Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Do the Ravens still have Oher?

 

Yes.

 

He'll be a free agent after this season, though.

There are a few more it would be nice to get rid of and pile up more draft picks..Lewis...MJD...Mincey

Two weeks ago, right after the Richardson trade to the Colts, I proposed that the Jags try to trade Monroe to Denver for a first rounder and additional pick or player. I had a hunch that this regime would not re-sign Monroe since they just drafted their left tackle of the future. Caldwell obviously did contact other teams about Monroe, but the best offer was what the Ravens gave him. This was a TERRIBLE decision. Monroe is 1 of your best 3 players and only 26 years old. So what if you overpay him next year. The offensive line, as we have seen the last two years, is as critical to a team's success as any other position including quarterback. If anyone disagrees, how do they explain the Giants and Steelers winless seasons with top tier quarterbacks? What are the chances that the 4th and 5th round picks they acquired will be any more than role players? If Caldwell were able to get even a 2nd and 3rd rounder, I would have been o.k.with the trade, but this is ridiculous. I do like his first draft class and hesitancy to pay big money for free agents, but this move makes no sense.

Oh well - we got a 4th and a 5th for Monroe.  Obviously Caldwell didn't think he was the best long-term fit in the scheme.  Once we get rid of the remaining dead weight on the roster next offseason (Mincey, Poz, Lewis) we'll have a ton of cap space to sign some decent mid-tier FA's to go with the 10 draft picks. 

We dont' know what went on behind the scenes.  Maybe baltimore was giving the best offer or maybe he agreed to move Monroe there because his wife is there.  I dunno but a 4th and 5th is better then zero.

Sick ... just sick.


 

Two ham sandwiches for a very good LT? Drafting a LT with the 2nd overall pick to replace the current good healthy young LT you already have? And we don't know if Joeckel will be as good as Monroe. Basically the Jags have thrown away the 2nd pick in the 2013 draft ... knowingly ... not by making a player evaluation mistake.


 

Caldwell is making Gene Smith look good by comparison.

Quote:Sick ... just sick.

 

Two ham sandwiches for a very good LT? Drafting a LT with the 2nd overall pick to replace the current good healthy young LT you already have? And we don't know if Joeckel will be as good as Monroe. Basically the Jags have thrown away the 2nd pick in the 2013 draft ... knowingly ... not by making a player evaluation mistake.

 

Caldwell is making Gene Smith look good by comparisonI

If Monroe would have walked at the end of the season we would have gotten nothing...maybe a comp pick. I think this is a solid trade..2 picks instead of the zero we would have gotten....

yeah, so that happened. 

 

The best spin:  Monroe was leaving anyways, so at least we picked up 2 draft picks that will turn out to be successfull starrters because Caldwell is a very good evaluator of talent. (We can hope)

 

Reality:  Monroe was probably gonna cost more than we as an organization are willing to pay, so might as well get 2 picks that are likely to be used as depth for a couple seasons before they are washed out of the league.

 

The worst spin:  We just lost a potential corner stone of our team's O-Line that would help protect our franchise QB for 2 busts.

Monroe was not suited to the zoneblocking scheme. We tried, but it's time to salvage any remaining value from the Gene era

Quote:If Monroe would have walked at the end of the season we would have gotten nothing...maybe a comp pick. I think this is a solid trade..2 picks instead of the zero we would have gotten....

 

We also lost 12 games from Monroe, not that keeping the QB alive matters considering none will be on the team next year. And Monroe could have been franchised, so that's another 16 games even if the Jags couldn't get him to agree to a long-term contract.


 

Whenever someone claimed that So-And-So was a bust, a lot of Gene defenders replied that one shouldn't expect anything from picks after round 3. Gene 2.0 just got two "Shouldn't Expect Anythings" for a good starting LT and the only OL'man we had grading out positive on PFF.


For reference, here are the Jags 4th and 5th round picks through the years. There are a few good players, and a lot of garbage.

