Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(09-17-2024, 08:44 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...4474232143

Yeah. Our RB1 and RB2 are good. But O line. (I know, broken record.)


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I'm just an observer from afar...so I'm going to ask you guys something.  Why are there plays drawn up that require offensive linemen to drop to the ground without seeing a blocking target?  There is a clip/image of the Chicago Bears' oline on a 4th down play where they are less than 5 yards away from scoring a TD, and on 4th and goal it appears like 4 of the offensive linemen completely miss their blocks.  I can understand 1 guy missing a block...or even 2...but how does 80% of an offensive line not put a hat on a defensive player with so little space to travel?

I ask, because I've seen a lot of Jag plays where one or two players simply don't put a hat on a defensive player and I just thought it meant the lineman sucked on that play.    Are there designed plays where blockers just fall down?

I always thought it was the Cam Robinson special. And was exclusive. This seems like Broadway acting. No way that this is intentionally coached to do that

The actually play.

Sometimes I think the NFL has to pay players to block this poorly.  Like its a wrestling script or something.

Warren Sharp on X: "I AM DYING ?? within 1 second the entire DL has blown past the entire OL who is laying face first on the ground 4th & a foot and this is what you do ?? https://t.co/HuN28JQdRt" / X

(09-26-2024, 02:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/dandgriffis/status/1...Ie5OPeqkhg

Atleast were not as bad as the tacks.

Their QB was sacked  8 times last game.

(09-26-2024, 02:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/dandgriffis/status/1...Ie5OPeqkhg

Frustrating. With that being said, this is nothing new for this offense. It's the same story from 2022 and it's the same story from 2023. You have the same QB, same RB, and same offensive masterminds calling the plays. 

I understand, and, again, this is something I pointed out immediately after we lost to Kansas City in the divisional round game back from the 2022 season. It's the fact that, our offensive line is bad, however, they were able to overcome it for the most part to win enough games to get you to that point. 

I said that it wouldn't be good enough moving forward to get us over the hump, to that next level. So, in that regard. Baalke has failed. To a degree. So has this coaching staff and some of the concepts they've tried changing this year or introducing this year. 

Nothing is going to improve this situation. Nobody is coming to save them. The solution and the answers to their problems are already here in Jacksonville. They just have to find it, exploit it and keep doing it until it's time to adjust again.

(09-26-2024, 03:07 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 02:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/dandgriffis/status/1...Ie5OPeqkhg

Frustrating. With that being said, this is nothing new for this offense. It's the same story from 2022 and it's the same story from 2023. You have the same QB, same RB, and same offensive masterminds calling the plays. 

I understand, and, again, this is something I pointed out immediately after we lost to Kansas City in the divisional round game back from the 2022 season. It's the fact that, our offensive line is bad, however, they were able to overcome it for the most part to win enough games to get you to that point. 

I said that it wouldn't be good enough moving forward to get us over the hump, to that next level. So, in that regard. Baalke has failed. To a degree. So has this coaching staff and some of the concepts they've tried changing this year or introducing this year. 

Nothing is going to improve this situation. Nobody is coming to save them. The solution and the answers to their problems are already here in Jacksonville. They just have to find it, exploit it and keep doing it until it's time to adjust again.

bolded: Nitpicking you here, but we had a better run-blocking line in 2022 than we've had since

red: We lost our passing game coordinator after 2022 - but other than that, yes, same guys

(09-26-2024, 02:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/dandgriffis/status/1...Ie5OPeqkhg

I think a few those have been on Trevor. He hasn't been the best at pocket presence, poise or movement this year. Especially against the Bills. He was near elite at those things in past seasons.

(09-26-2024, 03:43 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 02:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/dandgriffis/status/1...Ie5OPeqkhg

I think a few those have been on Trevor. He hasn't been the best at pocket presence, poise or movement this year. Especially against the Bills. He was near elite at those things in past seasons.

2 sacks have been on him according to a few of the pundits breaking it down on twitter FWIW

His pocket issues this season so far seem to be more rooted in flushing the pocket early when he could side-step or step up. 

Which is likely a product of not trusting his protection.

(09-26-2024, 03:27 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 03:07 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Frustrating. With that being said, this is nothing new for this offense. It's the same story from 2022 and it's the same story from 2023. You have the same QB, same RB, and same offensive masterminds calling the plays. 

I understand, and, again, this is something I pointed out immediately after we lost to Kansas City in the divisional round game back from the 2022 season. It's the fact that, our offensive line is bad, however, they were able to overcome it for the most part to win enough games to get you to that point. 

I said that it wouldn't be good enough moving forward to get us over the hump, to that next level. So, in that regard. Baalke has failed. To a degree. So has this coaching staff and some of the concepts they've tried changing this year or introducing this year. 

