Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Lol, wasn't this a Monday night game?

I think I found it.

 

10/18/2010  David Garrard and Troy Edwards were QB

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101800...&tab=recap

@jagwired:  

 

You would think people wouldn't need to be told what is important and what isn't important.  But that's just not how it works.  That's why we have coaches.  They set the direction for the team.  They emphasize what will be focused upon and what will not be focused upon.  And if the focus is on some "process" but not specifically on winning, then that's a major problem.

 

Dude, go back and re-read the quote from what lewis said.  He specifically said that winning wasn't important, but that the process was important.  That's what he said.  Did he misspeak?  I don't think so.  I think it's been driven into the player's mind-set that the process is the key and winning will eventually come.

 

Bradley is specifically and consiously putting something ahead of winning.  I mean, it's just simple logic.  If something is more important than winning, then winning isn't the priority. 

 

And thus you have what we have here.  A team that lost 3 games in a row to the clots, bucs, and tinhorns.  3 teams that at the time we were playing them had inferior overall talent when compared to the overall talent of our team.

 

That's all coaching.

Quote:I think I found it.

 

10/18/2010  David Garrard and Troy Edwards were QB

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010101800...&tab=recap

Tiquan Underwood!  What a bum, ran the wrong route

Quote:@jagwired:  

 

You would think people wouldn't need to be told what is important and what isn't important.  But that's just not how it works.  That's why we have coaches.  They set the direction for the team.  They emphasize what will be focused upon and what will not be focused upon.  And if the focus is on some "process" but not specifically on winning, then that's a major problem.

 

Dude, go back and re-read the quote from what lewis said.  He specifically said that winning wasn't important, but that the process was important.  That's what he said.  Did he misspeak?  I don't think so.  I think it's been driven into the player's mind-set that the process is the key and winning will eventually come.

 

Bradley is specifically and consiously putting something ahead of winning.  I mean, it's just simple logic.  If something is more important than winning, then winning isn't the priority. 

 

And thus you have what we have here.  A team that lost 3 games in a row to the clots, bucs, and tinhorns.  3 teams that at the time we were playing them had inferior overall talent when compared to the overall talent of our team.

 

That's all coaching.

I don't think Bradley is putting something ahead of winning.  I think he simply sees the process as the pathway to improvement, and improvement will lead to winning.  It's important to do the small things right, and to build upon that. As the team ties up the loose ends and fundamentals, the wins should come.  I think people are misinterpreting what Marcedes is saying because it gives them one more thing to rip the player, the team, and the coach over.  Ultimately, Bradley, Caldwell, and every person who draws a check from the Jaguars recognizes that winning is what matters, and they are focused on the process that they believe will allow them to achieve that end result. 

Quote:I don't think Bradley is putting something ahead of winning.  I think he simply sees the process as the pathway to improvement, and improvement will lead to winning.  It's important to do the small things right, and to build upon that. As the team ties up the loose ends and fundamentals, the wins should come.  I think people are misinterpreting what Marcedes is saying because it gives them one more thing to rip the player, the team, and the coach over.  Ultimately, Bradley, Caldwell, and every person who draws a check from the Jaguars recognizes that winning is what matters, and they are focused on the process that they believe will allow them to achieve that end result. 

 

But by definition, he's putting the process ahead of winning.  He's putting his recipe ahead of winning.  He believes that what he's focusing on will result in wins.  But it clearly isn't.  

 

For example:  Based on the injuries we have, it's clear that we're not gonna get to the QB by just rushing 4.  Because we can't harrass the QB rushing 4, our 3 deep zone is getting picked apart.  The process that Bradley wants to follow isn't working.  A good coach would adjust in order to win.

 

Bradley believes if he keeps doing the same thing the wins will come.  

 

Can you see the flaw in this logic and in his approach?

 

As the leader, he can continue to pat guys on the back and say, "hey, we're gonna keep competing and getting better".  Because he's the one telling them to keep doing the same thing.  The players, since they are listening to the coach, aren't getting called out for losing because they are "following the process".

 

So you have a never ending loop of self congratulatory back patting.  But in no way are they getting to the point of fixing the issue.  The issue will "fix itself" because the process is going to work.

 

However, the process isn't working because we aren't winning.  But winning isn't the priority, so just trust the process.

 

It's like the worst negative feedback loop of a loser's mentality ever.  And it's not gonna correct itself untill we get rid of the HC that is pumping this mentality into the players.  

 

But that's just how I see it.

Quote:Funny how someone's post count is somehow a direct reflection on that individual's knowledge about any particular topic...

That's what the Germans would like us to believe......

I'm confused about what "putting the process ahead of winning " means. Now in their third season putting the process in place, I don't see very much progress. I had a boss when I was working who had a 5 year plan. The first year was " The Year of The Plan ", the second year was " The Year of The Factory " . The third year was " The Year of the Product " . The fourth year was " The Year of The Sale "............. I can't remember what the fifth year was......I think it was " The Year of The Resume " because he was fired after year 2.


I would think, early in the process, teaching a player how to line up onsides would be an easy task. For the Head Coach, determining when to throw the red challenge flag could be mastered by year 2. Allowing a future Hall of Fame QB to sit unmolested in the pocket for 4 quarters while he picks your defense apart, while admittedly more complex of a problem, should at least send a signal that another solution might be attempted.


I'm totally onboard with creating processes that result in winning football games. We called that " building a fortress " in my company. I'm just not sure how many more " 5 Year Plans " this fan base can tolerate.

I can't believe that people are still arguing about this.  Marcedes was right.  Rather than just pick one small quote, take his whole statement in context.

