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Good lord, JFC jumping in with something asinine.  Shocking.

Quote:Good lord, JFC jumping in with something asinine. Shocking.

Anything else?

Quote:Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I said... derp derp

 

JFC, you literally took his comment and turned it into something else.  He in no way said anything you are talking about....I'm not shocked coming from you that's how you went with it.

Quote:However instant media is a good thing.  It holds people accountable knowing everybody can see what you're doing.

Can it expose some truths, sure! Does it hold people accountable? Hardly. Media is as biased as it gets. It forces knee jerk reactions from the Holiday Inn Express crew and does not usually allow for impartial investigation. What it does do is force divide. The two videos associated are hardly all telling and are just a fraction of the occurrence. While the event does look suspect, I certainly would not bet one way or another at this point.

Quote:JFC, you literally took his comment and turned it into something else.  He in no way said anything you are talking about....I'm not shocked coming from you that's how you went with it.

You and him literally did not understand the point of my response.


African American have had negative interactions with the police going back to the civil rights era when dogs were sic on activists.

Quote:Ok, since FBT appears too busy to answer my question, perhaps you will. What would be needed in this situation for you to come to the conclusion this was racial?

Excuse the terrible pun, but it isn't so black and white. It is difficult to specify for those that don't view life through the lenses of color. For those that don't consistently stir racial divide. I view this only as people in a situation. I've seen both sides of racism and I won't pretend it doesn't exist, but to make that a battle cry for every situation involving different races is just irresponsible.  My life has been in the hands of many people of all races and no one is better than the other. There are good and bad people in all races. We simply do not have all the facts. I guess a similar question could be asked of you...What in this situation leads you to believe this was strictly racial?

First of all, for those people that think 5 shots were "excessive", an officer is trained to shoot to "stop the action".  They don't "shoot to injure" or "shoot to kill".  There are cases where someone can be shot multiple times and still pose a threat.

 

Second.  One of the most important things for a police officer to know for his protection is where a person's hands are.  It doesn't matter if it's a traffic stop, an investigation of a burglary or when struggling while trying to subdue a large suspect.  The location of a person's hands is what is important.  If it's known that there is a deadly weapon within reach of a struggling suspect, and his hand is moving towards that weapon then it justifies the officer to escalate the use of force up to and including deadly force.  It doesn't matter if it's a firearm or a knife.

 

Third.  At close range a knife is almost more deadly of a threat to an officer than a gun.  Kevlar will stop a bullet but it won't stop a knife blade.

 

Fourth.  Cops don't want to shoot people.

 

Finally, the race thing is way off base.

Good post B2hibry.

 

I agree with everything you said.  There are bad people in all walks of life.  Not everyone is out to get you though.  There are accidents, mistakes, and things do happen.  Unless you're perfect, take a step back and think about what officers, politicians, administrators, etc... go through.

Quote:I'm assuming this will not get a answer but do you have info on the Baton Rouge PD Disciplinary history? I wasn't able to find anything.

Search Baton Rouge PD Disciplinary and there is plenty of cases relating to sexual assault, racist texts, excessive force, hit and run, DWI, etc.

Quote:It's pretty clear, again, that we cannot trust the government. Why do you turn this around on your fellow citizens? Do you think giving up our right to weapons would stop cops from shooting people?

I think there are many government agencies that need oversight. I think a healthy distrust of bureaucracy is healthy. The beauty of our system, in theory, is that we are able to hold our government accountable. The problem I have is when that healthy distrust becomes a wish to dismantle the entire government because you distrust bureaucracy.


Let me start by saying I'm not turning around anything on anybody.


I was pointing out how absurd your comment was, by pointing out the reciprocal point. To paraphrase what you said...


You said something to the effect that carrying a gun would have made those pigs think twice about the injustice they were about to perpetrate. Did you not say this? Did I misunderstand your point?


I don't believe in guns. But I'm also realistic that the 2nd amendment won't be overturned in my lifetime--if ever. Regulating guns, believe it or not, is something the vast majority of citizens are willing to discuss-- there is a compromise, but the nra and other organizations that want to maintain the gridlock stoke the unjustified fear that we are coming for your guns. WE AREN'T COMING FOR YOUR GUNS.


I think your post points out this fear. You try to justify your gun ownership by saying that a gun will protect you if the police decide one day to treat you the way a black person is treated by pigs. As we have seen over and over again, by the time you realize your civil liberties-and probably your life- are coming under attack it's too late.


