Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

I think it's fairly obvious what's going on here. Caldwell and Bradley are calling Henne the starter to take pressure off of Bortles (which is very understandable). However, there's no way that Bortles doesn't start the season if he's clearly playing better (which is totally possible by the way).

 

Think about it. They believed in the guy enough to take him at 3. Sure, it's technically true that Henne probably gives them the best chance to win AT THE MOMENT, but by the end of camp, after he's had an opportunity to digest the playbook? That's another story. A guy drafted at 3 should certainly be able to beat out Henne fairly quickly, and I think there's a good chance he will. Remember, it's not like Henne set anything close to a high standard. The bar is remarkably low.

 

Someone tried to compare the situation to the Kitna-Palmer situation in Cincy. The thing to remember is that they were actually winning some games that year (I think they went 8-8), and he really didn't play that badly (3500 yes, 26 td, 15 int). Nothing about Henne's career suggests that those numbers are attainable. 

 

It's also worth noting that Manning and Matt Ryan both started as rookies when Caldwell was with those two regimes. Good quarterbacks don't become bad quarterbacks because they are thrown to the wolves too early. Blaine was terrible, and was always going to be terrible. Caldwell has been around the league long enough to know that.

 

So while Gus and Dave will publicly name Henne the starter for the foreseeable future, I'm sure they're expecting Bortles to surpass him rather quickly. How could they not? The clearly think he's much more talented. I doubt Henne lasts even a quarter of the season.

The "forseeable future" is a pretty vague statement. That could mean next month.

The whole idea behind Caldwell's thinking is to not set up any premature expectations for Bortles. He's walking into a situation where they've created an environment where there is no added pressure for him to be the guy day 1. He can take his time to get acclimated to the speed of the game and work on improving his footwork and mechanics. If he goes out and performs in practice and in the classroom eventually it'll be evident that he's ready to play . But for now he's better off served on the bench, it certainly won't hurt him any.

Quote:The whole idea behind Caldwell's thinking is to not set up any premature expectations for Bortles. He's walking into a situation where they've created an environment where there is no added pressure for him to be the guy day 1. He can take his time to get acclimated to the speed of the game and work on improving his footwork and mechanics. If he goes out and performs in practice and in the classroom eventually it'll be evident that he's ready to play . But for now he's better off served on the bench, it certainly won't hurt him any.

Totally agree. I just think they believe there's a better chance he wins the job than they're letting on publicly. They're actually going to make him win via a real competition, unlike what happened last year. And honestly, I think there's a good chance he wins it.

I actually think we could threaten for a playoff spot with Henne if all the other pieces around him fall into place.  Its fashionable on here to hate on Henne but he isnt a terrible player. He almost led the Dolphins into the playoffs.  He could easily do the same for us.  

 

No reason to rush Bortles before we have to.  Our Oline on paper looks solid but it could be awful next year if Brewster chokes and Pasztor gets exposed.  The WRs on paper look good but rookies rarely stand out and Shorts is one bad hit to the head from retiring.  The RBs on paper look solid but they stunk last year without MJD.  If the offense around the QB is lousy next year we dont need to be putting Bortles back there.

The decision to sit Blake has nothing to do with talent. He needs more work on some fundamentals and bad habits in order to realize his full potential as a pro. You don't fix fundamentals and bad habits in a couple of months. It takes time for these things to get ingrained. To put him under fire before the proper skills are ingrained he will begin to fall back on bad habits which will further reinforce the old habits. If you don't give a person the proper environment to overcome bad fundamentals and habits it becomes a one step forward two steps back type of situation. Lack of patience could actually slow his overall development considerably. I think Bradley and Caldwell have enough foresight to remain patient despite possible pressure from short sighted fans and media.

I think he starts when he learns the playbook, adjusts to the speed, and when his footwork becomes muscle memory

Please rewind your mind one year. You are getting ahead of yourself and it's confusing and disturbing the natives.

Quote:I actually think we could threaten for a playoff spot with Henne if all the other pieces around him fall into place.  Its fashionable on here to hate on Henne but he isnt a terrible player. He almost led the Dolphins into the playoffs.  He could easily do the same for us.  

 

No reason to rush Bortles before we have to.  Our Oline on paper looks solid but it could be awful next year if Brewster chokes and Pasztor gets exposed.  The WRs on paper look good but rookies rarely stand out and Shorts is one bad hit to the head from retiring.  The RBs on paper look solid but they stunk last year without MJD.  If the offense around the QB is lousy next year we dont need to be putting Bortles back there.

When did Henne almost take the dolphins to the playoffs? He honestly never played very well, even when he had a stud like Brandon Marshall at receiver.

Quote:The decision to sit Blake has nothing to do with talent. He needs more work on some fundamentals and bad habits in order to realize his full potential as a pro. You don't fix fundamentals and bad habits in a couple of months. It takes time for these things to get ingrained. To put him under fire before the proper skills are ingrained he will begin to fall back on bad habits which will further reinforce the old habits. If you don't give a person the proper environment to overcome bad fundamentals and habits it becomes a one step forward two steps back type of situation. Lack of patience could actually slow his overall development considerably. I think Bradley and Caldwell have enough foresight to remain patient despite possible pressure from short sighted fans and media.