 

Quote: 

"It was just annoying," Lewis said. "Like, look, be quiet. Just be quiet. You guys are not out here grinding. If you’re not going to be running with us through the tough times then just forget it. It doesn’t necessarily matter what you think.

 
"We’re grinding. We’re out here working hard. Things are not going our way. And I feel like if we were to think like that, then where would we be anyway."

 

Obviously that's frustration not only directed at the fans, but also because of the fact that the team is working hard, working long hours and is not getting results.

 

Quote: 

"I just put it out there just to say, ‘Look, it’s not about wins and losses all the time,’" Lewis said. "We are a team that really believes in the process. If you’re that type of team that you believe in the process then you understand that good times are going to come and results will go your way at some point.

 
"If you’re somebody that has a fixed mindset who thinks that it’s all about winning then you’re going to do anything you can to get your results, no matter if you’re doing the wrong thing or being selfish or whatever
. As long as you get your results that’s all that matters to you, and that’s not how we think in this team."

 

What he is talking about is probably part of what is hurting this team right now.  If they go out and just "do their jobs", eventually the wins are going to come.  If players are going out and trying to do "extra" stuff by being "selfish or whatever" that hurts the whole system and the whole team.

 

If they go out and just "do their jobs", nothing more nothing less, eventually the wins are going to come.

Quote:I'm confused about what "putting the process ahead of winning " means. Now in their third season putting the process in place, I don't see very much progress. I had a boss when I was working who had a 5 year plan. The first year was " The Year of The Plan ", the second year was " The Year of The Factory " . The third year was " The Year of the Product " . The fourth year was " The Year of The Sale "............. I can't remember what the fifth year was......I think it was " The Year of The Resume " because he was fired after year 2.


I would think, early in the process, teaching a player how to line up onsides would be an easy task. For the Head Coach, determining when to throw the red challenge flag could be mastered by year 2. Allowing a future Hall of Fame QB to sit unmolested in the pocket for 4 quarters while he picks your defense apart, while admittedly more complex of a problem, should at least send a signal that another solution might be attempted.


I'm totally onboard with creating processes that result in winning football games. We called that " building a fortress " in my company. I'm just not sure how many more " 5 Year Plans " this fan base can tolerate.

 

Well said...

 

I think the thing that Gus fails to do, which as a person in any other profession realizes quickly is that you must re-evaluate after every success and every failure.  What worked?  Why did it work?  How do you ensure that this success will continue.

 

And in Bradley's case:

 

What failed?  Why did if fail?  How can we ensure this failure does not occur again?

 

I don't think Bradley is capabale of self evaluation.  I'm not sure if he every truly has figured out why things are failing. And I'm pretty positive he doesn't have a solution in order to reduce those failures.

 

Your example of the "Challenge Flag" failure is such a good example because it's something that we all have seen.  This guy is in year 3 of his head coaching stint, and he still has no clue as to when to throw the challenge flag, and when to just shove it straight up his [BAD WORD REMOVED].

Quote:Maybe he was alluding to the 25000 empty seats at the game last Sunday. In a sense, he is correct. I find the majority of the Jags "Fans" as soft as the [I'M NOT CLEVER ENOUGH TO COME UP WITH ANYTHING BETTER] they are always joking about.

 

no ones softer than you though

I have a simple view of success that has served me well over the years.

 

Do more of what works.... and less of what doesn't.

It's really okay to make mistakes......its how we learn.

Quote:But by definition, he's putting the process ahead of winning.  He's putting his recipe ahead of winning.  He believes that what he's focusing on will result in wins.  But it clearly isn't.  

 

For example:  Based on the injuries we have, it's clear that we're not gonna get to the QB by just rushing 4.  Because we can't harrass the QB rushing 4, our 3 deep zone is getting picked apart.  The process that Bradley wants to follow isn't working.  A good coach would adjust in order to win.

 

Bradley believes if he keeps doing the same thing the wins will come.  

 

Can you see the flaw in this logic and in his approach?

 

As the leader, he can continue to pat guys on the back and say, "hey, we're gonna keep competing and getting better".  Because he's the one telling them to keep doing the same thing.  The players, since they are listening to the coach, aren't getting called out for losing because they are "following the process".

 

So you have a never ending loop of self congratulatory back patting.  But in no way are they getting to the point of fixing the issue.  The issue will "fix itself" because the process is going to work.

 

However, the process isn't working because we aren't winning.  But winning isn't the priority, so just trust the process.

 

It's like the worst negative feedback loop of a loser's mentality ever.  And it's not gonna correct itself untill we get rid of the HC that is pumping this mentality into the players.  

 

But that's just how I see it.

 

Winning is ultimately the goal.  They've said as much repeatedly by saying they expected the team to turn the corner this year, and to compete for the post season next.  You can't lose your way into that position.  The process is their road map to getting the team back to winning consistently. 

Quote:Winning is ultimately the goal. They've said as much repeatedly by saying they expected the team to turn the corner this year, and to compete for the post season next. You can't lose your way into that position. The process is their road map to getting the team back to winning consistently.

Winning was supposed to be year 3 goal...I guess we're pushing that back a year now? Can't wait to see it get moved back to year five next year.

What is funny about marcedes comment is that this guy actually thinks he will be on the team when this process starts showing results.

Quote:no ones softer than you though

Pimplenipple in the house.

When you are winning, Everything you say and do is right.

 

When you are losing, Everything you say and do is wrong. 

 

I think Bradley understands this more than most at this point. After seattle, He could do no wrong. Now? He is the embodiment of wrong to this fanbase. 

 

Lewis is speaking the truth. Fans need to shut the heck up. Bradley will sink or swim and it wont take too much longer to see what it ultimately is.