Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

I was speaking in response to the idea that quoting the founders "is never a particularly good argument"

Quote:I guess state government is good? But national government is bad?


I'm trying to figure out a reasonable answer as to why.


Did some research, apparently I'm more a Hamilton type of guy than a Jefferson guy...

Yes, local government, smaller government, odds always superior.

Quote:Yes, local government, smaller government, odds always superior.

Tell that to the slaves... I'm sure they'll agree with you...


Also, the residents of flint have some water they'd like to sell you.

Quote:Tell that to the slaves... I'm sure they'll agree with you...


Also, the residents of flint have some water they'd like to sell you.

 

In both instances there are/were perfectly reasonable resolutions for those situations. I don't think we need another 40 page discussion on the War of Northern Aggression.

Quote:In both instances there are/were perfectly reasonable resolutions for those situations. I don't think we need another 40 page discussion on the War of Northrern Aggression.

Lol, what? Too soon?


:-)

Quote:Tell that to the slaves... I'm sure they'll agree with you...


Also, the residents of flint have some water they'd like to sell you.

 

I dunno it's not like the federal govt came in and saved the day in Flint, MI (yet they should have... I mean what is the point of FEMA, or the Army corps of engineers)?

 

Absolute power corrupts absolutely!  I am all for more freedom and less interference.  The individuals that fought the British rule and created America as we know it today, never would've wanted to live in an American govt as it currently is with very little liberty for the common man. 

Quote:I dunno it's not like the federal govt came in and saved the day in Flint, MI (yet they should have... I mean what is the point of FEMA, or the Army corps of engineers)?


Absolute power corrupts absolutely! I am all for more freedom and less interference. The individuals that fought the British rule and created America as we know it today, never would've wanted to live in an American govt as it currently is with very little liberty for the common man.

The current federal government is corrupted. I'm totally in agreement with you on that.


But the solution isn't to destroy it, either. That's all I'm saying.


State government can be just as bad, if not worse...

Quote:The current federal government is corrupted. I'm totally in agreement with you on that.


But the solution isn't to destroy it, either. That's all I'm saying.


State government can be just as bad, if not worse...

This is the truth. I just moved to Oklahoma City for a job and in 5 short months I've noticed that this state government is nuts!

The state is facing a $1.3 billion deficit and what does the legislature do? Passes a bill to outlaw abortion and petition Congress to impeach President Obama! Great use of our time and tax dollars!

Meanwhile, the infrastructure is crumbling, an overpass of a busy intersection literally crumbled to the ground yesterday, good times. Funding for schools is being cut while the energy companies that ruin the environment are being subsidized. Supposedly they are job creators but hundreds of energy employees are being laid off every week.

So yea, we can't act like state government isn't a mess too. It seems like human nature leads to anybody getting even a little bit of power abusing the crap out of it.

Quote:The current federal government is corrupted. I'm totally in agreement with you on that.


But the solution isn't to destroy it, either. That's all I'm saying.


State government can be just as bad, if not worse...

 

Any government can be bad. Those with more power are more likely to be bad.


With State governments at least you get to pick from 50 choices, and voters are closer to the issues that matter most in that particular area.

Quote:Any government can be bad. Those with more power are more likely to be bad.


With State governments at least you get to pick from 50 choices, and voters are closer to the issues that matter most in that particular area.

Where does it end though. Right now the right sees the federal government as tyrannical. I don't see it as unrealistic for the same kinds of people to see state governments as tyrannical over local municipalities should the fed be hands off as much as the right wants it to be. Then it's municipalities as tyrannical over counties and then counties over homestead.

Quote:Where does it end though. Right now the right sees the federal government as tyrannical. I don't see it as unrealistic for the same kinds of people to see state governments as tyrannical over local municipalities should the fed be hands off as much as the right wants it to be. Then it's municipalities as tyrannical over counties and then counties over homestead.

The difference is that you can talk with your local government about local concerns and your vote has actual power. People feel powerless and disenfranchised against the giant machine.

Quote:This is the truth. I just moved to Oklahoma City for a job and in 5 short months I've noticed that this state government is nuts!

The state is facing a $1.3 billion deficit and what does the legislature do? Passes a bill to outlaw abortion and petition Congress to impeach President Obama! Great use of our time and tax dollars!

Meanwhile, the infrastructure is crumbling, an overpass of a busy intersection literally crumbled to the ground yesterday, good times. Funding for schools is being cut while the energy companies that ruin the environment are being subsidized. Supposedly they are job creators but hundreds of energy employees are being laid off every week.

So yea, we can't act like state government isn't a mess too. It seems like human nature leads to anybody getting even a little bit of power abusing the crap out of it.

 

I think a lot of the blame for this lies on the American people.  Americans complain that Congress is awful and give it historically low approval ratings, but they feel their own Congressman or Congresswoman is great.  It is always someone else's fault (and this is true with both political parties, so lets not make this into a list of the other party's faults.)  Politicians respond to the people.  In OK the politicians probably thought about it and said, "we can get more approval points by passing this impeachment petition than actually creating jobs."  Of course, that impeachment petition is easier to do, requires no compromise and can be added to their list of reasons they are a true conservative.  Again, this is a problem with both political parties. Liberals are also finding it easier to do the same thing, just with a different focus.

