Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Passing on a weak armed, frail little boy who has had elite protection and still looks to run after only making one read from a clean pocket? Sounds like he's going to do great in the NFL!

 

Weak armed ... maybe. Frail? He's been injured less than Bridgewater. Elite protection? No. He has an excellent LT, and that's about it. A lot like the Jags before Monroe was traded.

Quote:Don't want to upset any of you who have Monroe as a top 5 LT, or top 10 LT, or top 15 LT, but in Peter King's MMQB column today he mentions that B. McKinnie was rated as the 30th LT by Pro Football Focus, and Monroe was rated as 27th.

 

Why can't some of you come to terms with the fact that Caldwell is building a new team - pretty much from the ground up. He got his LT in the 2013 draft. He got some picks to use to continue to build in 2014.

 

What's so hard to understand? I know - some of you love playing Junior GM, but that's not going to change anything.

 

If he was rated 27th, it was going on solely this years play, because theres no way EM is only the 27th best starting OLT in this league. Not surprised though that you were unable to decipher that. 

 

Quote:Skip bayless said if any team that needs a qb passes on mazeil will pay for it!

 

As if Bayless is any sort of reputable football prognosticator...

 

Quote:Passing on a weak armed, frail little boy who has had elite protection and still looks to run after only making one read from a clean pocket? Sounds like he's going to do great in the NFL!

 

Sounds like many other so called "great" college prospects that the NFL has chewed up & spit out. 

 

Quote:Do you really think there are 26 OTs better than Eugene Monroe? If you do, I don't know what to tell you.

 

I understand Caldwell wants to build from the ground up, but that doesnt mean throwing away one of the very few decent building blocks left over from before. The chance of that ham sandwich those draft picks up being anywhere near as good as Monroe are very very slim.

 

I agree with the first sentence/ sentiment. 

 

As for the rest, I didn't have a problem with trading Monroe, my whole issue is the scant return. I think Joeckel will be a much better OLT than Monroe, ultimately a perennial top 5 OLT in the NFL - and I don't see Monroe being a good fit for ORT, and its a foolish Idea to pay Monroe big bucks just to give us average as he plays a new position that he's less suited for. Better off just getting a player who's regular position is ORT. That said, that doesn't mean you take a weak trade offer just to expedite the whole process. 

Quote:I think Joeckel will be a much better OLT than Monroe, ultimately a perennial top 5 OLT in the NFL. 

 

What have you seen from Joeckel that makes you think this?

Ravens- Hey Jags wanna trade Monroe, we will give you a 4 & 5.

 

Caldwell- Lemme think about it Ozz........Makes 30 two minute phones calls to other GMs gets no better offer.

 

 

Two hours later, shopping around is done. Trade is carried out.

Quote:What have you seen from Joeckel that makes you think this?

 

I've seen him dominate some of the best SEC defensive talent there was in college. Yes, I know....thats only college, but thats also all we had to go on before selecting Tony Boselli in 1995 as well. 

 

IMO, Joeckel was THE best OLT in last years draft and the Jags were very fortunate that KC wound up passing on him. 

Quote:I've seen him dominate some of the best SEC defensive talent there was in college. Yes, I know....thats only college, but thats also all we had to go on before selecting Tony Boselli in 1995 also. 

 

IMO, Joeckel was THE best OLT in last years draft and the Jags were very fortunate that KC wound up passing on him. 

 

Boselli had already made a name for himself before his final college season. He was rated the #1 player in the PAC-10 that year. Not just the #1 OT, the #1 player. Joeckel was no Boselli at the college level.


 

And Monroe was the best OLT in the 2009 draft. That's not just an opinion (although it was my opinion at the time), that's for certain at this point.

Quote:Boselli had already made a name for himself before his final college season. He was rated the #1 player in the PAC-10 that year. Not just the #1 OT, the #1 player. Joeckel was no Boselli at the college level.


 

And Monroe was the best OLT in the 2009 draft. That's not just an opinion (although it was my opinion at the time), that's for certain at this point.

 

Joeckel >> Monroe as on OLT prospect. 

 

Monroe's ranking of #1 Tackle that offseason was somewhat fluid. He wouldn't have gone as low as 8th overall, and have gone 2nd or was it 3rd?? (Didn't MOOBS also get drafted before him?)...out of the Tackles in that draft. Jason Smith flat out stunk in the pro's and went ahead of Monroe. 

Quote:If he was rated 27th, it was going on solely this years play, because theres no way EM is only the 27th best starting OLT in this league. Not surprised though that you were unable to decipher that. 

