who is 26 for a very cheap price, but we still got picks, and it seems like we were gonna let him walk anyway (4/10)
Oh and lest I forget, the trade is okay overall, but the fact that Caldwell made it is a totally different issue, and depending how you think could be a problem or good thing. Its a problem if you think Caldwell basically ticked off his good starting LT by drafting another so high when we didn't need one. It might be considered a good thing if you think Caldwell knew we would need a new LT and just grabbed one early (although this is really close to 'In Gene we Trust' kind of mindset). I would rate it as a questionable move, but it seems to be about the only one he has had so far, everything else seems pretty much normal to good.
No, what happens with Monroe from here on out is irrelevant, just like what we do with the draft picks is irrelevant. We are where we are. Monroe is on the open market. He is going to sign with the highest bidder. We traded away an 11-game contract for two draft picks. Monroe wasn't worth franchising, and he would have walked at the end of the season whether we kept him or not. Baltimore has reaped no advantage with Monroe by trading for him, and we have reaped no disadvantage with Monroe by trading him away. We got 2 draft picks for a guy who is now a free agent and would have been a free agent if we had traded him or not.
So, the alternatives available to us were: we keep Monroe for the rest of last season and he goes to the highest bidder at the end of the season, OR, we trade him for two draft picks.
Those who say we should have gotten more in the trade have no evidence to back up that claim.
The results are in. This was a good trade for the Jaguars. There's just no getting around it.
Quote:pirk, gimme a break man....a few posts back in this thread, you posted something to the effect of "this topic was dead, until...." inferring that I'm the only one keeping it alive....the fact that this post was long going for 3 pages before I even entered the convo proves your claim false. I am far from the only one that doesn't see this trade as good compensation.
You really do think everything is about you, don't you?
So, so sad...
Quote:Evidence?
My evidence that he would have walked at the end of the season? Is that what you are asking?
He walked on the Ravens. That's my evidence. He's a free agent, and he's going to the highest bidder. That's my evidence.
The Ravens have enough cap room to sign him. But he wants more money than they are willing to pay him. Therefore, he wants more money than we would have been willing to pay him. And you know what?
If that is not true, then we are about to re-sign him in 3 days.
The man has hit the open market. How much more evidence do we need that he wants to be a free agent and go to the highest bidder?
I mean, if you are seriously asking what evidence I have that he would not have re-signed with us, I don't know what more I can tell you except that he is now a free agent.
Quote:My evidence that he would have walked at the end of the season? Is that what you are asking?
He walked on the Ravens. That's my evidence. He's a free agent, and he's going to the highest bidder. That's my evidence.
The Ravens have enough cap room to sign him. But he wants more money than they are willing to pay him. Therefore, he wants more money than we would have been willing to pay him. And you know what? If that is not true, then we are about to re-sign him in 3 days.
The man has hit the open market. How much more evidence do we need that he wants to be a free agent and go to the highest bidder?
I mean, if you are seriously asking what evidence I have that he would not have re-signed with us, I don't know what more I can tell you except that he is now a free agent.
2+2=17
The fact that he is a FA does not mean 'he was going to walk'. 'He was going to walk' suggests he had no intention of staying here, wouldn't have even negotiated.
You don't know what the Ravens have offered him, you don't know what he would have wanted to stay here, you don't know what the higgest bidder is going to offer for us to know whether he was worth paying or not, you don't know if he will play up to his deal. Pure speculation from the TMD book of assumption, guess work and pixie dust.
We haven't had FA yet. If Monroe signs for a bank breaking deal and we only sign a few mid tier guys, we would have been in line for a bigger comp pick than what we got for Baltimore.
What we do know is that Eugene Monroe has been a very good player for us for a number of years, he was one of the only legit top 10 at his position guy we had. Nobody currently on the team has shown the ability to play at his level. The results are far from in.
Quote:2+2=17
The fact that he is a FA does not mean 'he was going to walk'. 'He was going to walk' suggests he had no intention of staying here, wouldn't have even negotiated.
You don't know what the Ravens have offered him, you don't know what he would have wanted to stay here, you don't know what the higgest bidder is going to offer for us to know whether he was worth paying or not, you don't know if he will play up to his deal. Pure speculation from the TMD book of assumption, guess work and pixie dust.
We haven't had FA yet. If Monroe signs for a bank breaking deal and we only sign a few mid tier guys, we would have been in line for a bigger comp pick than what we got for Baltimore.
What we do know is that Eugene Monroe has been a very good player for us for a number of years, he was one of the only legit top 10 at his position guy we had. Nobody currently on the team has shown the ability to play at his level. The results are far from in.
For gosh sake.
If we had not traded him, we would be in the same position we are in now, except for the two draft picks that we would not have.
The man is a FREE AGENT. If he is willing to sign for what we are willing to offer, then he will sign with us on Tuesday. If we had NOT traded him- EXACT SAME SITUATION.
1) We trade him. He is willing to sign for what we are willing to offer. He signs with us on Tuesday.
2) We don't trade him. He is willing to sign for what we are willing to offer. He signs with us on Tuesday.
EXCEPT WE DON'T HAVE THOSE TWO DRAFT PICKS.
FOR GOSH SAKES, THE MAN IS A FREE AGENT!
That's not 2+2=17. That's 2+2=4.
As for the comp pick, those are awarded for NET free agents lost. Since we are in the process of signing more free agents than we lose, we would not get any comp picks for keeping him and then losing him in free agency.
Quote:/thread
No, no, no. We have to beat on this thing some more. It's the internet, and no one ever admits that they are wrong.
Quote:For gosh sake.
If we had not traded him, we would be in the same position we are in now, except for the two draft picks that we would not have.
The man is a FREE AGENT. If he is willing to sign for what we are willing to offer, then he will sign with us on Tuesday. If we had NOT traded him- EXACT SAME SITUATION.
1) We trade him. He is willing to sign for what we are willing to offer. He signs with us on Tuesday.
2) We don't trade him. He is willing to sign for what we are willing to offer. He signs with us on Tuesday.
EXCEPT WE DON'T HAVE THOSE TWO DRAFT PICKS.
FOR GOSH SAKES, THE MAN IS A FREE AGENT!
That's not 2+2=17. That's 2+2=4.
As for the comp pick, those are awarded for NET free agents lost. Since we are in the process of signing more free agents than we lose, we would not get any comp picks for keeping him and then losing him in free agency.
You keep saying 'the man is a free agent' like it mean something. It means he didn't reach a deal with the Ravens, unless you have an interview with his agent where he says they were determined to hit FA, it means nothing but that, he didn't reach a deal with the Ravens.
If we sign him after trading him, I will build a shrine to Dave Caldwell in my kitchen.
Its not just based on the number of free agents you sign, its based on the value of the contracts. If we kept Monroe til the end, then he signed for the biggest OL deal in history and we only sign a couple of mid tier guys, that will be considered a big net loss and we would have a 3rd rounder in 2015, unless you're from the Gene Smith school of 'a pick today is worth more than a pick tomorrow', that's a worse deal.
You neatly and conveniently ignored the point about him being better than what we currently have, that we dont know the value of the contract he will sign or how he or the players we have to replace him will perform once we have signed it. You're right, people can't admit they are wrong, they can't even admit that we don't know yet, they have to get in a wang measuring contest and claim everything is black and white. Welcome to the internet.
If the following things happen, it will be a good deal, as it stands I don't like it.
Monroe signs somewhere for a stupid money deal that he isn't worth.
We make a big splash in FA negating any comp picks we would have got.
Joeckel matches Monroe's level of play
None of those things have happened yet.