Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(04-04-2018, 08:56 AM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-03-2018, 06:42 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Which seasons do you think he looked every bit as good or better than Arob in?

I said nothing about season stats.  Looking at it objectively, player to player, he did look every bit as good a player.  Can you explain why he was a higher graded prospect than Robinson?  Note, I said explain.  Not excuse.

I think you'd struggle to find any colts fans who would even agree with you on that. 

What grading are you talking about? Who did the grading?

At first I thought you meant draft position, but then realized Moncrief was drafted later. What grades are you on about and why do they matter more than 3 seasons of play in the NFL

(04-04-2018, 10:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-03-2018, 10:53 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]This is funny to me.  

NOBODY would have suggested that Moncrief had been just as good if not better than Arob on here if Arob has stayed with us.

If Moncrief was on some other team nobody would say it either. Take off the blinkers.

There were about a dozen folks here pretty high on Moncreif when he came out in the draft and hoping he may be a Jag. 


Not a stretch for those folks to think Moncreif has the skill set to play on a similar level. The QB situation in Indy hasn't exactly helped the kid.  

He's got a lot to prove to be "better than A-Rob" in my book, but I think it's quite feasible that he could do as much, or more at the X than A-Rob did in the 2016 season.

Yeah he had a lot of buzz in the draft community after his combine. Same with Arob too.    

He's got a lot to prove that hes just as good as Arob too. 2016 Arob had everything going against him, 2015 Arob had everything going for him. The truth is somewhere inbetween the two and that's a level that Moncrief hasn't reached yet. 

I hope he does. Just seems odd we are revising history for a newly signed player.  I don't see why some random draft grade proves anything.

(04-04-2018, 11:12 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 10:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]There were about a dozen folks here pretty high on Moncreif when he came out in the draft and hoping he may be a Jag. 

...

...
I hope he does. Just seems odd we are revising history for a newly signed player.  I don't see why some random draft grade proves anything.

While I'm not personally going as far as revising history, it's easy to look at a number of his highlights and come away thinking Moncreif's got what it takes to produce in similar fashion to A-Rob. 

Of course - you're right that the production simply hasn't happened yet to confirm these expectations. 

You and I have varying expectations at this point. Others are all over the map with their own as well it would appear.

(04-04-2018, 11:36 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 11:12 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]...
I hope he does. Just seems odd we are revising history for a newly signed player.  I don't see why some random draft grade proves anything.

While I'm not personally going as far as revising history, it's easy to look at a number of his highlights and come away thinking Moncreif's got what it takes to produce in similar fashion to A-Rob. 

Of course - you're right that the production simply hasn't happened yet to confirm these expectations. 

You and I have varying expectations at this point. Others are all over the map with their own as well it would appear.

I think in this offense will have 4 receivers (barring injury) with over 500 yards but none as the #1 guy. Could see how Moncrief could have a very good year for us while still looking pedestrian in the box score.  

Really like Moncrief+Dede+Cole as deep threats to take advantage of. I guess I see Moncrief as an auxiliary piece like the other guys rather than our defacto Arob type one.

(04-04-2018, 11:02 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 08:56 AM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]I said nothing about season stats.  Looking at it objectively, player to player, he did look every bit as good a player.  Can you explain why he was a higher graded prospect than Robinson?  Note, I said explain.  Not excuse.

I think you'd struggle to find any colts fans who would even agree with you on that. 

What grading are you talking about? Who did the grading?

At first I thought you meant draft position, but then realized Moncrief was drafted later. What grades are you on about and why do they matter more than 3 seasons of play in the NFL

Wow, you've been truly triggered over this.  Let's try to hold back just a smidgeon of the homerism, if you would.

ARob didn't become a somebody until just prior to his injury.  He was good and getting better, but nothing special.  2015 was a special year for him, but doesn't explain why 2016 wasn't -  particularly when he had the exact same number of targets in both years (151.)  I, and most objective observers, felt he was going to be come special due to things we were hearing about practices, etc. going into the 2017 season.  But, unfortunately for him, he was injured prior to being able to prove he was taking that next step and becoming someone special.