Nothing is going to improve this situation. Nobody is coming to save them. The solution and the answers to their problems are already here in Jacksonville. They just have to find it, exploit it and keep doing it until it's time to adjust again.

bolded: Nitpicking you here, but we had a better run-blocking line in 2022 than we've had since

red: We lost our passing game coordinator after 2022 - but other than that, yes, same guys

Passing game coordinator is interesting I thought a guy with the name Jim Bob Cooter had to do a good job. He went to the Colts right?

Checked the run block grades on PFF our 2022 run block was 47 and through 4 games we are at 53.2.  I posted somewhere else biggest drop off has been pass blocking. We had a score of 72.8 tied for 10th in 2022, through 4 games we are 27th with a score of 55. Couple disclaimers ... those are PFF scores ... only 4 games so far in 2024 so not a large sample size.

(09-26-2024, 03:53 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 03:27 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]bolded: Nitpicking you here, but we had a better run-blocking line in 2022 than we've had since

red: We lost our passing game coordinator after 2022 - but other than that, yes, same guys

Passing game coordinator is interesting I thought a guy with the name Jim Bob Cooter had to do a good job. He went to the Colts right?

Checked the run block grades on PFF our 2022 run block was 47 and through 4 games we are at 53.2.  I posted somewhere else biggest drop off has been pass blocking. We had a score of 72.8 tied for 10th in 2022, through 4 games we are 27th with a score of 55. Couple disclaimers ... those are PFF scores ... only 4 games so far in 2024 so not a large sample size.

Yeah, I'm not talking about PFF run block grades when I refer to the 2022 line. I'm talking about the effectiveness of our run game. They created more room for the backs despite the grades. 

ETN's yards after contact percentage in 2022 was 54%

His 2024 percentage sits at 80% currently

Robinson is worse than his usual below average self (PFF #59), Cleveland is ok (PFF #32), Morse is actually pretty good (PFF #10), the right side is catastrophically bad (PFF #58 and #70) . I can't imagine that Little, Tugboat and CVL would be much worse at this point.

Here's that that looks like by position in front to Trevor and the RBs:

DAMN - 32 - 10 - OH - SNAP

(09-26-2024, 02:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/dandgriffis/status/1...Ie5OPeqkhg

They were kind to us.

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I wonder if a trade or two could be worked out.

(09-26-2024, 04:24 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 02:35 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/dandgriffis/status/1...Ie5OPeqkhg

They were kind to us.

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I wonder if a trade or two could be worked out.

For who and for what? I always find this idea funny. I really do. How often do we see a big blockbuster trade with offensive lineman mid season in the NFL? Why would ANY team, in a pass happy era at that? Be willing to fork over one of their five starting offensive lineman that are of good enough quality to start at a good level for them?

Again, our solutions are in this building already. Comes from within. Nobody from the outside is coming in here to save us. They have to go back and look at how they managed to overcome this poor line play like they did in 2022 and 2023. Luckily for them, they don't have to play Myles Garrett every week or get into a shootout with an MVP bound QB. 

We all knew the start of this season was going to be difficult. MIA, CLE and BUF. Those are all three play-off teams from last year, regardless of how we see it now, and the QB play, etc. It does not erase the fact that those three teams, they all managed to do something this team couldn't do and this staff couldn't do. CONSECUTIVELY at that. 

Do people not realize that? You guys realize that Miami and Buffalo have been in the play-off's two consecutive years or more, or at least off and on. Including Cleveland off and on. With three different QB's in and out of the line-up, etc. 

Yes. It's frustrating. Maybe time to relax a little bit. Maybe get up in arms again if they [BLEEP] around and lose to teams like Chicago, the tacks and even the clots. I saw a team get it's [BLEEP] kicked by three of the better teams in the AFC overall. That shouldn't be taken for granted. It really shouldn't. Again, this is a subpar team, it's been subpar the last two years. They're not good enough to keep pace with the above average teams yet. 

Falls on Baalke more than anybody for mismanaging salary cap space and draft picks.

What sucks is we have improved our 2 weakest links on offense and now our tackles have been playing much worse so our oline as a whole is pretty much the same. 2 steps forward and 2 steps back. I think they need to just go ahead and put Harrison or Little at LT.

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https://twitter.com/DanDGriffis/status/1...0362217740

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If this staff has no faith in Walker Little they need to put Harrison at LT and Van Lannen at RT

(09-26-2024, 05:09 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]What sucks is we have improved our 2 weakest links on offense and now our tackles have been playing much worse so our oline as a whole is pretty much the same.  2 steps forward and 2 steps back.  I think they need to just go ahead and put Harrison or Little at LT.

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https://twitter.com/DanDGriffis/status/1...0362217740

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If this staff has no faith in Walker Little they need to put Harrison at LT and Van Lannen at RT

I'm assuming you mean Left Guard and Center as the former weak links. 

Which is funny, since you blathered on that we "did nothing" at left guard and you said Ezra Cleveland would not return to the form he displayed in Minnesota. 

He was our highest graded lineman in week 3 BTW.
 68.7 Pass.pro - 74.6 R.Blk

So - yeah - we didn't do nothing - and he is returning to form after a shaky start. 

