Quote:Both Monroe and Joeckel are over 300 lbs. Neither is strictly a finesse player.
But if that were true, then Caldwell drafted Joeckel knowing that he wasn't suited to play RT, and that by adding Joeckel the Jags were just using the #2 pick in the draft to break even at LT.
Or Caldwell didn't know Joeckel wasn't suited to play RT. That doesn't reflect any better on Caldwell.
Understood. As said, I think the entire situation could have been managed better. I have said that on several occasions now. I am not happy with the return for Monroe, nor the execution of the whole thing.
I don't see Joeckel as breaking even with Monroe. I could be proven wrong later, but I think Joeckel is a future All-pro at the OLT position. I also don't see either Monroe or Joeckel as good fits at ORT. JMO.
Lane Johnson, (4th overall) who was also moved to the ORT out of his normal OLT position is also struggling.
Quote: nor the execution of the whole thing.
SInce you have a working knowledge of how the whole thing went down, right? Are you dating Caldwell's secretary or something?
I'm just saying - you can't really bash a process that you know next to nothing about.
i guess what frustrates me the most of this entire thing, isn't that he was traded, but the report that came out the following day saying the browns would have been interested in the trade HAD THEY HAD KNOWN that he was available. It seems like we didn't even try to shop him, just took the first phonecall and ran with it.
But they were MAGIC beans!
Quote:i guess what frustrates me the most of this entire thing, isn't that he was traded, but the report that came out the following day saying the browns would have been interested in the trade HAD THEY HAD KNOWN that he was available. It seems like we didn't even try to shop him, just took the first phonecall and ran with it.
....And then the report came out today that the Browns made an offer and it was less than the Ravens. (O'halloran -jacksonville.com/ Times-Union)
Quote:Monroe wasn't Caldwells investment. If they weren't going to sign him, then making the trade is the only option. Of course, I don't know that answer, but based on what they did, it does not look like they were going to resign him.
And this is where your opinion starts to lose credibility. If we upgrade from 10-15 LT to top 3 LT, then it is a fantastic return on the investment. You made a major upgrade and get two picks in return.
I was disappointed when I heard he didn't shop him around. That is something I don't get.
But that works both ways. If you upgrade from a 10-15 top left tackle to top 3 LT (if he even achieve's this level) and you downgrade from a top 15-20 RT to "shouldn't be starting in this league" RT what did you really improve? The whole thing washes out.
Quote:SInce you have a working knowledge of how the whole thing went down, right? Are you dating Caldwell's secretary or something?
I'm just saying - you can't really bash a process that you know next to nothing about.
don't be snark. Enough info came out such as it being reported that the Jags weren't shopping Monroe until the Ravens called. Then they made the deal with them quickly. There was no reason that they couldn't have waited a while and tried a more broad shopping of Monroe....the deadline isn't for almost a month....
Also as I said earlier, they could have also avoided this whole mess and dealt him at the draft.
I just think there were other/ better ways to handle the whole thing rather than how we ultimately did.
Quote:don't be snark.
OK. That's one of the most hypocritical things I've ever seen you write, but I'll make an effort if you will. :thumbsup:
Quote:....And then the report came out today that the Browns made an offer and it was less than the Ravens. (O'halloran -jacksonville.com/ Times-Union)
how do the browns come out and say they didn't know that Monroe was avalable, then a report comes out countering that saying they offered less. Well if that is true it does seem like we got the best value for him if it was even less than that.
Quote:OK. That's one of the most hypocritical things I've ever seen you write, but I'll make an effort if you will. :thumbsup:
If I was being that way to you, and you responded in kind, thats one thing....I'd have no problem, eye for an eye
Quote:how do the browns come out and say they didn't know that Monroe was avalable, then a report comes out countering that saying they offered less. Well if that is true it does seem like we got the best value for him if it was even less than that.
http://profootballzone.com/nfl/report-br...ball+Zone)
<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/ryanohalloran'>
Ryan O'Halloran
@<b>ryanohalloran</b></a><a class="" href='https://twitter.com/ryanohalloran/status/386148554839834624' title="8:19 AM - 4 Oct 13">9h</a>
<p class="" style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(245,245,245);">Per Browns saying they didn't know Monroe was available, they called <a class="" href='https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Jaguars&src=hash'>#<b>Jaguars</b></a> before trade w/ Ravens was done. Offer wasn't as good.
