Quote:However instant media is a good thing. It holds people accountable knowing everybody can see what you're doing.
It also sensationalizes things beyond what it should in many instances.
Ferguson, MO made celebrities out of the people who thought it would be wise to allow outside agitators to intermingle with the local protestors to burn down the town. The Justice Department swept in and did a massive investigation, and at the end of it all, the cop who did the shooting was exonerated, although his life was pretty much ruined at that point. All because the media decided this was going to be ground zero for a new kind of civil rights movement centered on police abusing their power, and only doing it aimed at minorities.
The media has followed every possible shooting that they think they can use to stoke that new civil rights movement only to have almost every instance backfire on them in one way or another. The few exceptions where there was legitimate abuse of power were dealt with swiftly. The incidents where a minority cop did the same thing to a white perp fell on deaf ears because it didn't fit the narrative. Only white cops abuse their positions as far as the media and those who get all of their information from them are concerned.
The reality is that there are bad cops everywhere, covering pretty much every ethnic and racial background, and ever gender. The only ones that get any real publicity are the ones who happen to be white and who are accused of victimizing a minority. Then, once the flames have been fanned sufficiently enough where you've got people going around targeting the police in general, the very people who have been attacking police from the start suddenly go mute.
Things had started to calm down, so I guess the BLM folks felt like they needed a reboot to get their followers fired up again, so once again, we're going right back down the same path that started in Ferguson. We'll see if there was any intent on the parts of the cops involved to take out a perp just because they were black. No doubt, there will be intense investigation into every aspect of their lives, and once they and their families have been sufficiently terrorized by the protest class, we'll see a report from the Justice Department saying they acted within the parameters of their roles as law enforcement officers. Of course, that report won't bring as much fanfare as the start of this process has, but by then the rent-a-mobs will be moved on to the next "cause" they can get paid to support so that they can get their faces on one of the 24/7 media outlets.
Every situation is different...but the bottom line is in most cases, if the suspect would just comply with the officer's directions, they would still be alive to commit another crime...another day.
Quote:LOL, I feel like I'm doing your Ethics homework! What is your point in all this back and forth? I don't mind having a discussion, but the middle of the road, round and round isn't getting anywhere.
Show me where the media or any protest group comes out screaming, "this was not racially motivated"! It is irresponsible for anyone to put any identifier or judgement out without facts.
I'm not going to type it all out here. Look up racist, homophobic San Fran police officer. As far as the NYPD killing, as it turns out I was incorrect in my recall of the situation. Turns out it was a revenge killing and can be thrown in the group discriminatory category, not racism. I'm sure the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) may have some information you would be interested in. They break down excessive force and police contact homicides by race and any other category you find interesting.
I was trying my best not to be offensive. These aren't questions I get to ask daily. I want to get a handle on what you think is actually racist. You've again mentioned the media's actions and others outside yourself, but I'm looking into what you think is actually racist. That may be why it seems we are going around and around. Based on your example, the only time you've seen something as racist is when it was overt. However you noted above institutional racism (prison system), blacks being disproportionately incarcerated, I figured that would be one of your examples. It was not.
The sentiment seems, stop crying racism all the time. Ok that's fair, but if you only look for overt signs of racism, you're really not all that concerned with how prevalent it is or isn't. The ppl who are too quick to scream racism may be creating a schism but those who act like racism is all racial epithets and white hats are helping to maintain that divide.
Quote:I think you bring up a good point. Cops are human to. They have to make split second decision based on information available as they arrive on scene. Further adding to the pressure is when an individual is non compliant and dangerous. The public is too quick to judge based on race and limited information instead of actual circumstance. Instant media has made everybody an expert.
This all happened in the span of what? 2 minutes, if that? Snap decisions are part of the training for police officers. From what I can see, they followed protocol by trying to deploy non-lethal methods to contain the suspect. That failed, and ultimately an armed perp wound up being shot by police. That's what we actually know. We don't know the motivations or the mindset of the officers, especially with regard to race. But, that's always the first conclusion the knee jerk reactionaries jump to in situations like this. If that's indeed the case, it will come out. We don't have all of the facts.
Quote:Excuse the terrible pun, but it isn't so black and white. It is difficult to specify for those that don't view life through the lenses of color. For those that don't consistently stir racial divide. I view this only as people in a situation. I've seen both sides of racism and I won't pretend it doesn't exist, but to make that a battle cry for every situation involving different races is just irresponsible. My life has been in the hands of many people of all races and no one is better than the other. There are good and bad people in all races. We simply do not have all the facts. I guess a similar question could be asked of you...What in this situation leads you to believe this was strictly racial?
Agreed. No race has a monopoly on good or bad. No race has an exception when it comes to being racist or bigoted either.
Quote:First of all, for those people that think 5 shots were "excessive", an officer is trained to shoot to "stop the action". They don't "shoot to injure" or "shoot to kill". There are cases where someone can be shot multiple times and still pose a threat.