Moncreif looked really good from the start, but that was his issue.  He missed a lot of play on and off like Marquise Lee for us.  He, too, wasn't able to take that next step and prove he indeed was special.

Talk about revisionist history... the teal glasses do that better than anything, apparently.  We almost always tend to overrate the players we like.  It's natural, I guess.  But that doesn't make it true.

Always try to remember, facts don't care about our feelings.

Moncreif
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/d...id=2543614

Arob
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/a...id=2543509

Robinson is exactly what you want in a #2/possession receiver.  On our club he was forced to be #1, which was somewhat a misfit.  He still did well at it, which speaks well of him.  But, we couldn't offer the kind of money he wanted to continue to have a #2 guy play #1.  We need a true #1.  We may already have him.  We'll see how it all shakes out.  I wouldn't be surprised if we draft someone to compete in the #1 silo.

Moncrief is a #1 and played like it when he was on the field.  He's going to be given his shot to earn it.  His incentive is it being a "prove it" year.

This certainly will be something Jags fans will be keeping an eye on.  And as always, the results, not our feelings, will be the judge.

(04-04-2018, 11:12 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 10:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]There were about a dozen folks here pretty high on Moncreif when he came out in the draft and hoping he may be a Jag. 


Not a stretch for those folks to think Moncreif has the skill set to play on a similar level. The QB situation in Indy hasn't exactly helped the kid.  

He's got a lot to prove to be "better than A-Rob" in my book, but I think it's quite feasible that he could do as much, or more at the X than A-Rob did in the 2016 season.

Yeah he had a lot of buzz in the draft community after his combine. Same with Arob too.    

He's got a lot to prove that hes just as good as Arob too. 2016 Arob had everything going against him, 2015 Arob had everything going for him. The truth is somewhere inbetween the two and that's a level that Moncrief hasn't reached yet. 

I hope he does. Just seems odd we are revising history for a newly signed player.  I don't see why some random draft grade proves anything.

Perhaps instead of "revising history," what's truly happening here is we're projecting the future - a future we can't see.  We never saw what ARob was about to become.  We have yet to see where he picks things up in 2018 coming back from a major injury, and where he does or doesn't ascend from wherever that starting point will be.  We can't assume he'll be starting at the same position he was in 2017.  It may be close... or it may not be close at all, and not in a good way.  First year, most guys have to take time off due to fluid, etc.

(04-04-2018, 01:18 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 11:02 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I think you'd struggle to find any colts fans who would even agree with you on that. 

What grading are you talking about? Who did the grading?

At first I thought you meant draft position, but then realized Moncrief was drafted later. What grades are you on about and why do they matter more than 3 seasons of play in the NFL

Wow, you've been truly triggered over this.  Let's try to hold back just a smidgeon of the homerism, if you would.

ARob didn't become a somebody until just prior to his injury.  He was good and getting better, but nothing special.  2015 was a special year for him, but doesn't explain why 2016 wasn't -  particularly when he had the exact same number of targets in both years (151.)  I, and most objective observers, felt he was going to be come special due to things we were hearing about practices, etc. going into the 2017 season.  But, unfortunately for him, he was injured prior to being able to prove he was taking that next step and becoming someone special.

Moncreif looked really good from the start, but that was his issue.  He missed a lot of play on and off like Marquise Lee for us.  He, too, wasn't able to take that next step and prove he indeed was special.

Talk about revisionist history... the teal glasses do that better than anything, apparently.  We almost always tend to overrate the players we like.  It's natural, I guess.  But that doesn't make it true.

Always try to remember, facts don't care about our feelings.

