(02-12-2022, 11:08 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 09:28 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Has he lost a step, or is he lost in the glut of targets in Dallas with Gallup, Lamb, Wilson and Schultz?
Agreed. Personally, I love Cooper and would easily give up a pair of third rounders for him. Cooper is an excellent route runner with great hands. That is two areas we lack now. He missed two games last season against the Raiders and Kansas City. The Cowboys lost both games. IMO, he just gets lost in the shuffle of the Cowboys potent passing game. Lamb is the #1 option with his vertical ability and Schultz is starting to become a redzone factor, but Cooper is still the guy they go to when they want to move the chains and pickup key first downs.
(02-12-2022, 11:17 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 11:01 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I think the argument to be made, is that, in this particular scenario? Why would you fork over a 70th overall selection + another 3rd RD Pick for a #2 receiver, when, you could probably use that same value and logic to move up to get a potentially better, younger, and possibly cheaper prospect at the same position? That has the speed and talent to potentially be a number one?
I could see it now. They pull some goofy [BLEEP] off like this and end up passing up on somebody like Metchie III, Justyn Ross, Jahan Dotson or Wan'Dale Robinson and we'll be sitting on the couch probably watching one or two of those guys playing in a play-off game in January.
Assuming if you trade for Cooper you're going to have to sit down and talk contract extension at some point. It's just not ideal IMHO. If you want to trade for a receiver? Again, by logic? Why not fork over numero uno right now to Seattle for D.K Metcalf?
I would easily give up #1 for Metcalf.
Heck. You could talk me into giving up #1 for DJ Moore. I’ve been saying all off season that a blockbuster trade for a true #1 WR is something the Jags need to highly consider. Buffalo with Diggs. Arizona with Hopkins. Browns with OBJ (even though it didn’t work).
Cooper is extremely talented and is consistently open. His main issue in Dallas is that lots of people are open because they are loaded on offense. Some games it was Schultz. Some games it was Lamb. Some games it was the running game and some games it was Cooper. In Jacksonville, it would always be Cooper Time.
The likelyhood that those WRs you talked about being there in the 3rd is low and then your banking on them being as good as Cooper. Again. Also low odds.
I’m just playing the odds game here.
What are Cooper's odds of being "the guy" when he's not surrounded by a strong cast? That's my point. They'll just roll coverage his way, make his life a living hell and he'll just end up being another high volume guy that doesn't amount to much. The goal should be for this offense to LOOK like Dallas on offense. That's what we WANT.
I think they can achieve this by NOT giving up draft picks right now in a good WR class. Also, you're not understanding my logic. If you're going to trade a pair of 3's for Cooper. Why wouldn't you use that same logic to move up to get one of those receivers that have the potential to be better than Cooper?
We need speed, versatility and youth to compliment Lawrence, Robinson and hopefully Etienne. Forking over a pair of 3's in this scenario for a guy that's only proven himself to be a number two at best in two different locations is not a good idea. I think you have to think about a 2 - 3 year window here.
Metcalf makes a [BLEEP] ton of sense. As he's only 24. You have the cap space to extend him. He's clearly shown the ability to break games open. He's a monster overall. If you can land him. Then maybe draft another WR or sign another WR? Cool. I just don't think Cooper is worth a pair of 3's.
(02-12-2022, 11:13 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 09:51 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I think my aproach to Cooper would depend on what Chark does.
If Chark stays, I don't think I make the move for Cooper, though I could go either way with it.
If Chark leaves, I'm more inclined to go for Cooper, as I think he can still separate and we need some experience and ability at WR.
In either event, I'd be mor einclined to go after Amari Cooper than Devante Adams.
Whether Chark leaves or not, I still pursue Cooper. They are two different kinds of receivers. Chark is a big play, speed guy and Cooper is a possession receiver with great hands. Even keeping Chark and getting Cooper does not change my draft plans though. I'm still drafting at least 2 WR's. I'm cleaning house at WR. I don't wanna see Marvin Jones or Laviska Shenault anywhere near the field next season, even in backup roles. I move them if I can, but if I can't, they are on the roster bubble going into the next preseason and they are gonna have to improve massively, in order to make the team.