Quote:If I was being that way to you, and you responded in kind, thats one thing....I'd have no problem, eye for an eye
So I should just forget about the 237 other times you've been that way with me and the 7,000 times I've seen you interact that way with others here?
Or are you just saying it's OK for you to do it first - but I can't?
Like I said (genuinely) - I'll gladly make the effort not to be snarky with you if you'll do the same.
Quote:So I should just forget about the 237 other times you've been that way with me and the 7,000 times I've seen you interact that way with others here?
Or are you just saying it's OK for you to do it first - but I can't?
Like I said (genuinely) - I'll gladly make the effort not to be snarky with you if you'll do the same.
I usually do it reactively not proactively...but whatever...
I don't mind trading barbs, cut ups and all that, but this time I thought we were having a serious discussion.,,,,poopyface!
Don't want to upset any of you who have Monroe as a top 5 LT, or top 10 LT, or top 15 LT, but in Peter King's MMQB column today he mentions that B. McKinnie was rated as the 30th LT by Pro Football Focus, and Monroe was rated as 27th.
Why can't some of you come to terms with the fact that Caldwell is building a new team - pretty much from the ground up. He got his LT in the 2013 draft. He got some picks to use to continue to build in 2014.
What's so hard to understand? I know - some of you love playing Junior GM, but that's not going to change anything.
Skip bayless said if any team that needs a qb passes on mazeil will pay for it!
Skip bayless said if any team that needs a qb passes on mazeil will pay for it!
Quote:Skip bayless said if any team that needs a qb passes on mazeil will pay for it!
Passing on a weak armed, frail little boy who has had elite protection and still looks to run after only making one read from a clean pocket? Sounds like he's going to do great in the NFL!
Quote:Don't want to upset any of you who have Monroe as a top 5 LT, or top 10 LT, or top 15 LT, but in Peter King's MMQB column today he mentions that B. McKinnie was rated as the 30th LT by Pro Football Focus, and Monroe was rated as 27th.
Why can't some of you come to terms with the fact that Caldwell is building a new team - pretty much from the ground up. He got his LT in the 2013 draft. He got some picks to use to continue to build in 2014.
What's so hard to understand? I know - some of you love playing Junior GM, but that's not going to change anything.
Do you really think there are 26 OTs better than Eugene Monroe? If you do, I don't know what to tell you.
I understand Caldwell wants to build from the ground up, but that doesnt mean throwing away one of the very few decent building blocks left over from before. The chance of
that ham sandwich those draft picks up being anywhere near as good as Monroe are very very slim.
Quote:how do the browns come out and say they didn't know that Monroe was avalable, then a report comes out countering that saying they offered less. Well if that is true it does seem like we got the best value for him if it was even less than that.
The more important question: If the browns saidd after the deal went down that they were also interested, what
other teams might also have been interested? And the most important question--would those other teams have offered more?
Not shopping around one of our most talented players? It's just layz GM'ing as I said I think in another thread. The first offer that's given you jump on?
Also, I never said this was anything other than a football decision. What I said is that it was a cheap move. Alot of football decisions are made based not only on the player but the "value". This implies that more than just his talent is involved in the decision making process. How many times have we heard that "this is a business". So to say that money is not factored into a football decision is to be naive.
What I meant by "cheap" is more of a mentality that has been going on with this organization for a long time. The idea that we can out smart the league and thus save money. At some point we all must realize that you have to ante up. You need skin in the game to get the payout. And yes, that means sometimes paying alot for players and coaches that are worth the money. Hopefully Caldwell will figure this stuff out.
If QB is the most important position, you should probably invest some money in those that protect the QB. That's how I see it, anyways.