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Keynesian Economics is central planning.  It doesn't work.   It benefits only the planners and those closely connected to them.  It always ends in collapse or war. 

Quote:Keynesian Economics also dictates that you reduce spending in growth periods and deity knows that [BAD WORD REMOVED] never happens.

I'm with you, man... and thus our corporate and government overlords us in a continuous state of boom and bust cycles.


The fact that there are fiscal malfeasance being conducted by all members of Washington dc doesn't escape this particular liberal.


My solutions to the problem and the scope of how I see the problem obviously differs from you.

I don't know if Donald 'Daffy Duck' Trump will do the things he claims but he surely was the better candidate than the other GOP politicians running & a billion times better than Crooked Hilary or Communist Bernie. 

Quote:Keynesian Economics is central planning. It doesn't work. It benefits only the planners and those closely connected to them. It always ends in collapse or war.

Ehhh... I wouldn't say it's central planning...


It's at a federal level, that's for sure. But just by definition, it's macro economics.


Also, I don't think that the concept of taxing and spending, per se, result in war.


Now spending trillions on a national industrial war machine will result in the desire to play with the toys your purchasing...

Quote:...  wow...  Just wow...  Sometimes I don't know what to say to you.  

 

Have you not noticed that there has been job growth for a while now...  I think I heard its been 72 straight months of job growth...  You're gonna need to back track and clarify this statement.

 

As for the taxes issue, there are many factors that help push an economy.  Taxes definatley are a factor.  But as I think Eric and some of the other posters recognize, it's not the primary driver of job creation and job destruction.  

 

Again, it's been proven that the tax cuts we've seen and kept since W. Bush have not gone to creating more jobs.  The savings on taxes have by these huge corporations and the all time high profits that they are experiencing are going to pay off the stock holders, and to buy back common shares.

 

Hmm... I just came across this interesting tidbit earlier today.

Quote:<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-idUSKCN0Y31LN'>Hmm... I just came across this interesting tidbit earlier today.</a>

True story-- last summer I was in Albany on a business trip, I was staying in a hotel with the Verizon hr rep that was negotiating with the unions.


The dude pretty much already knew back then that there was gonna be a strike. The Corporation just decided that the concessions the union was making wasn't enough....


Verizon's earnings per share in 2015 was 4.37. They had almost 4% of growth, and their net profit was 18 billion dollars.

Quote:True story-- last summer I was in Albany on a business trip, I was staying in a hotel with the Verizon hr rep that was negotiating with the unions.


The dude pretty much already knew back then that there was gonna be a strike. The Corporation just decided that the concessions the union was making wasn't enough....


Verizon's earnings per share in 2015 was 4.37. They had almost 4% of growth, and their net profit was 18 billion dollars.

 

And?

Quote:And?

And?


I'm sharing an interesting story with the jungle.


Sheesh... you may want to look into adding more bran in your diet.

Quote:And?


I'm sharing an interesting story with the jungle.


Sheesh... you may want to look into adding more bran in your diet.

 

Interesting story.  I just looked at Verizon's stock, and it seems to be doing just fine.  It does seem that the generous offer of a 7.5% wage increase as well as company matching employee retirement savings contributions and increasing pensions over three years isn't enough for the greedy union workers.

Yeah, that sounds awesome, until you realize that you know.... they are shipping your job overseas...


Doesn't really matter how much they are gonna pay or how great the benefits are, if your job is no longer here in the USA.


I mean, you get that, right? You understand that outsourcing jobs isn't good for American workers, right?

Quote:Yeah, that sounds awesome, until you realize that you know.... they are shipping your job overseas...


Doesn't really matter how much they are gonna pay or how great the benefits are, if your job is no longer here in the USA.


I mean, you get that, right? You understand that outsourcing jobs isn't good for American workers, right?

 

You do understand that when a division of your company isn't doing well, and actually is losing money things need to change right?  Could a huge part of the reason that division is doing poorly have anything to do with outrageous demands by their union?  A 7.5% wage increase to workers in a losing division of the company isn't enough?