(02-12-2022, 11:01 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I think the argument to be made, is that, in this particular scenario? Why would you fork over a 70th overall selection + another 3rd RD Pick for a #2 receiver, when, you could probably use that same value and logic to move up to get a potentially better, younger, and possibly cheaper prospect at the same position? That has the speed and talent to potentially be a number one?
I could see it now. They pull some goofy [BLEEP] off like this and end up passing up on somebody like Metchie III, Justyn Ross, Jahan Dotson or Wan'Dale Robinson and we'll be sitting on the couch probably watching one or two of those guys playing in a play-off game in January.
Assuming if you trade for Cooper you're going to have to sit down and talk contract extension at some point. It's just not ideal IMHO. If you want to trade for a receiver? Again, by logic? Why not fork over numero uno right now to Seattle for D.K Metcalf?
If we draft Justyn Ross with his injury history, we might as well flush that pick down the toilet.
Metchie III, Dotson and Robinson were also listed. I think those are guys you can trade up for if you're willing to throw a pair of 3's away for a #2. Which is essentially flushing a pick down a toilet and then making a second trip back to flush another one down since the pain still hurts.
Ross is a nice security blanket for Lawrence with the 2nd pick in RD3 unless he just goes off at the combine and ends up being a steal elsewhere. I think his value needs to be considered when you look at the difference Chase made with Burrow. Having that chemistry is vital.
I’d offer Carolina’s third. If that doesn’t get it done. Add on a conditional 5th next year if he is on the opening roster when the league year starts.
Two 3rd rounders is too rich for me
(02-12-2022, 09:51 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 09:42 AM)Sneakers Wrote: [ -> ]Good point. He's only 27.
I think my aproach to Cooper would depend on what Chark does.
If Chark stays, I don't think I make the move for Cooper, though I could go either way with it.
If Chark leaves, I'm more inclined to go for Cooper, as I think he can still separate and we need some experience and ability at WR.
In either event, I'd be mor einclined to go after Amari Cooper than Devante Adams.
Cooper might fit Pederson’s west coast scheme better than Chark. Chark has talent but I don’t know what he is other than an occasional deep threat when he’s available.
Maybe the second third rd pick dont we have 2. And we would be taking the 22 mil salary also.
(02-12-2022, 12:30 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 09:51 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I think my aproach to Cooper would depend on what Chark does.
If Chark stays, I don't think I make the move for Cooper, though I could go either way with it.
If Chark leaves, I'm more inclined to go for Cooper, as I think he can still separate and we need some experience and ability at WR.
In either event, I'd be mor einclined to go after Amari Cooper than Devante Adams.
Cooper might fit Pederson’s west coast scheme better than Chark. Chark has talent but I don’t know what he is other than an occasional deep threat when he’s available.
Agreed if chark leaves. I think chark when healthy is more than just a deep threat. We barely got to see him w trevor.
Yes I would do it. Cooper was battling an injury last year, still one of the better WRs in the league
(02-12-2022, 11:23 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 11:08 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed. Personally, I love Cooper and would easily give up a pair of third rounders for him. Cooper is an excellent route runner with great hands. That is two areas we lack now. He missed two games last season against the Raiders and Kansas City. The Cowboys lost both games. IMO, he just gets lost in the shuffle of the Cowboys potent passing game. Lamb is the #1 option with his vertical ability and Schultz is starting to become a redzone factor, but Cooper is still the guy they go to when they want to move the chains and pickup key first downs.
(02-12-2022, 11:17 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I would easily give up #1 for Metcalf.
Heck. You could talk me into giving up #1 for DJ Moore. I’ve been saying all off season that a blockbuster trade for a true #1 WR is something the Jags need to highly consider. Buffalo with Diggs. Arizona with Hopkins. Browns with OBJ (even though it didn’t work).
Cooper is extremely talented and is consistently open. His main issue in Dallas is that lots of people are open because they are loaded on offense. Some games it was Schultz. Some games it was Lamb. Some games it was the running game and some games it was Cooper. In Jacksonville, it would always be Cooper Time.
The likelyhood that those WRs you talked about being there in the 3rd is low and then your banking on them being as good as Cooper. Again. Also low odds.
I’m just playing the odds game here.