Moncreif
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/d...id=2543614

Arob
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/a...id=2543509

Robinson is exactly what you want in a #2/possession receiver.  On our club he was forced to be #1, which was somewhat a misfit.  He still did well at it, which speaks well of him.  But, we couldn't offer the kind of money he wanted to continue to have a #2 guy play #1.  We need a true #1.  We may already have him.  We'll see how it all shakes out.  I wouldn't be surprised if we draft someone to compete in the #1 silo.

Moncrief is a #1 and played like it when he was on the field.  He's going to be given his shot to earn it.  His incentive is it being a "prove it" year.

This certainly will be something Jags fans will be keeping an eye on.  And as always, the results, not our feelings, will be the judge.

LOL Played like a #1? He hasn't broken 800 yards in a season and yet he plays like a #1?

Your "feelings" are getting in the way because the results are that Moncreif has 1800 yards in his career while ARob had 1400 in 2015. Stop posting draft profiles because they mean absolutely nothing.

(04-04-2018, 01:18 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 11:02 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I think you'd struggle to find any colts fans who would even agree with you on that. 

What grading are you talking about? Who did the grading?

At first I thought you meant draft position, but then realized Moncrief was drafted later. What grades are you on about and why do they matter more than 3 seasons of play in the NFL

Wow, you've been truly triggered over this.  Let's try to hold back just a smidgeon of the homerism, if you would.

ARob didn't become a somebody until just prior to his injury.  He was good and getting better, but nothing special.  2015 was a special year for him, but doesn't explain why 2016 wasn't -  particularly when he had the exact same number of targets in both years (151.)  I, and most objective observers, felt he was going to be come special due to things we were hearing about practices, etc. going into the 2017 season.  But, unfortunately for him, he was injured prior to being able to prove he was taking that next step and becoming someone special.

Moncreif looked really good from the start, but that was his issue.  He missed a lot of play on and off like Marquise Lee for us.  He, too, wasn't able to take that next step and prove he indeed was special.

Talk about revisionist history... the teal glasses do that better than anything, apparently.  We almost always tend to overrate the players we like.  It's natural, I guess.  But that doesn't make it true.

Always try to remember, facts don't care about our feelings.

Moncreif
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/d...id=2543614

Arob
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/a...id=2543509

Robinson is exactly what you want in a #2/possession receiver.  On our club he was forced to be #1, which was somewhat a misfit.  He still did well at it, which speaks well of him.  But, we couldn't offer the kind of money he wanted to continue to have a #2 guy play #1.  We need a true #1.  We may already have him.  We'll see how it all shakes out.  I wouldn't be surprised if we draft someone to compete in the #1 silo.

Moncrief is a #1 and played like it when he was on the field.  He's going to be given his shot to earn it.  His incentive is it being a "prove it" year.

This certainly will be something Jags fans will be keeping an eye on.  And as always, the results, not our feelings, will be the judge.

Calling people triggered when they disagree with you is a meme at this point. And yes I am always accused of being a Jagaurs homer on here. 

Let's break this down. Arob had the same targets in 2015 Vs 2016 BUT (and this is the important part here) all targets are not the same. In 2016 we had a diabolical offense and Blake was playing like one of the worst QBs in football. In 2015 we had him playing v well and our passing attack was incredibly effective. Now Arob definitely played better in 2015 Vs 2016 , but you also have to remember the context it happened in. Use comparisons such as targets only matters if you know the context behind them. 

Moncrief has been a #2 receiver every year hes been with the colts and he actually lost snaps to guys like Chester Rogers in 2017. There's a reason for that. He had a top 10  QB  throwing to him for 2 seasons and he was still meh.  

It's hilarious (and quite cute) that you are using one person's draft grade as evidence of NFL performance. The reality is Moncrief was A) Drafted later for a reason and B) Hasn't performed as well as Arob. That's why the WR barren Colts let him go and why Arob signed a huge FA deal to be a #1 go to receiver.  

