Quote:What track record does Khan, Caldwell and Bradley have in the past decade with this franchise?
Good point... But in all honesty, this trade feels like more of the same from the previous regime. It's only one move, but it was a cheap move. Something we've grown used to seeing from this organization. I'd love for the Jags to once go all out for something high end.
And I realize we spent big on Lewis and Garrard, but those were bad signings... Spending on Monroe, or at least trying to negotiate with him would have been something nice to see. As we know, O-Linemen don't just grow on trees. And the one good one we had we kinda just shoved off with the first bidder that called us.
I'm not saying Caldwell is garbage, but this move wasn't a shining moment for him. On the up side, I liked the 2013 draft, like I've said before. All we as fans can do now is groan over the trade and hope he can find some diamonds in the rough with the picks we got. <Crossing fingers>
Quote:You also have to think about where this RT is picked up?
If we use a draft pick higher than what we received or sign an FA to the sort of big money deal we could have paid Monroe, we have just sharted value.
True - there is only a slim chance we don't come out on the downside of this deal. I realize that. Hopefully it's not
way down the downside of a steep slope...
It's only fair to consider what we don't know about this deal as well though. We aren't privy to all the info and the extent of the variables like ZBS fit, Monroe's intention to sign elsewhere next year , Monroe's drop off in performance this season etc.... They may be small factors - they may be considerable. I'm not defending Caldwell in the move - the value he got seems weak - but I think these things are worth consideration.
Quote:Good point... But in all honesty, this trade feels like more of the same from the previous regime. It's only one move, but it was a cheap move. Something we've grown used to seeing from this organization. I'd love for the Jags to once go all out for something high end.
And I realize we spent big on Lewis and Garrard, but those were bad signings... Spending on Monroe, or at least trying to negotiate with him would have been something nice to see. As we know, O-Linemen don't just grow on trees. And the one good one we had we kinda just shoved off with the first bidder that called us.
I'm not saying Caldwell is garbage, but this move wasn't a shining moment for him. On the up side, I liked the 2013 draft, like I've said before. All we as fans can do now is groan over the trade and hope he can find some diamonds in the rough with the picks we got. <Crossing fingers>
We wouldn't have been willing to pay a RT what other teams would offer him at LT. They feel Luke is the better prospect at LT.
Quote:When? Again, if you think the Jags are moving you shouldn't even be wasting your time on this board. I think we have enough of that crap coming from the media. We don't need our own fans (if you truly are a fan) jumping on the media bandwagon. So you won't be bitter? You say it like you would be happy about it.
That fool is a troll. Not even a good one. His jabs are weak, like him.
Quote:You also have to think about where this RT is picked up?
If we use a draft pick higher than what we received or sign an FA to the sort of big money deal we could have paid Monroe, we have just sharted value.
Would you want to pay Monroe LT money to play RT?
Quote:That's an oft-used excuse. For the first 2-3 years of Gene it was always "he hasn't had enough time". It's obvious I wasn't trying to indicate anything in the history of Caldwell and Bradley, just that history shows us that there are homers on this board that support every decision made by this franchise, and are unable to be impartial.
There are those that is for sure, but the exact opposite is also the case that some believe all decisions to be bad.
Quote:When? Again, if you think the Jags are moving you shouldn't even be wasting your time on this board. I think we have enough of that crap coming from the media. We don't need our own fans (if you truly are a fan) jumping on the media bandwagon. So you won't be bitter? You say it like you would be happy about it.
At this point I'm just numb. This homer cronyism has been going on for the better part of a decade...it's evolving into insanity.
Quote:{YAWN}
Let me guess, you don't "trust" Khan either??
The writing is on the wall. I can't think of another reason to devoid the roster of talent other then to move it somewhere else. It makes no sense at all but somehow a few want to argue otherwise when it's not warranted.
Quote:That fool is a troll. Not even a good one. His jabs are weak, like him.