What are Cooper's odds of being "the guy" when he's not surrounded by a strong cast? That's my point. They'll just roll coverage his way, make his life a living hell and he'll just end up being another high volume guy that doesn't amount to much. The goal should be for this offense to LOOK like Dallas on offense. That's what we WANT.
I think they can achieve this by NOT giving up draft picks right now in a good WR class. Also, you're not understanding my logic. If you're going to trade a pair of 3's for Cooper. Why wouldn't you use that same logic to move up to get one of those receivers that have the potential to be better than Cooper?
We need speed, versatility and youth to compliment Lawrence, Robinson and hopefully Etienne. Forking over a pair of 3's in this scenario for a guy that's only proven himself to be a number two at best in two different locations is not a good idea. I think you have to think about a 2 - 3 year window here.
Metcalf makes a [BLEEP] ton of sense. As he's only 24. You have the cap space to extend him. He's clearly shown the ability to break games open. He's a monster overall. If you can land him. Then maybe draft another WR or sign another WR? Cool. I just don't think Cooper is worth a pair of 3's.
(02-12-2022, 11:13 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Whether Chark leaves or not, I still pursue Cooper. They are two different kinds of receivers. Chark is a big play, speed guy and Cooper is a possession receiver with great hands. Even keeping Chark and getting Cooper does not change my draft plans though. I'm still drafting at least 2 WR's. I'm cleaning house at WR. I don't wanna see Marvin Jones or Laviska Shenault anywhere near the field next season, even in backup roles. I move them if I can, but if I can't, they are on the roster bubble going into the next preseason and they are gonna have to improve massively, in order to make the team.
If we draft Justyn Ross with his injury history, we might as well flush that pick down the toilet.
Metchie III, Dotson and Robinson were also listed. I think those are guys you can trade up for if you're willing to throw a pair of 3's away for a #2. Which is essentially flushing a pick down a toilet and then making a second trip back to flush another one down since the pain still hurts.
Ross is a nice security blanket for Lawrence with the 2nd pick in RD3 unless he just goes off at the combine and ends up being a steal elsewhere. I think his value needs to be considered when you look at the difference Chase made with Burrow. Having that chemistry is vital.
As I said before, adding Cooper and even keeping Chark doesn't change my draft plans at all. I'm still drafting at least 2 WR's, so maybe Cooper doesn't have to be "the guy," but he could be a valuable addition. You're rarely going to get a #1 receiver for a pair of 3rd rounders. I would be determined to upgrade the WR position as a whole. Adding just Cooper doesn't fix anything, but adding him as well as a couple other WR's via the draft could make a big difference. It would just be a 3rd round pick this year and one in 2023. That in no way prevents us from adding a Jahan Dotson, John Metchie or WanDale Robinson if they are available to us and it certainly wouldn't prevent me from drafting them. Amari Cooper is certainly better than 90% of the WR's who will be available in round 3.
I'm not touching Justyn Ross. He had an injury riddled college career and never lived up to the hype. He in no way, should be compared to JaMarr Chase, when it comes to the connection he had to Burrow. It's not even close to being the same thing. Maybe you could make a case if we somehow traded for Tee Higgins, but not Justyn Ross. Higgins was a true #1 receiver for Lawrence at Clemson. Ross seemed to spend more time injured than he did on the field.
Would I trade a 3rd round pick (or 2) for Amari Cooper, a 27 year old proven successful and experienced WR (5 of 7 seasons over 1000 yards receiving) with good speed, routes, and hands, and under contract for another 3 years at $20m per season? $20m per year ranked him in 2021 as the 4th highest paid WR in the league, but quite a bit below Hopkin's $27m as the 1st. My first thought is "yes", as Trevor is gaining a first round caliber weapon (for a 3rd or 2), you get to take over the contract (no upfront dollars for deadcap due to injury, release or trade), and the cap space is available. However, the analytical side of me wants to better understand the value or odds of the 3rd round pick.
An NFL draft study looked at success measured simply as being a starter for at least half of your playing career, a simple measure. According to the 10 year study, for the WR position, taking one in the 1st round has a 58% success rate, 49% in the 2nd round, 25% in the 3rd, 13% in the 4th, 16% in the 5th, 9% in the 6th, and 5% in the 7th. Although I personally tend to value 3rd round picks more highly than 25% (as I am eternally a "glass half full guy"), the study leads me to believe trading 1 or 2 3rd rounders for Cooper is favorable, using the odds as a measure.