Colts fans think Arob is much better than Moncrief. The league thinks Arob is better than Moncrief.
Most fans think Arob is better than Moncrief. 
His production has been better too.

Unfortunately someone's draft grade isn't going to change that.  I hope Moncrief does great and I hope we don't regret Arob leaving , we just don't need to revise the history on both players to make us feel better.

(04-04-2018, 01:50 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 01:18 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]Moncrief is a #1 and played like it when he was on the field.  He's going to be given his shot to earn it.  His incentive is it being a "prove it" year.

This certainly will be something Jags fans will be keeping an eye on.  And as always, the results, not our feelings, will be the judge.

LOL Played like a #1? He hasn't broken 800 yards in a season and yet he plays like a #1?

Your "feelings" are getting in the way because the results are that Moncreif has 1800 yards in his career while ARob had 1400 in 2015. Stop posting draft profiles because they mean absolutely nothing.

Not my words you're addressing, but it seems like maybe you're confusing the analysis of a player and his traits/skillset with statistics. 

Regardless, I don't think Moncreif has to "play like a number one" in Jax.
He just has to play well and take advantage of having a different skill-set than the other guys on the roster. Especially when he gets those red-zone looks or jump-ball/sideline opportunities the others probably won't see as many of. 

Obviously - some of us think he's ready to do that. Many more doubt it.

(04-04-2018, 01:35 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 11:12 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah he had a lot of buzz in the draft community after his combine. Same with Arob too.    

He's got a lot to prove that hes just as good as Arob too. 2016 Arob had everything going against him, 2015 Arob had everything going for him. The truth is somewhere inbetween the two and that's a level that Moncrief hasn't reached yet. 

I hope he does. Just seems odd we are revising history for a newly signed player.  I don't see why some random draft grade proves anything.

Perhaps instead of "revising history," what's truly happening here is we're projecting the future - a future we can't see.  We never saw what ARob was about to become.  We have yet to see where he picks things up in 2018 coming back from a major injury, and where he does or doesn't ascend from wherever that starting point will be.  We can't assume he'll be starting at the same position he was in 2017.  It may be close... or it may not be close at all, and not in a good way.  First year, most guys have to take time off due to fluid, etc.

You called Moncrief a #1 when he's never at any point in his NFL career been one. That's projecting the future. I'm basing it on what we have seen so far i.e Arob outperforming Moncrief in the NFL

(04-04-2018, 01:56 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 01:50 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]LOL Played like a #1? He hasn't broken 800 yards in a season and yet he plays like a #1?

Your "feelings" are getting in the way because the results are that Moncreif has 1800 yards in his career while ARob had 1400 in 2015. Stop posting draft profiles because they mean absolutely nothing.

Not my words you're addressing, but it seems like maybe you're confusing the analysis of a player and his traits/skillset with statistics. 

Regardless, I don't think Moncreif has to "play like a number one" in Jax.
He just has to play well and take advantage of having a different skill-set than the other guys on the roster. Especially when he gets those red-zone looks or jump-ball/sideline opportunities the others probably won't see as many of. 

Obviously - some of us think he's ready to do that. Many more doubt it.

He very well may play well this season. I certainly hope he does.

But I don't know of anyone who has played like a #1 WR but can't crack 800 yards in 16 games. Results are what matters and this guy has been given every chance to produce and hasn't done anything with it. Especially when playing with an elite QB.

(04-04-2018, 01:58 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 01:35 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps instead of "revising history," what's truly happening here is we're projecting the future - a future we can't see.  We never saw what ARob was about to become.  We have yet to see where he picks things up in 2018 coming back from a major injury, and where he does or doesn't ascend from wherever that starting point will be.  We can't assume he'll be starting at the same position he was in 2017.  It may be close... or it may not be close at all, and not in a good way.  First year, most guys have to take time off due to fluid, etc.