 

 

As if Bayless is any sort of reputable football prognosticator...

 

 

Sounds like many other so called "great" college prospects that the NFL has chewed up & spit out. 

 

 

I agree with the first sentence/ sentiment. 

 

As for the rest, I didn't have a problem with trading Monroe, my whole issue is the scant return. I think Joeckel will be a much better OLT than Monroe, ultimately a perennial top 5 OLT in the NFL - and I don't see Monroe being a good fit for ORT, and its a foolish Idea to pay Monroe big bucks just to give us average as he plays a new position that he's less suited for. Better off just getting a player who's regular position is ORT. That said, that doesn't mean you take a weak trade offer just to expedite the whole process. 

 

My issue is the value as well, everyone has their value and we sold way short on Monroe's, if we could have got a 2nd for him I would be ok with it but we got a ham sandwich. People are trying to justify this failure to get a decent return by suggesting there are a myriad of reasons Monroe couldnt stay any longer which is false, you find a way to use good players.

 

Lets assume for a moment you're right and I am wrong about the differences between LT and RT. If as you say Joeckel will be a great LT (he looks like a Monroe clone to me and I see him having a similar career which isnt a bad thing), he would still be at least decent RT wont he? Because of the CBA that is how he is getting paid, so we would be getting financial value and if it became clear in the next few years that Joeckel would be the next Tony Boselli and we are holding him back being on the right we make the move then, whats the worst that will happen? We get less than a 4th round pick for him? Big whoop.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Jags still have 12 games left, right?  I mean, they haven't lost all 16 already have they?  The way some posters talk, you would think it has already happened.

Quote:My issue is the value as well, everyone has their value and we sold way short on Monroe's, if we could have got a 2nd for him I would be ok with it but we got a ham sandwich. People are trying to justify this failure to get a decent return by suggesting there are a myriad of reasons Monroe couldnt stay any longer which is false, you find a way to use good players.

 

Lets assume for a moment you're right and I am wrong about the differences between LT and RT. If as you say Joeckel will be a great LT (he looks like a Monroe clone to me and I see him having a similar career which isnt a bad thing), he would still be at least decent RT wont he? Because of the CBA that is how he is getting paid, so we would be getting financial value and if it became clear in the next few years that Joeckel would be the next Tony Boselli and we are holding him back being on the right we make the move then, whats the worst that will happen? We get less than a 4th round pick for him? Big whoop.

 

Lol, now you are using malabar's reference.  He may not have been worth a 2nd round on the market.  And Monroe was leaving unless we franchise him next year or paid him top 5 dollars which he isn't worth.  Let also look at both sides.  

 

I do agree with the criticism of Caldwell not letting the market tell him what Monroe was worth.  It seems like this was rushed.  I wish he had been shopping him himself instead of a team calling him.  This criticism I agree with.  Again, maybe that was the market for Monroe, but it doesn't seem like he tested the market well enough to be sure.

 

You don't draft a guy at #2 to be a decent RT.  You draft him to be a great LT.  

 

What's the worst that could happen?  You tie up a ton of money in a player that isn't as good as the guy you drafted (who is getting paid less).  It isn't about cheapness.  It is about allocating dollars in the right place so you can build a team.  

 

We will all have a better sense of where things are going in next year off season and free agency period.  This off season and next will look completely different IMO.  Will Jag fans have enough patience?  We shall see...

Quote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Jags still have 12 games left, right? I mean, they haven't lost all 16 already have they? The way some posters talk, you would think it has already happened.

They pretty much have. To even have a chance to win a game it would help to not be down 20 points by halftime.

Quote:They pretty much have. To even have a chance to win a game it would help to not be down 20 points by halftime.

 

Agreed.  But, that is why they play the games.  We could get better.  I mean, it is possible.  And we could get worse or we could stay about the same.  But my point remains, it has only been 4 games.  Malabar is talking as if the season has already been played out.

Quote:Lol, now you are using malabar's reference.  He may not have been worth a 2nd round on the market.  And Monroe was leaving unless we franchise him next year or paid him top 5 dollars which he isn't worth.  Let also look at both sides.  

 

I do agree with the criticism of Caldwell not letting the market tell him what Monroe was worth.  It seems like this was rushed.  I wish he had been shopping him himself instead of a team calling him.  This criticism I agree with.  Again, maybe that was the market for Monroe, but it doesn't seem like he tested the market well enough to be sure.