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Here's a potential bright spot if you like PFF grades: 

Even though Harrison is banged up a bit now - before he came out of the game he looked like he was beginning to get his act back together as well.
 At least in pass pro. 
He graded at 66.7 in pass.pro on the snaps he played.  (he played 66% of the snaps)

(09-26-2024, 05:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 05:09 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]What sucks is we have improved our 2 weakest links on offense and now our tackles have been playing much worse so our oline as a whole is pretty much the same.  2 steps forward and 2 steps back.  I think they need to just go ahead and put Harrison or Little at LT.

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https://twitter.com/DanDGriffis/status/1...0362217740

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If this staff has no faith in Walker Little they need to put Harrison at LT and Van Lannen at RT

I'm assuming you mean Left Guard and Center as the former weak links. 

Which is funny, since you blathered on that we "did nothing" at left guard and you said Ezra Cleveland would not return to the form he displayed in Minnesota. 

He was our highest graded lineman in week 3 BTW.
 68.7 Pass.pro - 74.6 R.Blk

So - yeah - we didn't do nothing - and he is returning to form after a shaky start. 

---

Here's a potential bright spot if you like PFF grades: 

Even though Harrison is banged up a bit now - before he came out of the game he looked like he was beginning to get his act back together as well.
 At least in pass pro. 
He graded at 66.7 in pass.pro on the snaps he played.  (he played 66% of the snaps)

It didnt take much to upgrade those 2 positions.  You think Travon Walker was the right pick and I wanted to go a different route at LG, we shall see how it plays out. We could have done better than Cleveland but its still an upgrade, yes I would have went a different route. One game isnt enough to crown him for me though, he needs to be average at the very least consistently.  Id like to see him play like he did a few years back when he was one of the better guards in the league but he is the 32nd ranked guard, thats not what I want for this team but its better than what we had. I want Cleveland to at the very least live up to his contract. 

 Yeah I watched the game, he looked much better before he got hurt and I posted it in the game day thread but id like to see him at LT over Cam if they have no faith in Little there.  LT is Harrisons more nature position imo and I want Little or Harrison there.

(09-26-2024, 05:56 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 05:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm assuming you mean Left Guard and Center as the former weak links. 

Which is funny, since you blathered on that we "did nothing" at left guard and you said Ezra Cleveland would not return to the form he displayed in Minnesota. 

He was our highest graded lineman in week 3 BTW.
 68.7 Pass.pro - 74.6 R.Blk

So - yeah - we didn't do nothing - and he is returning to form after a shaky start. 

---

Here's a potential bright spot if you like PFF grades: 

Even though Harrison is banged up a bit now - before he came out of the game he looked like he was beginning to get his act back together as well.
 At least in pass pro. 
He graded at 66.7 in pass.pro on the snaps he played.  (he played 66% of the snaps)

It didnt take much to upgrade those 2 positions.  We could have done better than Cleveland but its still an upgrade, yes I would have went a different route. One game isnt enough to crown him for me, he needs to be average at the very least consistently.  Id like to see him play like he did a few years back when he was one of the better guards in the league but he is the 32nd ranked guard, thats not what I want for this team but its better than what we had. I want Cleveland to at the very least live up to his contract. 

 Yeah I watched the game, he looked much better before he got hurt and I posted it in the game day thread but id like to see him at LT over Cam if they have no faith in Little there.  LT is Harrisons more nature position imo and I want Little or Harrison there.

Right, so you were wrong about Ezra Cleveland. 

And if he stays on this course of play he will be "living up to his contract" 
There are 30 interior linemen making more money than Ezra Cleveland in 2024.

(09-26-2024, 06:06 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-26-2024, 05:56 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]It didnt take much to upgrade those 2 positions.  We could have done better than Cleveland but its still an upgrade, yes I would have went a different route. One game isnt enough to crown him for me, he needs to be average at the very least consistently.  Id like to see him play like he did a few years back when he was one of the better guards in the league but he is the 32nd ranked guard, thats not what I want for this team but its better than what we had. I want Cleveland to at the very least live up to his contract. 

 Yeah I watched the game, he looked much better before he got hurt and I posted it in the game day thread but id like to see him at LT over Cam if they have no faith in Little there.  LT is Harrisons more nature position imo and I want Little or Harrison there.

Right, so you were wrong about Ezra Cleveland. 

And if he stays on this course of play he will be "living up to his contract" 
There are 30 interior linemen making more money than Ezra Cleveland in 2024.

How am I wrong about Cleveland lol? I think he can be better than the 32nd ranked guard but if thats what he ends up I was absolutely right.  Thats not what I want for this oline.  You think Walker was the right pick and I didnt like the Cleveland extension because I thought we could do better there.  We shall see how it turns out.  Cleveland has looked Ok so far.   I dont want ok for Trevor.  As far far as what Cleveland is making, you have to look at his guaranteed money and average salary not just what he is making this year but you might want to go check the posts on when we signed him because actually  liked the contract.