You called Moncrief a #1 when he's never at any point in his NFL career been one. That's projecting the future. I'm basing it on what we have seen so far i.e Arob outperforming Moncrief in the NFL

A lot of football fans get this wrong.  They simply think it's the "best" receiver.

WR1 = X

#1 is the SE position.  The stud.

#2 is the Z or FL.  The zone beater/possession receiver.

That's not projection.  Those are the facts.

(04-04-2018, 02:03 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 01:58 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]You called Moncrief a #1 when he's never at any point in his NFL career been one. That's projecting the future. I'm basing it on what we have seen so far i.e Arob outperforming Moncrief in the NFL

A lot of football fans get this wrong.  They simply think it's the "best" receiver.

WR1 = X

#1 is the SE position.  The stud.

#2 is the Z or FL.  The zone beater/possession receiver.

That's not projection.  Those are the facts.

People use WR1 in different ways. Many (like myself) use WR1 as the best receiver. Others use it to designate position.  

Arob actually profiles better as your X receiver. He's a better route runner , better at contested catches and better at beating press. Moncrief is faster , but less of a threat as the "WR1".

(04-04-2018, 02:03 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 01:58 PM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]You called Moncrief a #1 when he's never at any point in his NFL career been one. That's projecting the future. I'm basing it on what we have seen so far i.e Arob outperforming Moncrief in the NFL

A lot of football fans get this wrong.  They simply think it's the "best" receiver.

WR1 = X

#1 is the SE position.  The stud.

#2 is the Z or FL.  The zone beater/possession receiver.

That's not projection.  Those are the facts.

So he's an X receiver who played like an X receiver. Got it. He still under performed considering he has yet to be consistent and actually produce as an X receiver.

He's got attributes but so do many other WRs. Moncreif isn't on ARobs level because he has yet to produce in this league.

ARob played a full season in 2016. Moncrief missed several games in each of the past two years which is why he's on a one-year prove it deal, but he had 15 starts (21 total games) making for a coparable stat line...

• Allen Robinson - 2016: 16 starts, 73 catches for 883 yards (12.1 yards per catch), 6 TDs and 1 fumble
  
• Donte Moncrief - 2016 and 2017: 15 starts, 56 catches for 698 yards (12.5 yards per catch), 9 TDs and 0 fumbles.
  

I won't say that Moncrief is better, but if he can tough out an entire season he doesn't appear that far behind if at all.

When looking at these stats, keep in mind that ARob was our go-to #1 guy. Now I've mentioned before that Moncrief plays the WR1 spot, but he was always second fiddle to TY Hilton.

(04-04-2018, 01:18 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 11:02 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]I think you'd struggle to find any colts fans who would even agree with you on that. 

What grading are you talking about? Who did the grading?

At first I thought you meant draft position, but then realized Moncrief was drafted later. What grades are you on about and why do they matter more than 3 seasons of play in the NFL

Wow, you've been truly triggered over this.  Let's try to hold back just a smidgeon of the homerism, if you would.

ARob didn't become a somebody until just prior to his injury.  He was good and getting better, but nothing special.  2015 was a special year for him, but doesn't explain why 2016 wasn't -  particularly when he had the exact same number of targets in both years (151.)  I, and most objective observers, felt he was going to be come special due to things we were hearing about practices, etc. going into the 2017 season.  But, unfortunately for him, he was injured prior to being able to prove he was taking that next step and becoming someone special.

Moncreif looked really good from the start, but that was his issue.  He missed a lot of play on and off like Marquise Lee for us.  He, too, wasn't able to take that next step and prove he indeed was special.

Talk about revisionist history... the teal glasses do that better than anything, apparently.  We almost always tend to overrate the players we like.  It's natural, I guess.  But that doesn't make it true.

Always try to remember, facts don't care about our feelings.