Your gun isn't gonna save you from tyranny, not in this modern age.


Revolution in the modern world will follow Dr King's model of civil disobedience and organization. Not on George Washington's model of revolutionary war. The gap between the arsenal civilians have versus the arsenal the government has is far too wide.


Keep your guns, enjoy them. If they give you a false sense of security that you can protect yourself from governmental tranny, fine.


But know that your security behind your arsenal is an illusion.


However, if the stuff really hits the fan, websites like this one and others where citizens can organize and create change though protests, civil disobedience, and a unified voting block is the only way to turn things around.

Quote:Excuse the terrible pun, but it isn't so black and white. It is difficult to specify for those that don't view life through the lenses of color. For those that don't consistently stir racial divide. I view this only as people in a situation. I've seen both sides of racism and I won't pretend it doesn't exist, but to make that a battle cry for every situation involving different races is just irresponsible. My life has been in the hands of many people of all races and no one is better than the other. There are good and bad people in all races. We simply do not have all the facts. I guess a similar question could be asked of you...What in this situation leads you to believe this was strictly racial?

I never claimed it was racial, but the assumption was made that it wasn't racial. So I wanted to know what would need to be present in this situation to deem it racial. You say you won't pretend it doesn't exist, can you name the last time there was police involvement where it was? Much of what you said doesn't apply to anything I've said in this thread. What was the purpose in volunteering this information? Serious question. Lastly, you mentioned you've seen racism on both sides, are you aware of what the definition of racism is?

Quote:Good post B2hibry.


I agree with everything you said. There are bad people in all walks of life. Not everyone is out to get you though. There are accidents, mistakes, and things do happen. Unless you're perfect, take a step back and think about what officers, politicians, administrators, etc... go through.

Ok I agree on all accounts. Would you say all racism is overt? If not, could you provide an example? If yes, what has lead you to believe that?

Quote:I think there are many government agencies that need oversight. I think a healthy distrust of bureaucracy is healthy. The beauty of our system, in theory, is that we are able to hold our government accountable. The problem I have is when that healthy distrust becomes a wish to dismantle the entire government because you distrust bureaucracy.


Let me start by saying I'm not turning around anything on anybody.


I was pointing out how absurd your comment was, by pointing out the reciprocal point. To paraphrase what you said...


You said something to the effect that carrying a gun would have made those pigs think twice about the injustice they were about to perpetrate. Did you not say this? Did I misunderstand your point?

 

I don't think I said that. I also don't want to dismantle the entire government, I want it to be smaller and less intrusive in the lives of ordinary people.

 

 

Quote:I don't believe in guns. But I'm also realistic that the 2nd amendment won't be overturned in my lifetime--if ever. Regulating guns, believe it or not, is something the vast majority of citizens are willing to discuss-- there is a compromise, but the nra and other organizations that want to maintain the gridlock stoke the unjustified fear that we are coming for your guns. WE AREN'T COMING FOR YOUR GUNS.


I think your post points out this fear. You try to justify your gun ownership by saying that a gun will protect you if the police decide one day to treat you the way a black person is treated by pigs. As we have seen over and over again, by the time you realize your civil liberties-and probably your life- are coming under attack it's too late.


Your gun isn't gonna save you from tyranny, not in this modern age.


Revolution in the modern world will follow Dr King's model of civil disobedience and organization. Not on George Washington's model of revolutionary war. The gap between the arsenal civilians have versus the arsenal the government has is far too wide.


Keep your guns, enjoy them. If they give you a false sense of security that you can protect yourself from governmental tranny, fine.


But know that your security behind your arsenal is an illusion.


However, if the stuff really hits the fan, websites like this one and others where citizens can organize and create change though protests, civil disobedience, and a unified voting block is the only way to turn things around.

 

If the stuff hits the fan you won't be getting a vote on the outcome; I, and those around me, will at least have a small say in the matter. Your thoughts on the matter are naive at best, endangering yourself at worst. This is a world of violence and it always will be so long as there is life. You can prepare for it or ignore it, but it will always be there.

Quote:I never claimed it was racial, but the assumption was made that it wasn't racial. So I wanted to know what would need to be present in this situation to deem it racial. You say you won't pretend it doesn't exist, can you name the last time there was police involvement where it was? Much of what you said doesn't apply to anything I've said in this thread. What was the purpose in volunteering this information? Serious question. Lastly, you mentioned you've seen racism on both sides, are you aware of what the definition of racism is?