 

Ace Sanders

Denard Robinson

 
Brandon Marshall

 
Cecil Shorts

Chris Prosinski

Rod Issac

 
Larry Hart

Austin Lane

 
Mike Thomas

Jarret Dillard

 
Thomas Williams

Trae Williams

 
Brian Smith

Uche Nwaneri

Josh Gattis

Derek Landri

 
Brent Hawkins

 
Alvin Pearman

Gerald Sensabaugh

 
Anthony Maddox

Josh Scobee

Ernest Wilford

Chris Thompson

Sean Bubin

 
George Wrighster

Labrandon Toefield

 
David Garrard

Chris Luzar

 
David Leaverton

 
Joey Chutz

Kiwaukee Thomas

 
Kevin Landolt

Jason Craft

 
Tavian Banks

Harry Deligianis

John Wade

 
Seth Payne

David Jones

 
Reggie Barlow

Jimmy Hearndon

 
Rob Johnson

Mike Thompson

Ryan Christopherson

Thanks for listing all the Jags 4th and 5th rounders. This shows how bad a trade this was. Giving up a top 10 left tackle who is 26 for 2 guys who will end up being role players, at best, is not smart move no matter how one spins it.

Quote: 

We also lost 12 games from Monroe, not that keeping the QB alive matters considering none will be on the team next year. And Monroe could have been franchised, so that's another 16 games even if the Jags couldn't get him to agree to a long-term contract.


 

Whenever someone claimed that So-And-So was a bust, a lot of Gene defenders replied that one shouldn't expect anything from picks after round 3. Gene 2.0 just got two "Shouldn't Expect Anythings" for a good starting LT and the only OL'man we had grading out positive on PFF.


For reference, here are the Jags 4th and 5th round picks through the years. There are a few good players, and a lot of garbage.

 

12 games that he wasn't going to make a difference in.

 

So you'd rather franchise him and pay him huge bucks instead of moving Luke to LT (where he's more comfortable) and finding someone at RT now (when we're going to be hopefully drafting a franchise QB) for a lot less, leaving more room to spend money on other parts (some of which will probably be the Offensive line)

 

Calling Caldwell Gene 2.0 at this point is both premature and immature. This isn't a Gene Smith type move at all.  Yes, we got late round picks for an LT.  It's more than the Cardinals got for Levi Brown.  Considering Monroe is in a contract year, and hasn't been playing as well as he has in the past, now was a time to deal him.

 

Monroe dips in quality next year after getting a big contract ala Marcedes Lewis, we pay him big bucks, and you'd be complaining that we franchised him.  

 

We didn't get much out of the trade -- but considering they were planning on letting Monroe walk at the end of the season rather than franchising him -- we at least got something.  It's not ideal -- but who knows what Dave will do with those picks.  Maybe we trade up with those picks.  Maybe we trade back into the 1st, or 2nd, or even 3rd.  There's nothing that says Caldwell can't trade those picks to get an earlier pick.  Maybe he's pushing for other deals so he'll have plenty of ammunition to trade ahead of someone and get somebody who's really good when the time is right.  

Quote:12 games that he wasn't going to make a difference in.

 

So you'd rather franchise him and pay him huge bucks instead of moving Luke to LT (where he's more comfortable) and finding someone at RT now (when we're going to be hopefully drafting a franchise QB) for a lot less, leaving more room to spend money on other parts (some of which will probably be the Offensive line)

 

Calling Caldwell Gene 2.0 at this point is both premature and immature. This isn't a Gene Smith type move at all.  Yes, we got late round picks for an LT.  It's more than the Cardinals got for Levi Brown.  Considering Monroe is in a contract year, and hasn't been playing as well as he has in the past, now was a time to deal him.

 

Monroe dips in quality next year after getting a big contract ala Marcedes Lewis, we pay him big bucks, and you'd be complaining that we franchised him.  

 

We didn't get much out of the trade -- but considering they were planning on letting Monroe walk at the end of the season rather than franchising him -- we at least got something.  It's not ideal -- but who knows what Dave will do with those picks.  Maybe we trade up with those picks.  Maybe we trade back into the 1st, or 2nd, or even 3rd.  There's nothing that says Caldwell can't trade those picks to get an earlier pick.  Maybe he's pushing for other deals so he'll have plenty of ammunition to trade ahead of someone and get somebody who's really good when the time is right.  

 

Monroe was arguably our best player. He certainly has been through the first four games. Joeckel is still an unknown, but hasn't distinguished himself so far at RT. If he can't play well at a position where he isn't 'comfortable' then how good is he going to be?


Would Monroe slack off after getting franchised? Doubtful, since he'd still need a new contract. I'd be disappointed if the Jags franchised him and he then slacked off, but it would have no long-term ramifications.