Moncreif
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/d...id=2543614

Arob
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/a...id=2543509

Robinson is exactly what you want in a #2/possession receiver.  On our club he was forced to be #1, which was somewhat a misfit.  He still did well at it, which speaks well of him.  But, we couldn't offer the kind of money he wanted to continue to have a #2 guy play #1.  We need a true #1.  We may already have him.  We'll see how it all shakes out.  I wouldn't be surprised if we draft someone to compete in the #1 silo.

Moncrief is a #1 and played like it when he was on the field.  He's going to be given his shot to earn it.  His incentive is it being a "prove it" year.

This certainly will be something Jags fans will be keeping an eye on.  And as always, the results, not our feelings, will be the judge.

Earlier in the thread, you indicated that Moncrief was viewed as the better prospect, and you get at it here by citing these scouting reports.

But better by whom?

For our purposes, the one person whose opinion counted at the time was Caldwell.

In 2014, Caldwell traded back up into the bottom of the 2nd round, and when he did, both Allen Robinson and Dante Moncrief were on the board.

Caldwell chose Robinson over Moncrief.

Is it possible that Caldwell liked Moncrief at the time?  Absolutely. 

Is it possible that Caldwell would have made the same trade up for Moncrief had Robinson been off the board?  Maybe.

But despite the pre draft NFL.com scouting reports you cite, NFL teams are not bound by those reports.  During the 2014 draft, NFL teams spoke on who they perceived to be the better prospect at the time.  Caldwell had a choice to make when both were on the board when he traded up to the bottom of the second round that year.  Once again, he chose Allen Robinson at pick 61.

Moncrief was selected almost a full round later, at the 90th overall pick.  Three other WRs were taken over Moncrief after Allen Robinson was selected.

Did the teams who passed on Moncrief make the right decision?  Who knows?

Might Moncrief end up being a more productive WR here than Robinson was?  I sure as hell hope so.

But unless I've missed something in the debate (a distinct possibility since this morning I only focused on the last couple of pages in this thread) I'm not sure what citing the NFL.com pre draft scouting reports does to advance your argument here.

(04-05-2018, 08:38 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-04-2018, 01:18 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, you've been truly triggered over this.  Let's try to hold back just a smidgeon of the homerism, if you would.

ARob didn't become a somebody until just prior to his injury.  He was good and getting better, but nothing special.  2015 was a special year for him, but doesn't explain why 2016 wasn't -  particularly when he had the exact same number of targets in both years (151.)  I, and most objective observers, felt he was going to be come special due to things we were hearing about practices, etc. going into the 2017 season.  But, unfortunately for him, he was injured prior to being able to prove he was taking that next step and becoming someone special.

Moncreif looked really good from the start, but that was his issue.  He missed a lot of play on and off like Marquise Lee for us.  He, too, wasn't able to take that next step and prove he indeed was special.

Talk about revisionist history... the teal glasses do that better than anything, apparently.  We almost always tend to overrate the players we like.  It's natural, I guess.  But that doesn't make it true.

Always try to remember, facts don't care about our feelings.

Moncreif
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/d...id=2543614

Arob
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/a...id=2543509

Robinson is exactly what you want in a #2/possession receiver.  On our club he was forced to be #1, which was somewhat a misfit.  He still did well at it, which speaks well of him.  But, we couldn't offer the kind of money he wanted to continue to have a #2 guy play #1.  We need a true #1.  We may already have him.  We'll see how it all shakes out.  I wouldn't be surprised if we draft someone to compete in the #1 silo.

Moncrief is a #1 and played like it when he was on the field.  He's going to be given his shot to earn it.  His incentive is it being a "prove it" year.

This certainly will be something Jags fans will be keeping an eye on.  And as always, the results, not our feelings, will be the judge.

Earlier in the thread, you indicated that Moncrief was viewed as the better prospect, and you get at it here by citing these scouting reports.

But better by whom?

For our purposes, the one person whose opinion counted at the time was Caldwell.

In 2014, Caldwell traded back up into the bottom of the 2nd round, and when he did, both Allen Robinson and Dante Moncrief were on the board.