Sure I'll entertain ya... Do you have information regarding the responding cops personal beliefs? Do have have information showing discipline for such racial acts? Do you have information regarding any prior contact of the responding officers and the deceased that were racial in nature? My point was that there is no information that you or I currently have that prove this is racially driven. It is irresponsible for folks to interject this perceived racism without facts. This needs to stop being the go to rally cry.

 

The ones I can think of off the top of my head are the San Francisco Police Department Officer and the murder of the two NYPD cops killed while sitting in their car.

 

I'll repeat, no race is "superior" or "inferior" to another and they all have good and bad. I'll also state that no one race has the monopoly on racism or discrimination.

Quote:Ok I agree on all accounts. Would you say all racism is overt? If not, could you provide an example? If yes, what has lead you to believe that?

Of course not. Social organization exemplifies this through institutional racism. The system of practices has created this since the first human interaction. Look no further than the prison system, health care, affirmative action, etc. No matter what race you are, there will be policy favoring one group over another.

Quote:Sure I'll entertain ya... Do you have information regarding the responding cops personal beliefs? Do have have information showing discipline for such racial acts? Do you have information regarding any prior contact of the responding officers and the deceased that were racial in nature? My point was that there is no information that you or I currently have that prove this is racially driven. It is irresponsible for folks to interject this perceived racism without facts. This needs to stop being the go to rally cry.


The ones I can think of off the top of my head are the San Francisco Police Department Officer and the murder of the two NYPD cops killed while sitting in there cars.


I'll repeat, no race is "superior" or "inferior" to another and they all have good and bad. I'll also state that no one race has the monopoly on racism or discrimination.

Again, I never said it was racially motivated. It was said to not be racially motivated. Isn't it just as irresponsible, as you put it, to deem it not racially motivated without having the answers you just posed, or is it ok to say it's not racially motivated without in fact knowing one way or the other? If you could expound on the SFPD officer example I'm not sure what you're referring to. As for the NYPD officers, you're saying they were killed because the two perps felt their race was superior?


It's not entertainment. I don't get to have this honest of discourse about the subject. Really trying to understand your thought process.

Quote:Right. Specifically for you, what type of evidence would you need to see at minimum.

 

Evidence that these shootings are motivated specifically by race would be helpful. Just because the shooter and the victim are of different race doesn't make it a racially motivated shooting.  If that was the case, then when a black cop shoots a white person, can the same be said? 

 

If someone is a racist, there will be evidence to support that which will eventually come out.  If the Justice Department can find even a crumb linking this to some racial animus, they will string these cops up and make an example of them.

Quote:Evidence that these shootings are motivated specifically by race would be helpful. Just because the shooter and the victim are of different race doesn't make it a racially motivated shooting. If that was the case, then when a black cop shoots a white person, can the same be said?


If someone is a racist, there will be evidence to support that which will eventually come out. If the Justice Department can find even a crumb linking this to some racial animus, they will string these cops up and make an example of them.

Thanks for replying. Again, I never asserted this was racially motivated, I simply wanted to know how those who deemed it not being racially motivated knew in fact.


Are you saying all people who are racist having evidence proving they are?


Also, it seems by your wording you've deemed this incident to not be RM, is that what you mean to convey?

Quote:Again, I never said it was racially motivated. It was said to not be racially motivated. Isn't it just as irresponsible, as you put it, to deem it not racially motivated without having the answers you just posed, or is it ok to say it's not racially motivated without in fact knowing one way or the other? If you could expound on the SFPD officer example I'm not sure what you're referring to. As for the NYPD officers, you're saying they were killed because the two perps felt their race was superior?


It's not entertainment. I don't get to have this honest of discourse about the subject. Really trying to understand your thought process.

LOL, I feel like I'm doing your Ethics homework! What is your point in all this back and forth? I don't mind having a discussion, but the middle of the road, round and round isn't getting anywhere.

 

Show me where the media or any protest group comes out screaming, "this was not racially motivated"! It is irresponsible for anyone to put any identifier or judgement out without facts.

 

I'm not going to type it all out here. Look up racist, homophobic San Fran police officer. As far as the NYPD killing, as it turns out I was incorrect in my recall of the situation. Turns out it was a revenge killing and can be thrown in the group discriminatory category, not racism. I'm sure the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) may have some information you would be interested in. They break down excessive force and police contact homicides by race and any other category you find interesting.