Second. One of the most important things for a police officer to know for his protection is where a person's hands are. It doesn't matter if it's a traffic stop, an investigation of a burglary or when struggling while trying to subdue a large suspect. The location of a person's hands is what is important. If it's known that there is a deadly weapon within reach of a struggling suspect, and his hand is moving towards that weapon then it justifies the officer to escalate the use of force up to and including deadly force. It doesn't matter if it's a firearm or a knife.
Third. At close range a knife is almost more deadly of a threat to an officer than a gun. Kevlar will stop a bullet but it won't stop a knife blade.
Fourth. Cops don't want to shoot people.
Finally, the race thing is way off base.
Thank you.
Quote:Thanks for replying. Again, I never asserted this was racially motivated, I simply wanted to know how those who deemed it not being racially motivated knew in fact.
Are you saying all people who are racist having evidence proving they are?
Also, it seems by your wording you've deemed this incident to not be RM, is that what you mean to convey?
You're trying to twist my words here. I've never said it's NOT racially motivated. What I've said is that all of this will come out in the investigation that is already underway with the Justice Department. I've said it more than once in this discussion.
In most instances, if someone is a racist, they've expressed their views to others either in person, or in some nuanced way over social media or some other outlet. It's not a guarantee, but in many instances, they can be identified by their activities or those with whom they associate. If there's even the slightest hint they're racists, the JD will no doubt pounce upon that information.
Quote:The notion that being a gun owner is some sort of protection from government tyranny via pigs or ant other corrupt government entity is a fallacy. But nra sheeple are under the allusion that a gun creates your freedom.
I think the last two days and few years, for that matter, would tell you differently. In my humble estimation.
I'm a gun owner and an NRA member and I don't think this way at all. My guns are here to protect me in the event someone breaks into my home and I have to defend myself. They can take whatever they want, but threaten my life or that of my husband and there will be a problem. My husband carries for the same reason. I would but the only handgun I like is a .45 and it's not easy to conceal those and I'm not going to open carry that thing.
Quote:I was trying my best not to be offensive. These aren't questions I get to ask daily. I want to get a handle on what you think is actually racist. You've again mentioned the media's actions and others outside yourself, but I'm looking into what you think is actually racist. That may be why it seems we are going around and around. Based on your example, the only time you've seen something as racist is when it was overt. However you noted above institutional racism (prison system), blacks being disproportionately incarcerated, I figured that would be one of your examples. It was not.
The sentiment seems, stop crying racism all the time. Ok that's fair, but if you only look for overt signs of racism, you're really not all that concerned with how prevalent it is or isn't. The ppl who are too quick to scream racism may be creating a schism but those who act like racism is all racial epithets and white hats are helping to maintain that divide.
What I find offensive is your responses that are beyond inquisitive and more so putting things in your own context without comprehension. I can't continue this discussion if you ignore my previous responses and then attempt to twist words. I've given you the definition of racism, examples, and whether or not it I believe it exists beyond overt. Once again, what is your point? Do you believe all people are racist until proven otherwise? Guilty until proven innocent? You believe there are covert signs the cops are dirty?
Quote:I'm a gun owner and an NRA member and I don't think this way at all. My guns are here to protect me in the event someone breaks into my home and I have to defend myself. They can take whatever they want, but threaten my life or that of my husband and there will be a problem. My husband carries for the same reason. I would but the only handgun I like is a .45 and it's not easy to conceal those and I'm not going to open carry that thing.
My guns don't "create" my freedom either. I'm well aware of that, as is just about every law abiding gun owner and NRA member. To imply otherwise, well, that's just TAM and his spoon fed talking points. I envision TAM being a lot like the reporter who claimed to suffer from PTSD after shooting, of all things, an AR15. He claimed it was so loud it sounded like a bazooka being fired, and the kick was so violent it nearly dislocated his shoulder. That's TAM. Anyone who owns or has fired an AR15 knows what a joke that is.
My guns protect me and my family. Plain and simple. At a Constitutional level, yes, they can certainly be used to stave off an oppressive government. But, realistically, I don't think most gun owners are anticipating a great civil war. Sure, there are kooks, just like there are kooks on the left who burn down neighborhoods, loot, and riot. Does that mean all leftists do that? Most people buy guns for protection and sport. They're not stocking up for the zombie apocalypse or some militia activity.
People like TAM write the articles questioning why anyone would have (GASP!) 500 rounds of ammunition on them at any time? I regularly take at least that much to the range with me. Even more if I'm bringing my wife, daughter, or friends. You can burn through 500 rounds even with a semi-automatic in a matter of 2 hours. That reminds me. I need to stock up on ammo again. Word to the wise, don't buy it online. Those purchases have to be reported, so the feds know how much and what type of ammo you purchased. If you buy from a shop, the shop owner doesn't have to report on individual sales. They only report what they've purchased from suppliers.
Quote:We should just jump to conclusion that all police are pigs based on a video that doesn't start until after the shooting took place.
God knows we don't want to try to get all of the facts before deciding it was a "pig" just abusing his power.
Based on what we have seen, and on the claims of the girlfriend, the cop just opened fire while the guy was reaching for his wallet. Perhaps that's the case. We'll see.
It doesn't matter what comes out, the naysayers will see what they want. Im watching CNN right now and all white cops are being called Racist. I think what the uproar should be is In Chicago where African-Americans are killing each other constantly and its not even talked about.