 

You don't draft a guy at #2 to be a decent RT.  You draft him to be a great LT.  

 

What's the worst that could happen?  You tie up a ton of money in a player that isn't as good as the guy you drafted (who is getting paid less).  It isn't about cheapness.  It is about allocating dollars in the right place so you can build a team.  

 

We will all have a better sense of where things are going in next year off season and free agency period.  This off season and next will look completely different IMO.  Will Jag fans have enough patience?  We shall see...

 

i believe Monroe would be worth franchising. Paying a top-ten OT a top-five salary with no long-term obligations is not an outrageous price.


 

But even if you think Monroe is worth less, he's not garbage. Caldwell painted himself into this corner by drafting a guy who apparently can ONLY play one position, and it was one of only three where the Jags had a good player already in position.

Quote:i believe Monroe would be worth franchising. Paying a top-ten OT a top-five salary with no long-term obligations is not an outrageous price.


 

But even if you think Monroe is worth less, he's not garbage. Caldwell painted himself into this corner by drafting a guy who apparently can ONLY play one position, and it was one of only three where the Jags had a good player already in position.

 

He had one top 10 season.  This year he has been middle of the pack.  

 

Caldwell didn't paint himself in a corner.  He gave himself flexibility.  He actually did the complete opposite of what you just stated.  And he picked the best player on their board during the draft (highest rated player).  

Sure, it would have been great to get more in return for Monroe, but Caldwell does (or at least should) have a long-term plan.  He's shown the guts to make the hard decisions and get rid of the bad contracts that Gene Smith handed out.  I would expect MORE of that to happen this offseason, with Lewis, Poz, Mincey gone.  With several other players not returning like MJD, Meester, and Babin, we'll have a ton of cap space to fill some holes, then 10 draft picks to fill some more.

 

This isn't a 1 or 2 year rebuild.  It's at least a 3 year project to completely overhaul the roster and make us competitive for the long haul. 

Quote:He had one top 10 season.  This year he has been middle of the pack.  

 

Caldwell didn't paint himself in a corner.  He gave himself flexibility.  He actually did the complete opposite of what you just stated.  And he picked the best player on their board during the draft (highest rated player).  

 

What flexibility is that? The choice of A) letting our best (or 2nd best if Joeckel pans out) OL walk after the season, B) trading him for a bag of beans, or C) franchising or re-signing Monroe and continuing to play Joeckel out of position. Some flexibility there.


 

Given those choices, I too would pick 'B', but hat's like choosing which whip to be beaten with.


 

Edit:  Hmm, I can't type a 'B' followed by a right parenthesis.

Quote:What flexibility is that? The choice of A) letting our best (or 2nd best if Joeckel pans out) OL walk after the season, B) trading him for a bag of beans, or C) franchising or re-signing Monroe and continuing to play Joeckel out of position. Some flexibility there.


Given those choices, I too would pick 'B', but hat's like choosing which whip to be beaten with.


Edit: Hmm, I can't type a 'B' followed by a right parenthesis.

Seeing how Monroe plays, resign him if he makes the step you hope and see if Luke can make transition to RT. Monroe hasn't played as well as he did last year, Luke struggling at RT. Flexibility means you have options which the scenario gave us multiple options.

Quote:Seeing how Monroe plays, resign him if he makes the step you hope and see if Luke can make transition to RT. Monroe hasn't played as well as he did last year, Luke struggling at RT. Flexibility means you have options which the scenario gave us multiple options.

 

We arent even half way through the season, how is that enough to establish if Luke can play RT or if Monroe is worth a new contract?

 

Monroe has played as well as anyone could expect given that the guys inside him are wet toilet paper, his RB is a husk of his former self and his QBs are so poor defenses have 0 respect for them and blitz with no fear.

Edit: messed up this post

Quote: 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MalabarJag" data-cid="17596" data-time="1380985126">
i believe Monroe would be worth franchising. Paying a top-ten OT a top-five salary with no long-term obligations is not an outrageous price.

But even if you think Monroe is worth less, he's not garbage. Caldwell painted himself into this corner by drafting a guy who apparently can ONLY play one position, and it was one of only three where the Jags had a good player already in position.

 


</blockquote>
 

Especially considering the fact that when we get our qb next year, it'll be beneficial to his development to have 2 good tackles protecting him, especially with the questionable state of the rest of the line. Now we have a single good player on the line and the rest is garbage, and something tells me that 4th and 5th round pick isn't going to help too much in that aspect.