 

And are you really arguing that it's good to package picks and move up? Was that based on the Gabbert package, or the Rackley package, or the Harvey package?


 

One more time ... the Jags just traded their current BEST PLAYER for essentially nothing. I agree about Gene 2.0. Calling Caldwell Gene 2.0 is unfair to Gene Smith, who at least got a 5th round pick for Mike Thomas.

Quote:Monroe was arguably our best player. He certainly has been through the first four games. Joeckel is still an unknown, but hasn't distinguished himself so far at RT. If he can't play well at a position where he isn't 'comfortable' then how good is he going to be?


Would Monroe slack off after getting franchised? Doubtful, since he'd still need a new contract. I'd be disappointed if the Jags franchised him and he then slacked off, but it would have no long-term ramifications.


 

And are you really arguing that it's good to package picks and move up? Was that based on the Gabbert package, or the Rackley package, or the Harvey package?


 

One more time ... the Jags just traded their current BEST PLAYER for essentially nothing. I agree about Gene 2.0. Calling Caldwell Gene 2.0 is unfair to Gene Smith, who at least got a 5th round pick for Mike Thomas.

 

Monroe might not slack off, but he might just regress.  And a franchise tag is expensive.  

 

Yes, cause those are the only times teams have ever moved up.  You're the one complaining about the picks being 4th and 5th rounders.  

 

Oh and look at that!  How cute.  You were mocking Gene Smith defenders, now you are one.  Yeah, we got a 5th rounder for Thomas -- it was a 5th rounder this year.  Not last.  That means waiting an extra year on the return.  And I thought 5th rounders were useless anyway? 

Rob Johnson we traded for a first

I predict that by tomorrow we'll have people claiming that Eugene Monroe is an All Pro and potential league MVP.

Quote:Monroe might not slack off, but he might just regress.  And a franchise tag is expensive.  

 

Yes, cause those are the only times teams have ever moved up.  You're the one complaining about the picks being 4th and 5th rounders.  

 

Oh and look at that!  How cute.  You were mocking Gene Smith defenders, now you are one.  Yeah, we got a 5th rounder for Thomas -- it was a 5th rounder this year.  Not last.  That means waiting an extra year on the return.  And I thought 5th rounders were useless anyway? 

 

Any player might regress. Based on that is your reccomendation to never franchise a player or sign a player to a second contract?


 

I'm not defending Gene Smith. He was one of the worst GMs this millenium (Cleveland Browns GMs excluded). It's just that Caldwell has been worse. Right now I'd rather have TMD as the Jags GM.

Quote:I predict that by tomorrow we'll have people claiming that Eugene Monroe is an All Pro and potential league MVP.

 

No, but he was a top-ten LT and the Jags best player through the first four games (admittedly that says more about the other 52).


 

I predicted Monroe to be gone next season, partly because of my low opinion of Caldwell.  I'm not happy that I turned out to be right.

Malabar, unless you have a crystal ball, we can't say a GM is good or bad not even a year into his job. There were many praising Gene two years in and look where that ended up. I have no doubt Caldwell has a plan and one which you may disagree with. Obviously Monroe at this point was no longer in their future. We could have franchised him, if Caldwell wanted him, but he didn't, that is why he was traded. You may not like his approach or his aggressiveness, but declaring him worse then one of if not the worst GM in the last decade this early his nothing more then a fan mad because he isn't doing it "his way".

Quote:Any player might regress. Based on that is your reccomendation to never franchise a player or sign a player to a second contract?


 

I'm not defending Gene Smith. He was one of the worst GMs this millenium (Cleveland Browns GMs excluded). It's just that Caldwell has been worse. Right now I'd rather have TMD as the Jags GM.

 

Yes, any player might regress.  And Monroe hasn't been performing as well in this scheme (per your favorite source: PFF)

 

<p style="margin-left:40px;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"><a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/MatthewFairburn' title="External link">Matthew Fairburn‏<span style="color:rgb(187,187,187);">@MatthewFairburn</span></a>

For what it's worth, only eight left tackles have a worse rating than Eugene Monroe's -3.6 season rating on Pro Football Focus.

 

 

How can you say Caldwell has been worse when he's had 1

  offseason to do anything?

 

Man, I guess if we judge Gene Smith by just his first year, excellent GM.  10/10.  Bring him back.