Yeah, that is it. I've been spending ten years of my life trolling Jaguars.com to get a rise out of Jaguars fans. You're so intuitive. Moron
Quote:
Yeah, that is it. I've been spending ten years of my life trolling Jaguars.com to get a rise out of Jaguars fans. You're so intuitive. Moron
There are plenty of you clowns that have. Put the tinfoil back on before they get you Mel.
Quote:Would you want to pay Monroe LT money to play RT?
No, I'd pay him LT money to play LT as was the plan in the first place.
Quote:Good point... But in all honesty, this trade feels like more of the same from the previous regime. It's only one move, but it was a cheap move. Something we've grown used to seeing from this organization. I'd love for the Jags to once go all out for something high end.
And I realize we spent big on Lewis and Garrard, but those were bad signings... Spending on Monroe, or at least trying to negotiate with him would have been something nice to see. As we know, O-Linemen don't just grow on trees. And the one good one we had we kinda just shoved off with the first bidder that called us.
I'm not saying Caldwell is garbage, but this move wasn't a shining moment for him. On the up side, I liked the 2013 draft, like I've said before. All we as fans can do now is groan over the trade and hope he can find some diamonds in the rough with the picks we got. <Crossing fingers>
I'll say it again - I am as ticked off as anyone that we didn't get better value for Monroe in this trade....
That being said,
I do not think this trade was a salary dump or trying to be "cheap" as implied above.
I think it was a football decision based on being leery of Joeckel regressing while out of his natural OLT spot, and Joeckel simply having much higher upside at OLT than Monroe. Monroe was not a good option for ORT, so it was bon voyage time. Now, again, I think better management could have arrived at this conclusion sooner, such as the previous offseason, and maybe got better value for Monroe, but to think this wasn't a "football" decision, is folly, IMO.
Quote:In April, many of us were excited when we took Luke Joeckel at #2. It meant that we would have bookend tackles for the next 10 years. Apparently, David Caldwell did not feel the same way. It's funny, because after the draft, I made a topic saying it would be a good idea to trade Eugene Monroe. Of course, I was flamed, because it was the unconventional idea. But here it is.
Caldwell thinks multiple 3rd Day draft picks are worth more than Monroe. I agree. And here's why. Note: it can not and will not be a 7th rounder included in the trade, because Baltimore has already traded theirs.
This upcoming draft is LOADED with talent through every single round. It's one of the deepest we've seen in a long, long time. There's a reason why this is a no-brainer. Here is just a small list of the OT prospects coming out in the 2014 Draft. http://www.football.com/en-us/2014-nfl-d...e-tackles/. If you take a look, these are all very explosive players. The amount of quality tackles coming out in this draft has not been seen for a very long time. The draft is so deep, we could potentially get a normally 2nd round talent, in the 3rd-4th round.
There was always speculation whether Monroe would even be Franchised or signed to a new contract for 2014. Now, we know what Caldwell's plan was. Monroe wasn't going to be here next year. Luke Joeckel gets to return to his normal position, and we don't have to pay big Top-10 LT money for Monroe. Monroe was one of my favorite players on this team, but it was the right move. It's a good thing Baltimore was interested, because we got more in this trade than we would have gotten if we had let him walk in F/A (Compensatory picks).
I think it's a definite that OL, and DE will be a pretty big focus in April 2014. This roster is being turned over on to it's head. And Caldwell's doing it the right way. We need to accumulate as many picks as we can. We may have just gotten 3-4 for a player who we would have let walk in F/A.
We all knew and said this thing needed to be blown up. And now it is. This is a good trade, stop derping and look at it like this.
Multiple picks for Monroe is just fine. A bunch of us drew hatred for suggesting the idea of trading Monroe, who we all knew was going to deal with the draft selection of Luke Joeckel like a dog in the manger.
The Big Whiff is Newsome's problem now.
.
P.S. If you DVR'd the Colts watch the right side of our offensive line at 5:15 mark of the third quarter. Luke, you beast!
Quote:I'll say it again - I am as ticked off as anyone that we didn't get better value for Monroe in this trade....