Another thought is would I trade 1 or 2 of the Jags historical 3rd round picks for Cooper? For the Jags specifically, 3rd round selections over the past 10 drafts have been: Andre Cisco, Davon Hamilton, Josh Oliver, Quincy Williams, Ronnie Harrison, Dawuane Smoot, Yannick Ngakoue, AJ Cann, Branson Linder, Dwayne Gratz, and Bryan Anger. Just about any combination of 2 of these guys, I would make the trade for Cooper.
So, yes, I would trade either 1 or 2 picks for Cooper. The $20m per year salary is a little rich for his level of field impact (I think $16-17m is closer to value), but the premium is worth it to upgrade this pathetic offense and help Trevor.
(02-12-2022, 03:17 PM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]Would I trade a 3rd round pick (or 2) for Amari Cooper, a 27 year old proven successful and experienced WR (5 of 7 seasons over 1000 yards receiving) with good speed, routes, and hands, and under contract for another 3 years at $20m per season? $20m per year ranked him in 2021 as the 4th highest paid WR in the league, but quite a bit below Hopkin's $27m as the 1st. My first thought is "yes", as Trevor is gaining a first round caliber weapon (for a 3rd or 2), you get to take over the contract (no upfront dollars for deadcap due to injury, release or trade), and the cap space is available. However, the analytical side of me wants to better understand the value or odds of the 3rd round pick.
An NFL draft study looked at success measured simply as being a starter for at least half of your playing career, a simple measure. According to the 10 year study, for the WR position, taking one in the 1st round has a 58% success rate, 49% in the 2nd round, 25% in the 3rd, 13% in the 4th, 16% in the 5th, 9% in the 6th, and 5% in the 7th. Although I personally tend to value 3rd round picks more highly than 25% (as I am eternally a "glass half full guy"), the study leads me to believe trading 1 or 2 3rd rounders for Cooper is favorable, using the odds as a measure.
Another thought is would I trade 1 or 2 of the Jags historical 3rd round picks for Cooper? For the Jags specifically, 3rd round selections over the past 10 drafts have been: Andre Cisco, Davon Hamilton, Josh Oliver, Quincy Williams, Ronnie Harrison, Dawuane Smoot, Yannick Ngakoue, AJ Cann, Branson Linder, Dwayne Gratz, and Bryan Anger. Just about any combination of 2 of these guys, I would make the trade for Cooper.
So, yes, I would trade either 1 or 2 picks for Cooper. The $20m per year salary is a little rich for his level of field impact (I think $16-17m is closer to value), but the premium is worth it to upgrade this pathetic offense and help Trevor.
So you would give $20 million per year plus a 3rd round pick for Cooper. Are there no free agents who will sign for $20 million per year and allow us to keep our 3rd round pick?
(02-12-2022, 03:27 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 03:17 PM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]Would I trade a 3rd round pick (or 2) for Amari Cooper, a 27 year old proven successful and experienced WR (5 of 7 seasons over 1000 yards receiving) with good speed, routes, and hands, and under contract for another 3 years at $20m per season? $20m per year ranked him in 2021 as the 4th highest paid WR in the league, but quite a bit below Hopkin's $27m as the 1st. My first thought is "yes", as Trevor is gaining a first round caliber weapon (for a 3rd or 2), you get to take over the contract (no upfront dollars for deadcap due to injury, release or trade), and the cap space is available. However, the analytical side of me wants to better understand the value or odds of the 3rd round pick.
An NFL draft study looked at success measured simply as being a starter for at least half of your playing career, a simple measure. According to the 10 year study, for the WR position, taking one in the 1st round has a 58% success rate, 49% in the 2nd round, 25% in the 3rd, 13% in the 4th, 16% in the 5th, 9% in the 6th, and 5% in the 7th. Although I personally tend to value 3rd round picks more highly than 25% (as I am eternally a "glass half full guy"), the study leads me to believe trading 1 or 2 3rd rounders for Cooper is favorable, using the odds as a measure.