Quote:Interesting story.  I just looked at Verizon's stock, and it seems to be doing just fine.  It does seem that the generous offer of a 7.5% wage increase as well as company matching employee retirement savings contributions and increasing pensions over three years isn't enough for the greedy union workers.

Well that's not a biased statement at all. /s

Quote:Well that's not a biased statement at all. /s

 

Well, I am biased when liberals bring up the "corporate profits" argument without looking at the facts of the matter.

Quote:Interesting story.  I just looked at Verizon's stock, and it seems to be doing just fine.  It does seem that the generous offer of a 7.5% wage increase as well as company matching employee retirement savings contributions and increasing pensions over three years isn't enough for the greedy union workers.

Yeah. Those greedy workers...

Verizon Communications Inc. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Lowell McAdam received $18.3 million in total compensation last year, a 16 percent increase.( 2015 )


Earlier....Verizon To Lay Off 1,700 Workers After Paying CEO $22 Million Last Year


Must be that some "greedy workers" have to look out for themselves, especially when your employer wont

Quote:Yeah. Those greedy workers...


Verizon Communications Inc. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Lowell McAdam received $18.3 million in total compensation last year, a 16 percent increase.( 2015 )

 

So what's your point?

Quote:You do understand that when a division of your company isn't doing well, and actually is losing money things need to change right? Could a huge part of the reason that division is doing poorly have anything to do with outrageous demands by their union? A 7.5% wage increase to workers in a losing division of the company isn't enough?

You might want to read up on what the workers are striking about. I mean at the end of the day, I know you really don't care and are just gonna side with the corporation, but at least understand both sides of the argument.


And demanding that your employer can't make you travel hundreds of miles away to a site for months at a time, forcing workers to either suffer through it out quit seems like a reasonable negotiating point. The union believes verizon is pushing this measure in order to force attrition and then never fill those positions back in, thus saving money at the price of workers and customer satisfaction.


Also, the fact that Verizon wants to move call centers out of the usa seems like a good thing for American workers to push back against, but hey, I'm just a crazy liberal. I haven't lost enough of my soul to be able to side with Verizon, like you have. As the saying goes, c'est la vie.

Quote:So what's your point?

Besides your ears, Mr Spock....pointing out that a generous offer of 7.5% seemed "greedy" to you, yet dont bat an eye when someone else gets 16%...while downsizing and laying off.

All good. You see it your way, and I will mine.

Quote:Well, I am biased when liberals bring up the "corporate profits" argument without looking at the facts of the matter.

With all due respect, jib, I just blew you the heck out in regards to the" facts of the matter". It's clear you have one side's talking points.


But you clearly don't understand what the issues both sides are in conflict over.

Quote:You might want to read up on what the workers are striking about. I mean at the end of the day, I know you really don't care and are just gonna side with the corporation, but at least understand both sides of the argument.

And demanding that your employer can't make you travel hundreds of miles away to a site for months at a time, forcing workers to either suffer through it out quit seems like a reasonable negotiating point. The union believes verizon is pushing this measure in order to force attrition and then never fill those positions back in, thus saving money at the price of workers and customer satisfaction.

Also, the fact that Verizon wants to move call centers out of the usa seems like a good thing for American workers to push back against, but hey, I'm just a crazy liberal. I haven't lost enough of my soul to be able to side with Verizon, like you have. As the saying goes, c'est la vie.

Many times when someone makes more than someone else, the only thing that seems relevant is that they may be greedy, put companies in a hardship,etc. As you point out, theres a much bigger picture. To me, if one can pay $18 million a year to one person, they certainly can do some Reaganomics with the rest of the employees.

Quote:Many times when someone makes more than someone else, the only thing that seems relevant is that they may be greedy, put companies in a hardship,etc. As you point out, theres a much bigger picture. To me, if one can pay $18 million a year to one person, they certainly can do some Reaganomics with the rest of the employees.

You would think, right? Not to mention that profits are running in the 18 billion dollar range.


And in addition, the segment that Verizon is trying to cut does have broadband capabilities. Unlike what some would have you believe, these are not dogs in terms of contributions to the revenue stream.


The name of the game is earnings per share, no thought of workers or customers comes into play.


This is why collective bargaining is important.