Quote:This all happened in the span of what? 2 minutes, if that? Snap decisions are part of the training for police officers. From what I can see, they followed protocol by trying to deploy non-lethal methods to contain the suspect. That failed, and ultimately an armed perp wound up being shot by police. That's what we actually know. We don't know the motivations or the mindset of the officers, especially with regard to race. But, that's always the first conclusion the knee jerk reactionaries jump to in situations like this. If that's indeed the case, it will come out. We don't have all of the facts.
Agreed. No race has a monopoly on good or bad. No race has an exception when it comes to being racist or bigoted either.
Thank you.
You're trying to twist my words here. I've never said it's NOT racially motivated. What I've said is that all of this will come out in the investigation that is already underway with the Justice Department. I've said it more than once in this discussion.
In most instances, if someone is a racist, they've expressed their views to others either in person, or in some nuanced way over social media or some other outlet. It's not a guarantee, but in many instances, they can be identified by their activities or those with whom they associate. If there's even the slightest hint they're racists, the JD will no doubt pounce upon that information.
Is it really twisting if I ask you a question for clarity? If anything, I'm trying to make sure I understand you. This isn't about agendas. I can't have this discussion at work without someone feeling uncomfortable. I can't even ask my neighbor, but more than likely they feel the way you do and I'm trying to understand. You do want me to see where you're coming from, right?
Quote:What I find offensive is your responses that are beyond inquisitive and more so putting things in your own context without comprehension. I can't continue this discussion if you ignore my previous responses and then attempt to twist words. I've given you the definition of racism, examples, and whether or not it I believe it exists beyond overt. Once again, what is your point? Do you believe all people are racist until proven otherwise? Guilty until proven innocent? You believe there are covert signs the cops are dirty?
Ok, let's just remember, the conversation between the two of us began with you making an assumption on me ("I'm going to go out on a limb here...").
I'm certain your intent wasn't to be offensive.
Quote:It doesn't matter what comes out, the naysayers will see what they want. Im watching CNN right now and all white cops are being called Racist. I think what the uproar should be is In Chicago where African-Americans are killing each other constantly and its not even talked about.
All white cops aren't racist just like all African Americans aren't thugs. But you have to admit there's a disconnect somewhere.
Quote:First of all, for those people that think 5 shots were "excessive", an officer is trained to shoot to "stop the action". They don't "shoot to injure" or "shoot to kill". There are cases where someone can be shot multiple times and still pose a threat.
Then first of all, based on this... You are training people that go into the police force to be pigs. I'm sorry, but that's the bottom line. To Stop Action based on your defending these pigs means that the action to stop is the life of that "perp". Point blank shot to the head, but you need 4 more shots to stop the action????? Are you numb to reality???
JIB, you're a rare breed. What's best is that you are also a minority breed that is being left behind as rationality is finally gaining ground again.
If putting 5 or 6 shots point blank is justifiable in your mind, you are advocating a
pig force, not a
peacekeeping force. I'm not down with that.
With all due respect to you and the
pigs that are trained this way. It's not 'murica to have officers that kill first and then worry about their paid admin leave... Sorry bro. But you're on the wrong side of this.
With all due respect to you. And no respect due to the
PIGS
Quote:All white cops aren't racist just like all African Americans aren't thugs. But you have to admit there's a disconnect somewhere.
And to piggyback if I may, black ppl are up in arms about Chicago. If you already think the media is subjective with what it reports, doesn't it stand to reason they wouldn't report the efforts black ppl have made there?
It is true that many police departments reject anyone with too high an IQ and some specifically screen out candidates with logic and compassion. If you understand this your encounters with police can be uneventful. No need to waste time citing statutes or explaining that you were trying to HELP the bleeding lady. Just be docile as they arrest you and hope the officer isn't the kind who is trained to escalate. It will hopefully get straightened out in a courtroom.
Quote:It is true that many police departments reject anyone with too high an IQ and some specifically screen out candidates with logic and compassion. If you understand this your encounters with police can be uneventful. No need to waste time citing statutes or explaining that you were trying to HELP the bleeding lady. Just be docile as they arrest you and hope the officer isn't the kind who is trained to escalate. It will hopefully get straightened out in a courtroom.
Suppose you don't have money for court?
Quote:It doesn't matter what comes out, the naysayers will see what they want. Im watching CNN right now and all white cops are being called Racist. I think what the uproar should be is In Chicago where African-Americans are killing each other constantly and its not even talked about.
The uproar is over rouge cops black, white, etc continuously not being held accountable for their actions.
One of my Caucasian co workers who posted a "black lives matter" status is being killed on Facebook. She is being called a [BLEEP] lover, etc.
There are people in Chicago protesting against black on black violence as I type this.
Quote:Every situation is different...but the bottom line is in most cases, if the suspect would just comply with the officer's directions, they would still be alive to commit another crime...another day.
Doesn't work that way in real life.
Quote:Search Baton Rouge PD Disciplinary and there is plenty of cases relating to sexual assault, racist texts, excessive force, hit and run, DWI, etc.
So far I only found a couple reports, nothing concrete.