Another thought is would I trade 1 or 2 of the Jags historical 3rd round picks for Cooper? For the Jags specifically, 3rd round selections over the past 10 drafts have been: Andre Cisco, Davon Hamilton, Josh Oliver, Quincy Williams, Ronnie Harrison, Dawuane Smoot, Yannick Ngakoue, AJ Cann, Branson Linder, Dwayne Gratz, and Bryan Anger. Just about any combination of 2 of these guys, I would make the trade for Cooper.
So, yes, I would trade either 1 or 2 picks for Cooper. The $20m per year salary is a little rich for his level of field impact (I think $16-17m is closer to value), but the premium is worth it to upgrade this pathetic offense and help Trevor.
So you would give $20 million per year plus a 3rd round pick for Cooper. Are there no free agents who will sign for $20 million per year and allow us to keep our 3rd round pick?
Outside of Adams and Godwin, there isn’t a WR on the market worth 20 million.
Both of those players are likely to resign with their respective clubs.
So no. The best way to ensure the Jags get a true #1 WR is to trade for one. It doesn’t have to be Cooper. See what it would take to get Michael Thomas, Ridley or Cooper. Ask around to various other clubs. No one really knew Hopkins or Diggs were available via trade.
(02-12-2022, 03:14 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 11:23 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]What are Cooper's odds of being "the guy" when he's not surrounded by a strong cast? That's my point. They'll just roll coverage his way, make his life a living hell and he'll just end up being another high volume guy that doesn't amount to much. The goal should be for this offense to LOOK like Dallas on offense. That's what we WANT.
I think they can achieve this by NOT giving up draft picks right now in a good WR class. Also, you're not understanding my logic. If you're going to trade a pair of 3's for Cooper. Why wouldn't you use that same logic to move up to get one of those receivers that have the potential to be better than Cooper?
We need speed, versatility and youth to compliment Lawrence, Robinson and hopefully Etienne. Forking over a pair of 3's in this scenario for a guy that's only proven himself to be a number two at best in two different locations is not a good idea. I think you have to think about a 2 - 3 year window here.
Metcalf makes a [BLEEP] ton of sense. As he's only 24. You have the cap space to extend him. He's clearly shown the ability to break games open. He's a monster overall. If you can land him. Then maybe draft another WR or sign another WR? Cool. I just don't think Cooper is worth a pair of 3's.
Metchie III, Dotson and Robinson were also listed. I think those are guys you can trade up for if you're willing to throw a pair of 3's away for a #2. Which is essentially flushing a pick down a toilet and then making a second trip back to flush another one down since the pain still hurts.
Ross is a nice security blanket for Lawrence with the 2nd pick in RD3 unless he just goes off at the combine and ends up being a steal elsewhere. I think his value needs to be considered when you look at the difference Chase made with Burrow. Having that chemistry is vital.
As I said before, adding Cooper and even keeping Chark doesn't change my draft plans at all. I'm still drafting at least 2 WR's, so maybe Cooper doesn't have to be "the guy," but he could be a valuable addition. You're rarely going to get a #1 receiver for a pair of 3rd rounders. I would be determined to upgrade the WR position as a whole. Adding just Cooper doesn't fix anything, but adding him as well as a couple other WR's via the draft could make a big difference. It would just be a 3rd round pick this year and one in 2023. That in no way prevents us from adding a Jahan Dotson, John Metchie or WanDale Robinson if they are available to us and it certainly wouldn't prevent me from drafting them. Amari Cooper is certainly better than 90% of the WR's who will be available in round 3.
I'm not touching Justyn Ross. He had an injury riddled college career and never lived up to the hype. He in no way, should be compared to JaMarr Chase, when it comes to the connection he had to Burrow. It's not even close to being the same thing. Maybe you could make a case if we somehow traded for Tee Higgins, but not Justyn Ross. Higgins was a true #1 receiver for Lawrence at Clemson. Ross seemed to spend more time injured than he did on the field.
I don't know where this perception of Ross being injured is coming from with you. He missed one year of football. You make it sound like this guy is Mr. Glass or something. Don't get it. I am going to make a case for Ross with Lawrence. Clemson ran an RPO with an inside zone blocking scheme. It's very much the same philosophy and approach that Pederson has in the NFL on offense. Also, Ross was missing in 2020 when Lawrence needed him. Granted, it was a shortened year due to Covid. However, you could tell he was missing his connection on the outside that he had. Probably would have been the difference in that Sugar Bowl loss to Ohio State.