If he knows the playbook well enough, he'll be fine. Everyone has bad habits, but his are mostly footwork related. It's not like there are glaring bad habits in his game, like a certain number 11. He plays well under pressure in the pocket, and if he's comfortable enough with our playbook, he should continue to do so. Footwork will not be the reason he doesn't start.

Quote:If he knows the playbook well enough, he'll be fine. Everyone has bad habits, but his are mostly footwork related. It's not like there are glaring bad habits in his game, like a certain number 11. He plays well under pressure in the pocket, and if he's comfortable enough with our playbook, he should continue to do so. Footwork will not be the reason he doesn't start.

 

You obviously do not understand what it is like to make the jump from NCAA to NFL speed. The Jaguars certainly would not have named Chad Henne as the starter if the rookie just needed to learn the playbook and stop bad habits. So what if Blake Bortles was #3? Peyton Manning was #1 overall and, thrown into the fire on Day 1, led the NFL in interceptions as a rookie. John Elway, also a #1 overall pick, was benched during his rookie season after struggling a lot on Sundays. They should have spent the first year warming benches. Of course we all know they deserved to be picked #1 overall and did not have many bad habits in college. It should be obvious the same can happen to Bortles if he is named the Week 1 starter at the beginning of training camp.

It's not a matter of if Bortles starts this season but when

Manning led the league in interceptions, but he came back with a vengeance the next year. Why? Because he's a good quarterback. Bortles is going to make mistakes, a lot of them. But good quarterbacks can put those behind them. Manning did. 

 

 

On the opposite side of the spectrum, whenever Blaine made a mistake, it took the air out of the offense for the rest of the game. He clearly didn't have the mental fortitude to get over it. Based on everything the coaches have said, Bortle's personality is completely the opposite.

Quote:Someone tried to compare the situation to the Kitna-Palmer situation in Cincy. The thing to remember is that they were actually winning some games that year (I think they went 8-8), and he really didn't play that badly (3500 yes, 26 td, 15 int). Nothing about Henne's career suggests that those numbers are attainable.

 

My point was Carson Palmer won eight games in his first year as a starter because that was his second NFL season. He did not take a single snap in 2003. My hope now is that we have the same success the Bengals did: division title in three years. If it worked for Palmer, the Bengals must have done something right.

Quote:It's not a matter of if Bortles starts this season but when.

 

First things first, when will he play in backup duty? I think that will come before he is named the starter.

Quote:My point was Carson Palmer won eight games in his first year as a starter because that was his second NFL season. He did not take a single snap in 2003. My hope now is that we have the same success the Bengals did: division title in three years. If it worked for Palmer, the Bengals must have done something right.

I think Manning would say that playing that rookie year was beneficial in the long run. It's called learning from your mistakes. There's only so much you can learn riding the bench. Even if he does sit his rookie year, there will be a learning process whenever he finally takes the field.

 

Also, the two examples you gave for why Bortles shouldn't start right away: Elway, Manning.

 

The example you gave arguing the benefits of sitting: Carson Palmer. One of these things is not like the other...

It probably doesn't just depend on Blake's development.  There are a lot of new parts on the offensive line and they will likely need some time to develop as a unit.

 

While I am cautiously optimistic about the oline changes there it would be in our best interests to start Henne at least until we know what we have there.  There is no sense in sending Bortles down the path of David Carr.  If the line is still a mess, keep Henne in the entire season and restock accordingly in '15.

Quote:It probably doesn't just depend on Blake's development.  There are a lot of new parts on the offensive line and they will likely need some time to develop as a unit.

 

While I am cautiously optimistic about the oline changes there it would be in our best interests to start Henne at least until we know what we have there.  There is no sense in sending Bortles down the path of David Carr.  If the line is still a mess, keep Henne in the entire season and restock accordingly in '15.

If there was anything close to concrete evidence that Carr was bad because he played early, then there would maybe be an argument there. But there are plenty of examples of successful guys who came in and played right away. Roethlisberger wasn't outstanding by any stretch of the imagination his rookie year, but he played in 14 games. Also, if the hope is that we wait until the line is fortified at every position before starting him, we could be waiting a while. It's just not realistic.

I would not start BB until the offensive line gels and the new receivers are running the right routes. I want to give him the best chance of immediate success by eliminating the kind of distractions that come from wrong routes and bad pass blocking. I think we all bear the mental scars from the Blaine Gabbert experience. I think part of the reason for that abysmal failure was rushing him into starting without adequate support from the play of his offensive line and WRs. I, for one, am sick of seeing our QB and WR have a sideline discussion after an Int or interception.

Quote:If there was anything close to concrete evidence that Carr was bad because he played early, then there would maybe be an argument there. But there are plenty of examples of successful guys who came in and played right away. Roethlisberger wasn't outstanding by any stretch of the imagination his rookie year, but he played in 14 games. Also, if the hope is that we wait until the line is fortified at every position before starting him, we could be waiting a while. It's just not realistic.

David Carr got sacked one hundred and forty times in his first two seasons. That has to damage the psyche of a young QB.