 

I remember Obama being blasted by liberals for not standing up to coal companies enough. John McCain has been accused of being a RINO because he works across the aisle.  The Tea Party movement of a few years ago swept tons of politicians out of office for compromising.  Lieberman was blasted by Dems for this, Mitch McConnell by the Rep.  Heck, John Boenher, who is far from liberal, would get blasted constantly for even suggesting compromise. Heaven forbid if a Democrat thinks that an oil company should be get any support.  Americans have sent the message that we want our leaders to refuse to compromise.  This has happened before in US History.  Periods of ineffectual legislative sessions.  Hopefully people can come together without needing some tragedy or war to occur first.

Quote:I think a lot of the blame for this lies on the American people.  Americans complain that Congress is awful and give it historically low approval ratings, but they feel their own Congressman or Congresswoman is great.  It is always someone else's fault (and this is true with both political parties, so lets not make this into a list of the other party's faults.)  Politicians respond to the people.  In OK the politicians probably thought about it and said, "we can get more approval points by passing this impeachment petition than actually creating jobs."  Of course, that impeachment petition is easier to do, requires no compromise and can be added to their list of reasons they are a true conservative.  Again, this is a problem with both political parties. Liberals are also finding it easier to do the same thing, just with a different focus.

 

I remember Obama being blasted by liberals for not standing up to coal companies enough. John McCain has been accused of being a RINO because he works across the aisle.  The Tea Party movement of a few years ago swept tons of politicians out of office for compromising.  Lieberman was blasted by Dems for this, Mitch McConnell by the Rep.  Heck, John Boenher, who is far from liberal, would get blasted constantly for even suggesting compromise. Heaven forbid if a Democrat thinks that an oil company should be get any support.  Americans have sent the message that we want our leaders to refuse to compromise.  This has happened before in US History.  Periods of ineffectual legislative sessions.  Hopefully people can come together without needing some tragedy or war to occur first.

 

First off, while the Tea Party had some effect, the establishment still controls both houses. The recent budget was not "compromise" in any reach of the meaning of that. It was Obama's budget.


 

Right now the establishment of both parties are the problem. It's the "moderates" that keep voting for corporate welfare. It's the "moderates" that toss billions into wasteful spending on programs that have no effect, and refuse to hold agencies accountable. The 'Pubs talked big and made some grand gestures they knew would fail, but since they won the Senate and actually had the chance to cut spending and move the government towards the right, they have done nothing. The party elites only look out for themselves and their friends. We are subjects of an increasingly more powerful ruling class.

Quote:I think a lot of the blame for this lies on the American people.  Americans complain that Congress is awful and give it historically low approval ratings, but they feel their own Congressman or Congresswoman is great.  It is always someone else's fault (and this is true with both political parties, so lets not make this into a list of the other party's faults.)  Politicians respond to the people.  In OK the politicians probably thought about it and said, "we can get more approval points by passing this impeachment petition than actually creating jobs."  Of course, that impeachment petition is easier to do, requires no compromise and can be added to their list of reasons they are a true conservative.  Again, this is a problem with both political parties. Liberals are also finding it easier to do the same thing, just with a different focus.

 

I remember Obama being blasted by liberals for not standing up to coal companies enough. John McCain has been accused of being a RINO because he works across the aisle.  The Tea Party movement of a few years ago swept tons of politicians out of office for compromising.  Lieberman was blasted by Dems for this, Mitch McConnell by the Rep.  Heck, John Boenher, who is far from liberal, would get blasted constantly for even suggesting compromise. Heaven forbid if a Democrat thinks that an oil company should be get any support.  Americans have sent the message that we want our leaders to refuse to compromise.  This has happened before in US History.  Periods of ineffectual legislative sessions.  Hopefully people can come together without needing some tragedy or war to occur first.

Quote:First off, while the Tea Party had some effect, the establishment still controls both houses. The recent budget was not "compromise" in any reach of the meaning of that. It was Obama's budget.


 

Right now the establishment of both parties are the problem. It's the "moderates" that keep voting for corporate welfare. It's the "moderates" that toss billions into wasteful spending on programs that have no effect, and refuse to hold agencies accountable. The 'Pubs talked big and made some grand gestures they knew would fail, but since they won the Senate and actually had the chance to cut spending and move the government towards the right, they have done nothing. The party elites only look out for themselves and their friends. We are subjects of an increasingly more powerful ruling class.

 

“It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.” 
― <a class="" href='https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/3543.Ronald_Reagan'>Ronald Reagan</a>

Quote:The difference is that you can talk with your local government about local concerns and your vote has actual power. People feel powerless and disenfranchised against the giant machine.

That's what I was getting at though. You can talk to your local authorities and get thing passed like say extra anti discrimination laws and then have those overruled by state govs.

The state government will be infinitely easier the change through election that a federal bureacracy.

Quote:That's what I was getting at though. You can talk to your local authorities and get thing passed like say extra anti discrimination laws and then have those overruled by state govs.

 

Yes, but Jacksonville has much more pull with Tallahassee than with D.C.

CNN's breaking story that Donald Trump didn't truly raise $6 Million for the VETS as he claimed back in January....

 

then you find out the facts are that he said what was pledged and all the funds didn't come in to total that.. you know what

 

that happens a 99% of the time from all charities.. maybe 1 % have exact or more than pledged but not usually....

 

the way they try to spin everything into a negative for him... crazy.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/...-5491.html

 

ABC, FOX News, and Rasmussen Reports polls show Donald Trump defeating Hilary if the election was done today. NBC (very far left liberal owned)  & CBS show Hilary as the winner.