He (Ross) played three years in total, just like Higgins. Higgins had 37 games at Clemson. Ross had 38 games at Clemson. Higgins had 135 catches at Clemson. Ross had 158 catches at Clemson. Higgins had 2448 yards receiving at Clemson. Ross had 2379 yards receiving at Clemson. Higgins had 27 TD's. Ross had 20 TD's. The only reason Ross' numbers weren't as good in 2021 was because he was coming off an injury and having to work with a new look offense missing Lawrence and Etienne. Could be argued that Ross would have had a better overall career at Clemson had he been in a better situation.
He's a great value if he's there in RD3. He'll probably push his stock up to RD2 if he posts good numbers at the combine. But, this "riddled with injuries" narrative is false.
(02-12-2022, 03:37 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 03:27 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]So you would give $20 million per year plus a 3rd round pick for Cooper. Are there no free agents who will sign for $20 million per year and allow us to keep our 3rd round pick?
Outside of Adams and Godwin, there isn’t a WR on the market worth 20 million.
Both of those players are likely to resign with their respective clubs.
So no. The best way to ensure the Jags get a true #1 WR is to trade for one. It doesn’t have to be Cooper. See what it would take to get Michael Thomas, Ridley or Cooper. Ask around to various other clubs. No one really knew Hopkins or Diggs were available via trade.
Personally, I would still ask the Bengals about trading for Tee Higgins. It's a longshot, but what's the worst that can happen, they could say no?
(02-12-2022, 03:59 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 03:37 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Outside of Adams and Godwin, there isn’t a WR on the market worth 20 million.
Both of those players are likely to resign with their respective clubs.
So no. The best way to ensure the Jags get a true #1 WR is to trade for one. It doesn’t have to be Cooper. See what it would take to get Michael Thomas, Ridley or Cooper. Ask around to various other clubs. No one really knew Hopkins or Diggs were available via trade.
Personally, I would still ask the Bengals about trading for Tee Higgins. It's a longshot, but what's the worst that can happen, they could say no?
They can't afford to do that. Would be foolish. He's really made a difference in these last two play-off games for them with Chase getting all of the attention. 14 catches for 209 yards already in his play-off debut. He's going to have some opportunities to really shine tomorrow night with Ramsey on Chase.
(02-12-2022, 03:38 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 03:14 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]As I said before, adding Cooper and even keeping Chark doesn't change my draft plans at all. I'm still drafting at least 2 WR's, so maybe Cooper doesn't have to be "the guy," but he could be a valuable addition. You're rarely going to get a #1 receiver for a pair of 3rd rounders. I would be determined to upgrade the WR position as a whole. Adding just Cooper doesn't fix anything, but adding him as well as a couple other WR's via the draft could make a big difference. It would just be a 3rd round pick this year and one in 2023. That in no way prevents us from adding a Jahan Dotson, John Metchie or WanDale Robinson if they are available to us and it certainly wouldn't prevent me from drafting them. Amari Cooper is certainly better than 90% of the WR's who will be available in round 3.
I'm not touching Justyn Ross. He had an injury riddled college career and never lived up to the hype. He in no way, should be compared to JaMarr Chase, when it comes to the connection he had to Burrow. It's not even close to being the same thing. Maybe you could make a case if we somehow traded for Tee Higgins, but not Justyn Ross. Higgins was a true #1 receiver for Lawrence at Clemson. Ross seemed to spend more time injured than he did on the field.
I don't know where this perception of Ross being injured is coming from with you. He missed one year of football. You make it sound like this guy is Mr. Glass or something. Don't get it. I am going to make a case for Ross with Lawrence. Clemson ran an RPO with an inside zone blocking scheme. It's very much the same philosophy and approach that Pederson has in the NFL on offense. Also, Ross was missing in 2020 when Lawrence needed him. Granted, it was a shortened year due to Covid. However, you could tell he was missing his connection on the outside that he had. Probably would have been the difference in that Sugar Bowl loss to Ohio State.