Caldwell chose Robinson over Moncrief.

Is it possible that Caldwell liked Moncrief at the time?  Absolutely. 

Is it possible that Caldwell would have made the same trade up for Moncrief had Robinson been off the board?  Maybe.

But despite the pre draft NFL.com scouting reports you cite, NFL teams are not bound by those reports.  During the 2014 draft, NFL teams spoke on who they perceived to be the better prospect at the time.  Caldwell had a choice to make when both were on the board when he traded up to the bottom of the second round that year.  Once again, he chose Allen Robinson at pick 61.

Moncrief was selected almost a full round later, at the 90th overall pick.  Three other WRs were taken over Moncrief after Allen Robinson was selected.

Did the teams who passed on Moncrief make the right decision?  Who knows?

Might Moncrief end up being a more productive WR here than Robinson was?  I sure as hell hope so.

But unless I've missed something in the debate (a distinct possibility since this morning I only focused on the last couple of pages in this thread) I'm not sure what
citing the NFL.com pre draft scouting reports does to advance your argument here.

It does absolutely nothing because pre draft scouting reports mean nothing when players have been in the league for almost 5 years.

(04-05-2018, 08:42 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-05-2018, 08:38 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Earlier in the thread, you indicated that Moncrief was viewed as the better prospect, and you get at it here by citing these scouting reports.

But better by whom?

For our purposes, the one person whose opinion counted at the time was Caldwell.

In 2014, Caldwell traded back up into the bottom of the 2nd round, and when he did, both Allen Robinson and Dante Moncrief were on the board.

Caldwell chose Robinson over Moncrief.

Is it possible that Caldwell liked Moncrief at the time?  Absolutely. 

Is it possible that Caldwell would have made the same trade up for Moncrief had Robinson been off the board?  Maybe.

But despite the pre draft NFL.com scouting reports you cite, NFL teams are not bound by those reports.  During the 2014 draft, NFL teams spoke on who they perceived to be the better prospect at the time.  Caldwell had a choice to make when both were on the board when he traded up to the bottom of the second round that year.  Once again, he chose Allen Robinson at pick 61.

Moncrief was selected almost a full round later, at the 90th overall pick.  Three other WRs were taken over Moncrief after Allen Robinson was selected.

Did the teams who passed on Moncrief make the right decision?  Who knows?

Might Moncrief end up being a more productive WR here than Robinson was?  I sure as hell hope so.

But unless I've missed something in the debate (a distinct possibility since this morning I only focused on the last couple of pages in this thread) I'm not sure what
citing the NFL.com pre draft scouting reports does to advance your argument here.

It does absolutely nothing because pre draft scouting reports mean nothing when players have been in the league for almost 5 years.

I agree completely with this.

In fairness, there are things post draft that impact WR productivity positively and negatively (coaching/scheme, QB, other targets, etc.) But at face value, those things would have appeared to benefit Moncrief more than Robinson, yet Robinson was still more productive.

(04-03-2018, 06:24 PM)Achilles Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-03-2018, 04:41 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.espn.com/blog/jacksonville-ja...-mccardell

Marrone on McCardell working with Moncreif  ^

“There was one time I looked out there and I saw Cole, I saw Westbrook, and I saw Mickens and I said, ‘Holy s---!’ Marrone said. "'I said, ‘Where the hell did all our receivers go?’


Lololol

I thought that was funny too.

I recall when we had Sullivan and we were concerned when he wasn't retained.

But Keenan has been an amazing replacement for Sullivan, and may well end up being the best WR coach in team history.  The results he coaxed out of those young guys were incredible.

Meh, the ones that matter obviously felt he was worth ten million and Arob wasn't worth whatever he was asking for or the tag dollars. I'm sure the team probably offered Arob a better deal than Moncrief but he scoffed at it.

What makes Moncrief a better option at this point? The fact that he wants to play here. Arob clearly did not.