That being said,
I do not think this trade was a salary dump or trying to be "cheap" as implied above.
I think it was a football decision based on being leery of Joeckel regressing while out of his natural OLT spot, and Joeckel simply having much higher upside at OLT than Monroe. Monroe was not a good option for ORT, so it was bon voyage time. Now, again, I think better management could have arrived at this conclusion sooner, such as the previous offseason, and maybe got better value for Monroe, but to think this wasn't a "football" decision, is folly, IMO.
Far too much is made of the difference between RT and LT. LT is more important because the QBs blindside is more vulnerable, but from the perspective of the lineman its still just run blocking or pass blocking, you don't do one or the other less because of which side you are on.
This idea of neither guy being able to play on the right because they are more finesse than mauler is poop.
People are making a huge effort to understand this trade and to me its inexplicable.
Quote:Far too much is made of the difference between RT and LT. LT is more important because the QBs blindside is more vulnerable, but from the perspective of the lineman its still just run blocking or pass blocking, you don't do one or the other less because of which side you are on.
This idea of neither guy being able to play on the right because they are more finesse than mauler is poop.
People are making a huge effort to understand this trade and to me its inexplicable.
I disagree with you. There is a difference, and if you are more of a finesse player which both Joeckel & Monroe are, then you aren't a great fit for the ORT position.
I'm not saying that teams don't "get by" with finesse ORT's, but the better ORT's in the game aren't "finesse" players.
And I certainly don't want to pay Monroe giant money to play ORT when he's simply not a great fit, nor is he likely to be all that successful at it.
Joeckel has the higher upside at OLT; he was regressing at ORT. Thats partly why this move was made. Joeckel's future takes precedent over Monroe's .
I actually love the trade but I have a feeling that Gabbert hates it. lol
Quote:I disagree with you. There is a difference, and if you are more of a finesse player which both Joeckel & Monroe are, then you aren't a great fit for the ORT position.
I'm not saying that teams don't "get by" with finesse ORT's, but the better ORT's in the game aren't "finesse" players.
And I certainly don't want to pay Monroe giant money to play ORT when he's simply not a great fit, nor is he likely to be all that successful at it.
Joeckel has the higher upside at OLT; he was regressing at ORT. Thats partly why this move was made. Joeckel's future takes precedent over Monroe's .
Its the modern NFL man, OTs are pass blockers first.
If its a run play, you run block, if its a pass play, you pass block, if you have a weakness in either area youre going to be a liability. This idea of RTs being maulers and LTs being basketball players was never really accurate and now in the basketball on grass era, its even further from the truth.
I'm not accepting that Joeckel's mediocre performance so far is due all down to switching sides, he is a rookie, most rookies don't come in and light it up, its far more likely his struggles are connected to adjusting to the speed of the game rather than where he stands on the field. If a few games of a rookie season is all it took Caldwell to decide Joeckel cant play on the right and his plan of having two dominant franchise OTs is done, we have bigger problems than crappy trades.
Quote:Its the modern NFL man, OTs are pass blockers first.
If its a run play, you run block, if its a pass play, you pass block, if you have a weakness in either area youre going to be a liability. This idea of RTs being maulers and LTs being basketball players was never really accurate and now in the basketball on grass era, its even further from the truth.
I'm not accepting that Joeckel's mediocre performance so far is due all down to switching sides, he is a rookie, most rookies don't come in and light it up, its far more likely his struggles are connected to adjusting to the speed of the game rather than where he stands on the field. If a few games of a rookie season is all it took Caldwell to decide Joeckel cant play on the right and his plan of having two dominant franchise OTs is done, we have bigger problems than crappy trades.
Even though its more of a passing league, you still generally have bigger players at LDE than you do at RDE, so the meaner/ bigger/ stronger ORT is helpful than just putting finesse players on that side.
Quote:There are those that is for sure, but the exact opposite is also the case that some believe all decisions to be bad.
And my point is almost all decisions HAVE been bad. It's not normal to be as bad of a team as the Jags are.