He (Ross) played three years in total, just like Higgins. Higgins had 37 games at Clemson. Ross had 38 games at Clemson. Higgins had 135 catches at Clemson. Ross had 158 catches at Clemson. Higgins had 2448 yards receiving at Clemson. Ross had 2379 yards receiving at Clemson. Higgins had 27 TD's. Ross had 20 TD's. The only reason Ross' numbers weren't as good in 2021 was because he was coming off an injury and having to work with a new look offense missing Lawrence and Etienne. Could be argued that Ross would have had a better overall career at Clemson had he been in a better situation.
He's a great value if he's there in RD3. He'll probably push his stock up to RD2 if he posts good numbers at the combine. But, this "riddled with injuries" narrative is false.
Ross missed all of 2020 with a serious neck injury where many thought his career was over and last season, he played only 10 games, because he got injured again. This time it was a fractured foot. Ross' stats have continued to fall since his freshman season. He is fast and has good size. That's pretty much his entire game. It's all straight line speed. He's not a good route runner and even though he shows speed, he rarely gets separation and his yards per catch have fallen off a cliff. He's injury prone and when he is healthy, he's just not very good.
The difference is that Higgins got better and better and continued to grow into an NFL receiver. Ross consistently got worse and became "just a guy." I don't care if he's available in the 5th or 6th round, I'm not wasting a draft pick on the guy. There are at least 20-25 receivers I would take ahead of him.
(02-12-2022, 04:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 03:59 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I would still ask the Bengals about trading for Tee Higgins. It's a longshot, but what's the worst that can happen, they could say no?
They can't afford to do that. Would be foolish. He's really made a difference in these last two play-off games for them with Chase getting all of the attention. 14 catches for 209 yards already in his play-off debut. He's going to have some opportunities to really shine tomorrow night with Ramsey on Chase.
Again, it's a longshot, but what would it hurt to inquire?
(02-12-2022, 04:15 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (02-12-2022, 04:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]Ross missed all of 2020 with a serious neck injury where many thought his career was over and last season, he played only 10 games, because he got injured again. This time it was a fractured foot. Ross' stats have continued to fall since his freshman season. He is fast and has good size. That's pretty much his entire game. It's all straight line speed. He's not a good route runner and even though he shows speed, he rarely gets separation and his yards per catch have fallen off a cliff. He's injury prone and when he is healthy, he's just not very good.
The difference is that Higgins got better and better and continued to grow into an NFL receiver. Ross consistently got worse and became "just a guy." I don't care if he's available in the 5th or 6th round, I'm not wasting a draft pick on the guy. There are at least 20-25 receivers I would take ahead of him.
![[Image: c290a4cd-4463-4b28-aff3-8dcea89d2ff7_text.gif]](https://y.yarn.co/c290a4cd-4463-4b28-aff3-8dcea89d2ff7_text.gif)
That's cool. It's just a healthy debate.
Wrs that catch the ball would be so unbelievable to finally be able to enjoy as a jags fan.
Cooper isn't worth his salary plus a 3rd.
Amari Cooper will most likely be a cap casualty because the Cowboys need cap space to re-sign Gregory, Schultz, etc.
Cooper would be ok as a #2 WR for $10 M a year. No one is going to trade for him and his bloated salary.
(02-13-2022, 11:33 AM)navyjagfan Wrote: [ -> ]Amari Cooper will most likely be a cap casualty because the Cowboys need cap space to re-sign Gregory, Schultz, etc.
Cooper would be ok as a #2 WR for $10 M a year. No one is going to trade for him and his bloated salary.
Agreed the cowboys are 21 mill over the cap. Obviously they got the sportswriter to write that article. Cooper has a cap hit of 22 million in 2022. In a perfect Cowboy world someone, anyone would step up and give them 2 3's and take their mistake and make it their own. There will be a lot of these type articles as the fee agent season begins and the draft draws closer. Most are the current team "leaking" to a sportswriter to write an article in exchange for access later. I am sure some sports writer asked our coach about Cooper. I am sure he said "yea, a guy like that would help us". I am also sure he didn't say he would give 2 3's for him...lol
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/3o85xD52kXcC7KlTKE/giphy.gif)